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Thread: Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

  1. #271
    Rinkside
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    Question:
    So with simultaneous inflation of AS's step sequence from level 3 to 4 and deflation of YK's from level 4 to 3, the bias results in a net difference of 1.2 points in BV (not counting GOE)?
    AS gains 0.6 over her actual program; YK loses 0.6?
    (Not sure how the points are counted)

  2. #272
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    I have no proper knowledge to fully appreciate BoP's wonderful work. But, comparing the two step sequences, the first thing I could notice is that the number of movements are quite different: 32(=29+3) movements for Sotnikova and 51(=49+2) movements for Kim. Is this normal? What is a typical number of movements? If thirty something is enough to get level 4, what is the motivation to do extra almost twenty movements? Is this just for better choreography?

  3. #273
    Custom Title BlackPack's Avatar
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    I don't know if this has been posted already.

    This is a side-by-side top view of Yuna's and Adelina's LPs. It seemed to me that Adelina skated faster than Yuna. And before anyone claims that Yuna's choreography and transitions are more difficult and intricate - not really. Yuna's Tango isn't at the level of Danse Macabre.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwFuocB9GHE

  4. #274
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    My impression of this video was the opposite. I thought Yuna Kim had superior speed and ice coverage (which is really about all that can be seen from the video).

  5. #275
    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8in View Post
    There is a difference between fs pr reps saying "it was totally fair!" so as not to discredit the sport that they profit from, and anyone actually endorsing Sotnikova's skating.
    Great. So they've been lying all those years when crying about S&P, B&K etc., etc.,
    Thank you for confirming the obvious.

  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    I don't know if this has been posted already.

    This is a side-by-side top view of Yuna's and Adelina's LPs. It seemed to me that Adelina skated faster than Yuna. And before anyone claims that Yuna's choreography and transitions are more difficult and intricate - not really. Yuna's Tango isn't at the level of Danse Macabre.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwFuocB9GHE
    I thought Yuna skated faster and also with better ice coverage. And i still don't get why Adelina got a level 4 on her stsq while Yuna only got a level 3? please watch again, during the step sequence, Yuna didn't do much crossovers - - Adelina should've gotten an edge call on her flutz as well, I didn't mean to offence Adelina but Yuna should've gotten 1st place...

  7. #277
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ectomorph View Post
    Question:
    So with simultaneous inflation of AS's step sequence from level 3 to 4 and deflation of YK's from level 4 to 3, the bias results in a net difference of 1.2 points in BV (not counting GOE)?
    AS gains 0.6 over her actual program; YK loses 0.6?
    (Not sure how the points are counted)
    Net difference of 1.2 points in BV and 0.95 points in GOE, so 2.15 points total.

    And that's if we assume Sotnikova deserved those GOE grades. She had shakier edges, less flow in the movement, inferior upper body movement, and significantly less movement directly to the music...and yet was graded higher in GOE than Yu-Na for the footwork.

  8. #278
    Hic Rhodus, hic salta
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    Thank you, Blades of Passion, for your careful, detailed analysis.

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    As requested, I have written down all of the movements in Yu-Na Kim's LP footwork sequence:

    1.) Toe step, counterclockwise
    2.) Back edge pull with free foot toepick push, clockwise
    2.) Mohawk, clockwise
    3.) Waltz hop, clockwise
    4.) Cross step, clockwise
    5.) Change of edge from inside to outside with free foot in quick ina position, counterclockwise
    6.) Change edge from outside to inside with free foot placed on ice
    7.) Rocker, clockwise
    8.) Bracket, clockwise
    9.) Rocker, clockwise
    10.) Cross Roll, counterclockwise
    11.) Rocker, counterclockwise
    12). Change edge from outside to inside
    13.) Loop, counterclockwise
    14.) Full turn on ice while changing feet, counterclockwise
    15.) Toe steps, clockwise
    16.) Rocker, clockwise
    17.) Cross step, counterclockwise
    18.) Choctaw executed with a hop, clockwise
    19.) Twizzle, clockwise
    20.) Chasse, clockwise
    21.) Choctaw, counterclockwise
    22.) Top hop, counterclockwise
    23.) Twizzle, counterclockwise (x2)
    24.) Rocker, counterclockwise
    25.) Edge change from inside to outside
    26.) Three turn, counterclockwise
    27.) Brief back inside two foot glide with back free foot mini-kick
    28.) Choctaw, clockwise
    29.) Three turn, clockwise
    30.) Loop, clockwise
    31.) Toe hop, clockwise
    32.) Chasse, counterclockwise
    33.) Curve with change of edge, clockwise
    34.) Bracket, counterclockwise
    35.) Cross step, clockwise
    36.) Cross step, counterclockwise
    37.) Half turn and edge change from inside to outside with free foot push, clockwise
    38.) Toe step, clockwise
    39.) Counter, counterclockwise
    40.) Twizzle, counterclockwise (x2)
    41.) Three turn, counterclockwise
    41.) Rocker, counterclockwise
    42.) Half turn and edge change from inside to outside with free foot placed on ice, counterclockwise
    43.) Mohawk, counterclockwise
    44.) Illusion turn, counterclockwise
    45.) Chasse, counterclockwise
    46.) Toe step, clockwise
    47.) Cross step, counterclockwise
    48.) Chasse, counterclockwise
    49.) Toe step, counterclockwise

    She has 5 types of turns in both directions - Rocker, Bracket, Twizzle, Loop, Three
    She had 5 types of steps in both directions - Toe hop, Toe step, Chasse, Mohawk, Choctaw
    She has full body rotation covering at least 1/3 of the pattern in total for each rotational direction.
    She most definitely has upper body movements for at least 1/3 of the pattern.
    She has 3 different combinations of three difficult turns executed with a clear rhythm.

    This footwork sequence is clearly Level 4.
    Bravo Bravo!

    I wish everyone can talk like you, and stop labelling people as xx haters.

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Net difference of 1.2 points in BV and 0.95 points in GOE, so 2.15 points total.

    And that's if we assume Sotnikova deserved those GOE grades. She had shakier edges, less flow in the movement, inferior upper body movement, and significantly less movement directly to the music...and yet was graded higher in GOE than Yu-Na for the footwork.
    Thanks very much BoP for your analysis.

    Just to work out for myself, GOEs are factored differently according to step sequence base levels right? i.e/

    +3 is worth 2.1 GOE (30% reduced) for base level 4 step sequences,
    +3 is worth only 1.5 GOE (50% reduced) for base level 3 steps sequences

    In other words, step levels directly affect BOTH the base value AND the GOE factoring value.
    A step sequence level 4 GOE at +2 (worth 1.4 GOE), is worth only 0.1 away from a step sequence done level 3 GOE done superbly at + 3 (worth 1.5 in GOE).

    Sotnikova got 1x +1, 4x +2s, 4x +3s. Taking off upper and low score give her an average +2.429 with level 4 factoring (GOE reduced at 30%) = 1.7
    Kim got 6x +2s, 3x +3s. Taking off upper and lower score off give her an average of +2.286 with reduced to level 3 factoring (GOE at reduced 50%) = 1.14

    -----------

    If Sotnikova got level 3, Kim got level 4, and assuming the same GOE still apply then the score will work out

    KIM stsq BV 3.9, GOE 1.6, Total 5.5 ( +1.06)
    Sotnikova stsq BV 3.3, GOE 1.21 Total 4.51 (-1.29)

    The score difference works out 2.35 (did I calculate wrong somewhere?).

    It is interesting, Sotnikova got a +1 as one of her GOEs.
    FYI, this is what she got early in the season at Cup of China, stsq level 2, (7x +1, 3x +2), 2.6 BV, 0.57 GOE, TES 3.17
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._FS_Scores.pdf
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOjo6qWabKM
    Alla SHEKHOVTSEVA also judged there as she did with every single one of her competitions this season. (Cup of China, TEB, GPF, Euro, Olympics)

  11. #281
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    Big thanks, Blades of Passion, for your convincing analysis. Such an Explanation as yours was reallly desired for many fs fans.
    I understand now much better why I doubted the given Levels.

  12. #282
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    Another Yunabot thread full of complete garbage

    If one were to gather together all of the Yunabot trolling in to one place, not just on this forum, but everywhere else as well, and print it all off on to paper, then there would be enough toilet paper to last everyone on the planet for the next 30 years. What a bunch of sore losers

    This thread should have been placed into the judging conspiracy thread. I thought it was decided that all of the evil/trolling should be confined to one place.

    ADELINA SOTNIKOVA - OLYMPIC CHAMPION

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mao88 View Post
    Another Yunabot thread full of complete garbage

    If one were to gather together all of the Yunabot trolling in to one place, not just on this forum, but everywhere else as well, and print it all off on to paper, then there would be enough toilet paper to last everyone on the planet for the next 30 years. What a bunch of sore losers

    This thread should have been placed into the judging conspiracy thread. I thought it was decided that all of the evil/trolling should be confined to one place.

    ADELINA SOTNIKOVA - OLYMPIC CHAMPION
    Excuse me, this thread was just meant to analyse the step sequence objectively, but it's people like you spreading the hate actually.

  14. #284
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    Thank you for your time and effort, BOP.

    For me, it's even wierder now, how on earth Tech panel misjudged Yuna's stsq level, given that there were 20 more movements in hers than Sot's. It does not need extra 30 secs to figure out which one's more complicated.

    And somebody is showing us what it means by "ultimate trolling" once again.

  15. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPack View Post
    I don't know if this has been posted already.

    This is a side-by-side top view of Yuna's and Adelina's LPs. It seemed to me that Adelina skated faster than Yuna. And before anyone claims that Yuna's choreography and transitions are more difficult and intricate - not really. Yuna's Tango isn't at the level of Danse Macabre.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwFuocB9GHE
    I saw otherwise. Yuna skates faster and has better ice coverage.

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