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Thread: Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    My coach (who is a US Regional-level TS and receives clarifications constantly via email and goes to tech school at least 1X per year) understands the rule to be as BoP does - 5 and 3 in EACH direction - when constructing step sequences for her skaters.

    In addition, here is the link to USFS for the rules (only because it's easier to find than the correct communication on ISU's page):
    1) Minimum variety (Level 1), simple variety (Level 2), variety (Level 3), complexity (Level 4) of turns and steps throughout (compulsory)
    2) Rotations (turns, steps) in either direction (left and right) with full body rotation covering at least 1/3 of the pattern in total for each rotational direction
    3) Use of upper body movements for at least 1/3 of the pattern
    4) Two different combinations of 3 difficult turns (rockers, counters, brackets, twizzles, loops) quickly executed with a clear rhythm within the sequence

    With clarification below:
    Types of turns (executed on one foot) : three turns, twizzles, brackets, loops, counters, rockers.
    Types of steps (executed on one foot whenever possible) : toe steps, chasses, mohawks, choctaws, curves with change of edge, cross-rolls, running steps.
    Minimum variety must include at least 5 turns & 2 steps, none of the types can be counted more than twice.
    Simple variety must include at least 7 turns & 4 steps, none of the types can be counted more than twice.
    Variety must include at least 9 turns and 4 steps, none of the types can be counted more than twice.
    Complexity must include at least 5 different types of turns and 3 different types of steps all
    executed at least once in both directions.

    Use of upper body movements means the visible use for a combined total of at least 1/3 of the pattern of the step sequence any movements of the arms, head and torso that have an effect on the balance of the main body core.
    Two combinations of difficult turns are considered to be the same if they consist of the same turns done in the same order, on the same edge and on the same foot.

    Source:
    http://www.usfsa.org/content/2013-14...Difficulty.pdf
    thanks for the info.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesWay View Post
    Now if you weren't so biased, you would have said "but to show whether or not", instead of "but as more evidence that".
    I was completely unbiased before the final results were tallied. Now, I believe based upon everything I've seen and since discovered that the results were wrong. So am I biased to the point that Adelina does not deserve the gold? Yes, because I believe it to be true. Am I prejudiced against Adelina? Not at all. She's a great young talent, but has a lot to improve on before I see her worthy of what she just accomplished. Is this being prejudiced or hateful to Adelina? No. I'm just stating what I believe to be true from what I've observed. I don't think people have any understanding about what the word "hate" truly means.

  3. #78
    Best comeback EVOR! zamboni step's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    You are purposefully misreading the rule to conform to you hatred of stonikova and her win! This thread is illegitimate lies.
    I'm sorry, but no, you do not get to talk about hate when you said you hoped Sotnikova would bomb Nationals. And criticised her every step of the way to this title. Now you're jumping on the band wagon, when I actually agree it was an undeserved win. Stop being a hypocrite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    The rule actually reads: "Complexity must include at least 5 different types of turns and 3 different types of steps all executed at least once in both directions."
    I think the key is in the wording of "at least 5" different types. You said earlier:

    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I thought the rule meant that you had to do 5 different turns clockwise and 5 different turns counterclockwise...
    Which would make for a total of 10. So if you went with the bare minimum of "at least 5" types, you would have to do each type in both directions in order to have 10.... right??

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    Quote Originally Posted by I♥Yuna View Post
    So if you went with the bare minimum of "at least 5" types, you would have to do each type in both directions in order to have 10.... right??
    She did 6 types (which is "at least 5" types) AND 5 in each direction. She did do 10 according to BoP's analysis, it's just unclear whether she should be penalized for showing greater variety by doing all 6.

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    it seems any analysis or criticism of adelina's performance is labeled as anti adelina propaganda composed by yuna ubers. her performance is in question, which is why her performance is being analyzed in detail. if you have a problem with yuna, carolina, etc., etc.'s performance, do the analysis yourself. there's no rule that says you must analyze every skater's performance if you're going to analyze one. adelina's performance is the one that seems marked most incorrectly (that actually matters for the podium, cough yulia), so it is being looked at.

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    Why is it BoP's burden to analyse Yuna's step sequences? No one gave BoP a job or paid him to do such thing. He volunteered and analyzed one skater's incorrectly marked performance and for that I am thankful. If he did Yuna's then what? What next? Why wouldn't these people demand Carolina's steps to be analyzed by BoP? Then Mao's, Gracie's, Yulia's.. Those who are determined to discredit BoP's work will not stop. I've learned of this disruption tactic : crowd the thread and repeat the same charge again and again until the speakers are exhausted and silenced.

    Again, as much as I would love to read analysis on other skaters' steps, we should not be so confused that it is one person's obligation. This Tu Quoque tactic should stop. Everyone can bring her/his own analysis and rebuttals of any skater's performance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kslr0816 View Post
    adelina's performance is the one that seems marked most incorrectly (that actually matters for the podium, cough yulia), so it is being looked at.
    This is exactly why you should look at all the performances, because you think one "seems" to be marked the most incorrectly without even considering how the others are marked.

  9. #84
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    The rule actually reads: "Complexity must include at least 5 different types of turns and 3 different types of steps all executed at least once in both directions." I've copied and pasted from page 9 of your link. The comma you added and the bolding which would clarify the rule do not exist in the document. If instead you added a comma after "once", any 5 counterclockwise turns and 5 any counterclockwise turns would meet the requirement. There is in fact no comma so the rule isn't clear. Again, why don't you take the time to do the same analysis on Yuna and see if her steps would be level 4 under either interpretation?
    A comma in any of those places does not change the meaning of the sentence.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    You are purposefully misreading the rule to conform to you hatred of stonikova and her win! This thread is illegitimate lies.
    I don't hate Sotnikova, you're the one who is making illegitimate lies. Why are you so defensive? Clearly you're trying to push some kind of agenda or want to hide something.

    Neither of you seem to understand competitive skating rules. All competitive skating choreographers have understood the rule as such; this rule has been in place since the 2010-2011 season (even earlier than that, actually, but I can't recall exactly how long off the top of my head). That's why see you 5 different types of turns and 3 different types of steps all attempted in both directions in every Level 4 footwork sequence for the ENTIRE past 4 seasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by usethis2 View Post
    Those who are determined to discredit BoP's work will not stop.
    No one is discrediting BoP's hard work. Based on the analysis presented, a person could judge it level 3 or level 4 depending on how the rule is read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zamboni step View Post
    I'm sorry, but no, you do not get to talk about hate when you said you hoped Sotnikova would bomb Nationals. And criticised her every step of the way to this title. Now you're jumping on the band wagon, when I actually agree it was an undeserved win. Stop being a hypocrite.
    She never once did her fs cleanly or even close to cleanly before the Olympics! She rarely ever did her 3 jump combo or messed up in some other way on her two triple flip plan. I was thinking that would continue but it didn't! The Russia fed was right to in keeping faith in sotnikova and I was incorrect! Now that she gave the best performance in 2014 ladies olympics competiton she deserves to be defended from outrageous lies and distortions and extreme hate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    This is exactly why you should look at all the performances, because you think one "seems" to be marked the most incorrectly without even considering how the others are marked.
    maybe if the scores were based on some kind of ranking scale your comment would make sense. not in this case. you can analyze each performance individually thanks to how the points are structured. what you think of another skater's performance doesn't change the scoring of another's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    NEITHER of you understand competitive skating, clearly. All competitive skating choreographers have understood the rule as such, this rule has been in place since the 2010-2011 season. That's why see you 5 different types of turns and 3 different types of steps all attempted in both directions in every Level 4 footwork sequence for the ENTIRE past 4 seasons.
    Apparently Adelina's choreographer didn't get the memo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kslr0816 View Post
    maybe if the scores were based on some kind of ranking scale your comment would make sense. not in this case. you can analyze each performance individually thanks to how the points are structured. what you think of another skater's performance doesn't change the scoring of another's.
    You're the one who compares the programs, saying one "seems" more incorrectly scored than the others. Right?

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    You don't understand English apparently. A comma in any of those places does not change the meaning of the sentence.



    I don't hate Sotnikova, you're the one who is making illegitimate lies. Why are you so defensive? Clearly you're trying to push some kind of agenda or want to hide something.

    NEITHER of you understand competitive skating, clearly. All competitive skating choreographers have understood the rule as such, this rule has been in place since the 2010-2011 season. That's why see you 5 different types of turns and 3 different types of steps all attempted in both directions in every Level 4 footwork sequence for the ENTIRE past 4 seasons.
    No. That's just the way you are choosing to read it. You open a thread built on a distortion and then complain when people oppose your distortion which just so happens to conform to your opinion that sotnikova didn't deserve to win. You can't find legitimate ways to present Yuna as the real winner so you just distort and lie.

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