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Thread: Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

  1. #901
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooper View Post
    Don't be ridiculous. Don't you think Chihee Rhee planted a couple of big ol sloppy ones on Kim in Vancouver, if only out of the cameras' view? What's good for Korea is good for Russia.

  2. #902
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    Ah yes, and that falls in line with the long history of Korean figure skating judges rigging the sport in favor of their own competitors. God, just think of all those unworthy South Korean figure skaters who have stolen points from the Russians. It is truly a travesty!

  3. #903
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8in View Post
    Ah yes, and that falls in line with the long history of Korean figure skating judges rigging the sport in favor of their own competitors. God, just think of all those unworthy South Korean figure skaters who have stolen points from the Russians. It is truly a travesty!
    Do you deny that the Korean federation skating official sat on both SP and LP panels in Vancouver?

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    No, I know. Adelina definitely should have won in Vancouver. It was an outrage!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8in View Post
    starting at 3:55 she goes from spiral, turns her skate on one foot, changes of edge twice---you know in an appreciable way that Adelina appears to be incapable of, jumps off the ice twice---once turning 360 degrees from her left then again from her right, throws her left leg up, then throws her opposite leg up spinning down, then does a sort of two foot twizzle, glides back, then does two cross overs as she's continuing the choreography through her torso. This starts at 3:55, and she is jumping into the axle at 4:10---meaning she does it all in 15 seconds to the rhythm of the hammering piano keys. It counts towards the entrance in her jump.
    You do realize what you're describing is part of her ChSq1 and not a transition, right? You probably won't understand what I'm saying if I tell you that an element is not a transition, but basically she earns a base value and GOE for those moves so she doesn't also get additional credit for it in PCS. One the ChSq1 ends, she does two back crossovers, then a 2A, then a spin.

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    Part of the criteria for GOE bonus is difficult entry into an element. If elements are woven together that tightly they make those elements more difficult, and thus it should enhance the GOE. And yes, of course all this matters to PCS because the whole point of PCS is to award programs that are well woven together. The fact that Yuna's last elements were that tightly packed enhances the skate, and makes it more difficult.

  7. #907
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8in View Post
    No, I know. Adelina definitely should have won in Vancouver. It was an outrage!!
    So in other words, you feel it's all right for skating federation officials to sit on panels judging native skaters, as long as they vote your preferred skater to the gold medal? Good to know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    If you consider (starting at 4:06) doing two back crossovers into a 2A is "packed choreography" and "complex turns" then I suppose you aren't ever going to appreciate Adelina's actual packed choreography and complex turns before her jumps. You don't have to agree with Adelina's win but it is silly to act like Yuna's 2A at the end of the program was so amazing because she did two back crossovers before and a spin after.
    And to think, I had already posted an animated gif a while back showing Adelina's and Yuna's lead-in to their (stand-alone) double axels, side by side:

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/120676...n/photostream/

    It's easy to see that Yuna only does one back crossover during that part (at 4:08 in the previously linked video). Also, what is Adelina doing at the same timeframe? She's already in her prep position for the Axel. That's the claimed "actual packed choreography" right there. Adelina takes a full second longer than Yuna to prep for the jump but it's Adelina that gets credited with packed choreography according to some posters on this forum.

  9. #909
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8in View Post
    Part of the criteria for GOE bonus is difficult entry into an element. If elements are woven together that tightly they make those elements more difficult, and thus it should enhance the GOE. And yes, of course all this matters to PCS because the whole point of PCS is to award programs that are well woven together. The fact that Yuna's last elements were that tightly packed enhances the skate, and makes it more difficult.
    So when Adelina does these things her program is busy, but when Yuna does it that make it a tightly-packed enhancement.

    There was no difficult entrance the the 2A. The footwork stopped and she did strokes into the jump. Doing back crossovers directly before the jump negates whatever came before it, particularly when it is another credited element. Although I'm sure you think she should get more GOE on that spin because she did a 2A before.

  10. #910
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    Adelina Sotnikova is the 2014 Olympic champion!

    That's the footnote of one of the users at fsunet. And after a while I have started to agree with the mood. The only weapon against the so called analysis is to stick to the fact.

  11. #911
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    Um no I never said Adelina's program was busy. I said her last 4 jumping passes have almost 0 choreography or foot work that she is ostensibly an expert at. She designed her program to be jump heavy in the last half an collect TES after a fairly basic footwork sequence. But figure skating is not only assessed based on TES (unless you are a Sochi judge and weight PCS within hundredths of a decimal point). Skaters who put work into conveying emotion, and putting out a strong performance deserve to be rewarded for such.
    *And yes it is difficult to enter a 2A immediately after doing difficult footwork. Not sure what is so controversial about that notion. It is pretty obvious.

  12. #912
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    So when Adelina does these things her program is busy, but when Yuna does it that make it a tightly-packed enhancement.

    There was no difficult entrance the the 2A. The footwork stopped and she did strokes into the jump. Doing back crossovers directly before the jump negates whatever came before it, particularly when it is another credited element. Although I'm sure you think she should get more GOE on that spin because she did a 2A before.
    sk8in is correct as they are talking about intricacy of elements. Yes, when elements are seamlessly linked together, they elevate the level of intricacy aspect of transitions. Why do you think this official ISU video on transitions uses Yu-Na's sequence of Ina Bauer+2A+spin as an example? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnXGtSK9hCw#t=14 If only the Ina Bauer mattered, they would exclude showing the 2A/spin.

    In her Sochi Olympics FS, Yu-Na did ONE crossover after the footwork into the 2A and yes, that is indeed a set-up with a higher level of difficulty than the normal. I would not say it is the most difficult entrance ever, but it is wrong to say that there is no difficult entrance at all. No difficulty whatsoever would be a telegraphed set-up, such as you see the men do with their 3As or some other ladies skaters do with their 2A.

  13. #913
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaylee View Post
    In her Sochi Olympics FS, Yu-Na did ONE crossover after the footwork into the 2A and yes, that is indeed a set-up with a higher level of difficulty than the normal. I would not say it is the most difficult entrance ever, but it is wrong to say that there is no difficult entrance at all. No difficulty whatsoever would be a telegraphed set-up, such as you see the men do with their 3As or some other ladies skaters do with their 2A.
    At 4:06-4:07, after the steps, she rebalances herself on two feet, then does her crossovers into the 2A. That isn't a difficult jump entrance when you go from gliding on two feet into a back crossover into a jump. It's not telegraphed but it isn't a difficult entrance either.

  14. #914
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    still preparing a thesis or expecting the Nobel Prize in chemistry?

  15. #915
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    If only Yuna had trained with the great Russian ice dancers. Then maybe she would know a thing or two about seamlessly incorporating elements!

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