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Thread: Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

  1. #991
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    ^I agree with the opinion that Yuna was flat and detached, and that has nothing to do with how avant garde Adio's choreography may or may not be.

    However, I disagree with posters who say that Yuna should've been as spunky and excited as Adelina. Adios Nonino is a mourning song so it calls for a more subdued delivery. The proper mood for Adios should be "soulful".

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    The major issue with the idea of "Yuna was flat," or "she wasn't her best/lacked Adelina's energy" etc, is that this is not criteria for the scoring system. If you're going to critique Yuna's presentation, you should base it on observations, not vacuous 'feelings' about it. I agree with Sandra Bezic who said her choreography made for an extremely emotionally nuanced performance. I admire how Yuna planned both these programs with the theme of saying farewell to the sport. She thought about the context of her career, and not just that individual competition, which demonstrates integrity and confidence. I definitely prefer it to some cheesy cliche 'tango' or whatever where she's cha-chaing across the ice with a big *** flower in her hair or whatever.

  3. #993
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilahozi View Post
    ^I agree with the opinion that Yuna was flat and detached, and that has nothing to do with how avant garde Adio's choreography may or may not be.
    However, I disagree with posters who say that Yuna should've been as spunky and excited as Adelina. Adios Nonino is a mourning song so it calls for a more subdued delivery. The proper mood for Adios should be "soulful".
    Personally I think Yuna was put under immense pressure. She was the one who skated last. The crowd were extremely hostile. So that's why she was kinda off. For her to take the ice and skate like that, surely a deserving champion. The problem I have with her free skate is I still feel so off even after 5 times watching it.

    I don't think she should've showed excitement or the attitude "die for the gold" like Adelina. Yuna has her own style/class and she could have staked much better than that. The thing is it just happens to have many minuses (the choreography, the music, the atmosphere of the audience...) to the overall.

    David Wilson was never my favourite choreographer. His works recently are all miss. What a pity that all the top skaters are so reliable on him.
    PChan, Javi, Yuzuru... and Yuna. Seriously they should have dumb him for other choreographers. I can't tell you how much I disappointed how he got all the long free skates this and last season for PChan and Yuzuru!! Extremely lackluster. That's why I said Yuna should've stick with him for so long.

    I hope David Wilson will not kill off all the excitement of next season's long programs.

    And I agree with Mathman, Adios Nonino was not a good choice for OGM. It's not judge-friendly. Yuna's strategy was not bad, but not a solid strategy for her to secure her wins.

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    I agree that the pressure of skating last in a hostile environment contributed to the subdued and tense feeling of Kim's performance. When she finished Adios, the girl looked like she had been put through the wringer/escaped the execution block.

    David Wilson's last great programs for Kim were her 2011 set.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8in View Post
    The major issue with the idea of "Yuna was flat," or "she wasn't her best/lacked Adelina's energy" etc, is that this is not criteria for the scoring system.
    Actually...this is a criterion under Performance/Execution in PCS, which describes the following as part of the criteria for that particular component: "Projection - The skater radiates energy resulting in an invisible connection with the audience."

    Link: http://static.isu.org/media/104183/p...planations.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    Yes, the whole Yuna/Adelina focus makes it like it's only Yuna who was robbed. But it's not only her. The scores went wrong for all the top ladies but they were cast aside. Yuna was all hailed the queen by the fans, Adelina get all the hate, other skaters are forgotten. The judging problem remains.
    Eh the focus on Yuna and Adelina is simply because they're the higher scorers. If you really want to see if the judging were fair you'd look at all 30 skaters, but nobody on this forum has the time for that.* How many step sequences have you looked at so far? And yet you're saying other people need to do 6 to justify their position?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    To people who usually don't follow ladies event like me, you shouldn't USE THE CARD "you are big Mao's fan and Yuna's hatter" because it only show how biased you are when you are short on argument. Hora, someone said they are not fond of Yuna's FS, that one must be Mao's fan. WHAT? Where the hell that reasoning came from?
    Have you even bothered to look at the first page of this thread? People were already calling BoP names multiple times just for looking in detail at the judging of the footwork.


    *(And before you say "well what about the judges", there's a big difference between figure skating fans looking the videos in their spare time versus figure skating experts who have access to high-quality footage doing it as part of their professional position.)

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    Right but 'projection' is a specific aspect of the performance. You can point to numerous instances where Yuna was projecting---smiling/giving looks of mourning at different points in the program. That aspect of the components is not just there for the judges personal opinion on how resonant the program is. It is to reward skaters who put effort into the performance, and don't just treat their programs like a skating exhibition. The general sentiment that it 'felt flat' simply because the crowd was hostile/the excitement was behind Adelina because she was on 'home ice' has little to do with the actual skating. Those are context driven, and super subjective impressions. Like you can't downgrade someone's score just because you don't like their musical choice. And there is not some scale in the PCS that says the campier it is the better it is.

  8. #998
    Hate fake smiles and horrendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanshilar View Post
    Eh the focus on Yuna and Adelina is simply because they're the higher scorers. If you really want to see if the judging were fair you'd look at all 30 skaters, but nobody on this forum has the time for that.* How many step sequences have you looked at so far? And yet you're saying other people need to do 6 to justify their position?
    My point is, how about compare skaters that also have (quite) strong free skates that night? Not the whole 30 skaters. I mean if you want to be fair, then shouldn't you do as many researchs as possible? Yes, I know no one has the time for that, sadly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanshilar View Post
    Have you even bothered to look at the first page of this thread? People were already calling BoP names multiple times just for looking in detail at the judging of the footwork.
    If you follow from the beginning of this thread, you could have seen my comments as well. I know what this thread was all about from the 1st place. I only put a comment saying that I don't think Yuna's would be 1st in the free skate. People are quoting me so I simply answer because it sends report to my ipad. For the conversation to come this far, I don't understand why and I don't have much enthusiasm for ladies event, as I have stated. I only said what I feel about that day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanshilar View Post
    *(And before you say "well what about the judges", there's a big difference between figure skating fans looking the videos in their spare time versus figure skating experts who have access to high-quality footage doing it as part of their professional position.)
    Yes, there's the big different, that's why they are judges.
    But can you expect judges to right away FEEL the nuances of Adios Nonino, the concept, the deep meaning, the reflection of souls, the difficulty, the farewell... all that or whatever reasons that Yuna's fans are interpreting on their own? Don't you think it's a bit forced if we have to feel Yuna's free skate that way? Because certainly we don't feel that way. And even Yuna herself might even find those interpretation amusing as well.

    My point is simple, your job of skating in competition is to impress the judges and the audience LIVE. Simple as that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    But can you expect judges to right away FEEL the nuances of Adios Nonino, the concept, the deep meaning, the reflection of souls, the difficulty, the farewell... all that or whatever reasons that Yuna's fans are interpreting on their own? Don't you think it's a bit forced if we have to feel Yuna's free skate that way? Because certainly we don't feel that way. And even Yuna herself might even find those interpretation amusing as well.

    My point is simple, your job of skating in competition is to impress the judges and the audience LIVE. Simple as that.
    They should all be familiar with the music and should be able to interpret the performances as they watch, since two of the judging criteria for PCS are choreography and interpretation. And certainly there are people who have understood the performances. Dick button said "Yuna charming here subjective elements in the component scores ( the artistry) were outstanding ...... David Wilson was extraordinary choice to choreograph." And Italian commentators said the music was very hard to interpret and yuna did very good job. "Make Adelina do tango, she won't even reach the end of the program." Then, how did they understood the performance right away? Because they have watched figure skating many times for long time and knows how to interpret music as well as the performance as a whole. And judges should be able to do so too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cuon_alpinus View Post
    Dick button said "Yuna charming here subjective elements in the component scores ( the artistry) were outstanding ...... David Wilson was extraordinary choice to choreograph."
    I'm sure he did. He's old, but I don't think he's that incoherent quite yet. It really loses the effect without the spaces or added punctuation.

  11. #1001
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    Adios Noninos was a good choice, a beautiful music, the choreography was just a little flat. For a tango, I would have choose another choregraph, or enhance it. and Yuna didn't have the opportunity to skate it often in events during the season

  12. #1002
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    You can win against someone who is pre determine to be a winner.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by cuon_alpinus View Post
    They should all be familiar with the music and should be able to interpret the performances as they watch, since two of the judging criteria for PCS are choreography and interpretation.
    Familiar with the music how?

    What if the skater uses a piece that has never or rarely been used in skating before, maybe a brand new piece?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chamazing View Post
    You can win against someone who is pre determine to be a winner.....
    Mao did in Turin 2010. Adelina did in 2014 in Sochi. There are more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chamazing View Post
    You can win against someone who is pre determine to be a winner.....
    There's a diff. between predetermined and predicted. I don't think any specific skater has been predetermined to win the Olympics.

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