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Thread: Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

  1. #1006
    Say no to horrendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilahozi View Post
    There's a diff. between predetermined and predicted. I don't think any specific skater has been predetermined to win the Olympics.
    Frankly I think the reason ladies event was like that because Plushy pulled out. If not, he would have been the gold medalist. Not that I have problem with him, knowing Plushy he would have stayed on his feet. no one could have complained.

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    Whoops. Forgot about Plushenko. He could've possibly been the predetermined winner. Hm...maybe V&T too, and V&M in 2010.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    Frankly I think the reason ladies event was like that because Plushy pulled out. If not, he would have been the gold medalist. Not that I have problem with him, knowing Plushy he would have stayed on his feet. no one could have complained.
    If everyone else in the men's free skate had performed as they did, and Plushy had stayed on his feet, indeed I would not have complained if he had won the gold. And it would have made the finals more satisfying than they were. They were so messy that I can't even feel excited about who won the gold, I'm sorry to say. This is not an event I'll probably ever want to watch again.

    Years ago, American TV broadcast a ballet competition, I think the Varna Competition (which was shown in Mississippi that year--apparently the venue rotated among several cities). One of the competitors was a very young but very good Katherine Healy, who also skates. Everyone fell at least once, even Healy--was the floor unusually uneven or slippery? Who knows. But at the end, the committee decided not to award a gold medal at all. They gave I think several silvers to the best dancers and left it at that. I almost wish that could have happened at Sochi.

  4. #1009
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Years ago, American TV broadcast a ballet competition, I think the Varna Competition (which was shown in Mississippi that year--apparently the venue rotated among several cities). One of the competitors was a very young but very good Katherine Healy, who also skates. Everyone fell at least once, even Healy--was the floor unusually uneven or slippery? Who knows. But at the end, the committee decided not to award a gold medal at all. They gave I think several silvers to the best dancers and left it at that. I almost wish that could have happened at Sochi.
    I guess that's the difference between sport and art. In art you're expected to be good. In sports you just have to be not as bad as the other guy.

  5. #1010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    Frankly I think the reason ladies event was like that because Plushy pulled out. If not, he would have been the gold medalist. Not that I have problem with him, knowing Plushy he would have stayed on his feet. no one could have complained.
    Sorry, not sure why you're making a connection between the ladies' event and Plushy's w/d from the men's competition. Can you explain?

    BTW, I've been meaning to send you a PM re: the music links you posted a couple of days ago; too much going on but will try to get to it soon. The Elisabeth Grummer performance was gorgeous!

  6. #1011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    If everyone else in the men's free skate had performed as they did, and Plushy had stayed on his feet, indeed I would not have complained if he had won the gold. And it would have made the finals more satisfying than they were. They were so messy that I can't even feel excited about who won the gold, I'm sorry to say. This is not an event I'll probably ever want to watch again.

    Years ago, American TV broadcast a ballet competition, I think the Varna Competition (which was shown in Mississippi that year--apparently the venue rotated among several cities). One of the competitors was a very young but very good Katherine Healy, who also skates. Everyone fell at least once, even Healy--was the floor unusually uneven or slippery? Who knows. But at the end, the committee decided not to award a gold medal at all. They gave I think several silvers to the best dancers and left it at that. I almost wish that could have happened at Sochi.
    This happens in some music competitions, too! (I agree with Mathman, too, sports is different from arts, but the Men's event in Sochi was such a mess that not awarding the Gold medal would have almsot made sense)

  7. #1012
    Say no to horrendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatedreamer View Post
    Sorry, not sure why you're making a connection between the ladies' event and Plushy's w/d from the men's competition. Can you explain?
    BTW, I've been meaning to send you a PM re: the music links you posted a couple of days ago; too much going on but will try to get to it soon. The Elisabeth Grummer performance was gorgeous!
    I was just thinking if Plushy hadn't withdrawn and got the gold (because he rarely fell), Adelina could have gotten the bronze because you know, Putin like Plushy very much. It's just my guess, doesn't mean it's the truth.
    And thank you for listening to Elisabeth Grummer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I guess that's the difference between sport and art. In art you're expected to be good. In sports you just have to be not as bad as the other guy.
    I agree, no matter what people say about figure skating, this is still a sport. We can't just not award the effort those skaters have paid so much to be there simply because we don't like them. They are qualified according to the rule. Not to mention all the injuries they have to suffer. With music competitions you don't have to worry about your legs, at least.

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    Call me crazy if you want, but I don't think it would've been easy to award Plush the gold if he simply stayed on his feet. I thought so initially after Adelina's win (and my subsequent indignation), but I'm not so sure anymore. Awarding a clean Plush is a no-brainer under 6.0. But because of how IJS works, falls aren't penalized very severely. Adelina, regardless of her other shortcomings, had seven triples to Yuna's six. And Yuna missed some levels in the SP (as posters with better memory than me noted ), which allowed Adelina to stay in OGM contention during the long. Also, I think the judges were willing--heck, itching--to award Patrick or Hanyu if only they performed well; it's not quite the case with Yuna, who is reigning Olympic champ, and they except greater things from her since "Oh, she already has an Olympic medal" (and are likely to compare her against her best, and beautiful as her LP was, it wasn't quite that).

    Obviously, the top two did not perform well, but Plush would've needed to skate lights-out to make up for the SP points (he can skate better than he did during the team SP, so I don't think he'd be 10 points back, but it'll still be a difficult gap to bridge). A clean, one-quad LP likely wouldn't have been enough just because of how the points work. Maybe ahead of Patrick for silver, but the Canadian silver curse would've fought against any interferences. I think the top two would've received lower LP marks if Plush had been there, but I can't say for sure that it would've been enough. Of course, lots of my RL friends vehemently disagree and think Plush would've won for sure, so maybe it's just me.

    Of course, they could always change the rules overnight to make falls worth 0 points, in which case Plush would've won by a landslide.

    (I guess it's kinda useless speculating. We can't go back in time and fix that stupid screw in Plush's back.)

  9. #1014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    Adelina, regardless of her other shortcomings, had seven triples to Yuna's six.
    No, she didn't. She completed the same number of triples as Yuna, and was fraudulently awarded an extra one that she failed to complete.

  10. #1015
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    She must have been given an "A" for effort.

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    Oh, okay. In that case they could've made-up a fictional extra quad for Plush and he would've won. Now, does someone have a time machine handy?

  12. #1017
    Say no to horrendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    Oh, okay. In that case they could've made-up a fictional extra quad for Plush and he would've won. Now, does someone have a time machine handy?
    Here is the time machine you need: http://andriasang.com/comzvo/doraemon_social/23qua.jpg
    I still think Plushy could have won if he stayed, at least he wouldn't fall twice.

  13. #1018
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    Doraemon! Argh, but I have no medical expertise. What I can do for him even I go back?

    I'm sure he would've stayed on his feet and landed one quad per program if he stayed. Regardless of the result, I would've been happy to see that during the men's free.

  14. #1019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    Frankly I think the reason ladies event was like that because Plushy pulled out. If not, he would have been the gold medalist. Not that I have problem with him, knowing Plushy he would have stayed on his feet. no one could have complained.
    I disagree. I think both Plushenko's gold and the ladies gold were long ago bought and payed for. Had he competed he would have won. Given how the others skated there probably wouldnt have been a controversy either, but it was probably rigged to ensure him winning even if Hanyu and Chan skated cleanly, as long as he had no more than 2 falls, with loads of +3s in GOE and 10s for PCS. I dont think the ladies had anything to do with the mens, other than I guess much of Putin's money was already wasted with Plushenko's WD, so for the sake of their lives the judges had better not dare give a non Russian the ladies gold or heads would roll (literally).

  15. #1020
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I disagree. I think both Plushenko's gold and the ladies gold were long ago bought and payed for. Had he competed he would have won. Given how the others skated there probably wouldnt have been a controversy either, but it was probably rigged to ensure him winning even if Hanyu and Chan skated cleanly, as long as he had no more than 2 falls, with loads of +3s in GOE and 10s for PCS. I dont think the ladies had anything to do with the mens, other than I guess much of Putin's money was already wasted with Plushenko's WD, so for the sake of their lives the judges had better not dare give a non Russian the ladies gold or heads would roll (literally).
    I don't think the Russians are that greedy. I guess they are smart enough to know that only medal contenders should have been rewarded the gold. But Plushy withdrew and their plans messed up. I don't find the problem with Plushy if he had competed and won (cause both Hanyu and PChan were so bad that day). I think Russians might have been contended with just one gold in single.

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