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Thread: Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    No. That's just the way you are choosing to read it. You open a thread built on a distortion and then complain when people oppose your distortion which just so happens to conform to your opinion that sotnikova didn't deserve to win. You can't find legitimate ways to present Yuna as the real winner so you just distort and lie.
    How do we know your way of interpreting the rule is right? BTW, what is your way? Oh, yeah, the way you get your result.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    You're the one who compares the programs, saying one "seems" more incorrectly scored than the others. Right?
    please. you admit yourself the scores were biased for adelina. lol. anyway, your previous point is incorrect, as i have stated in the previous post.

    also, purposely or not, you are detracting from the main topic of discussion. you don't need to analyze another skater's step sequence to analyze adelina's, so why keep talking about it? make a thread about yuna's step sequence and how it was deserved, and people will debate that one there or not.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by capcomeback View Post
    How do we know your way of interpreting the rule is right? BTW, what is your way? Oh, yeah, the way you get your result.
    Isn't that exactly what BoP is doing?

  4. #94
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Apparently Adelina's choreographer didn't get the memo.
    Maybe the choreographer had an oversight or perhaps Adelina herself has not been able to execute the step sequence in accordance with the rules?

    Her LP step sequence is significantly shorter than her SP step sequence. That means there's inherently less time to pad out the sequence and attempt more than the minimum of all of the different steps and turns in each direction; any edge mistakes that change the type of turn/step you're doing will be more prone to reducing the Level.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by kslr0816 View Post
    make a thread about yuna's step sequence and how it was deserved, and people will debate that one there or not.
    I don't care to because I'm not trying to discredit her deserved silver medal.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    My coach (who is a US Regional-level TS and receives clarifications constantly via email and goes to tech school at least 1X per year) understands the rule to be as BoP does - 5 and 3 in EACH direction - when constructing step sequences for her skaters.

    In addition, here is the link to USFS for the rules (only because it's easier to find than the correct communication on ISU's page):
    1) Minimum variety (Level 1), simple variety (Level 2), variety (Level 3), complexity (Level 4) of turns and steps throughout (compulsory)
    2) Rotations (turns, steps) in either direction (left and right) with full body rotation covering at least 1/3 of the pattern in total for each rotational direction
    3) Use of upper body movements for at least 1/3 of the pattern
    4) Two different combinations of 3 difficult turns (rockers, counters, brackets, twizzles, loops) quickly executed with a clear rhythm within the sequence

    With clarification below:
    Types of turns (executed on one foot) : three turns, twizzles, brackets, loops, counters, rockers.
    Types of steps (executed on one foot whenever possible) : toe steps, chasses, mohawks, choctaws, curves with change of edge, cross-rolls, running steps.
    Minimum variety must include at least 5 turns & 2 steps, none of the types can be counted more than twice.
    Simple variety must include at least 7 turns & 4 steps, none of the types can be counted more than twice.
    Variety must include at least 9 turns and 4 steps, none of the types can be counted more than twice.
    Complexity must include at least 5 different types of turns and 3 different types of steps all
    executed at least once in both directions.

    Use of upper body movements means the visible use for a combined total of at least 1/3 of the pattern of the step sequence any movements of the arms, head and torso that have an effect on the balance of the main body core.
    Two combinations of difficult turns are considered to be the same if they consist of the same turns done in the same order, on the same edge and on the same foot.

    Source:
    http://www.usfsa.org/content/2013-14...Difficulty.pdf
    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    You don't understand English apparently. A comma in any of those places does not change the meaning of the sentence.



    I don't hate Sotnikova, you're the one who is making illegitimate lies. Why are you so defensive? Clearly you're trying to push some kind of agenda or want to hide something.

    NEITHER of you understand competitive skating, clearly. All competitive skating choreographers have understood the rule as such, this rule has been in place since the 2010-2011 season (maybe even earlier than that, I can't recall off the top of my head). That's why see you 5 different types of turns and 3 different types of steps all attempted in both directions in every Level 4 footwork sequence for the ENTIRE past 4 seasons.
    quoting these in response to the question at hand, which is how should thie particular rule be interpreted?

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Her LP step sequence is significantly shorter than her SP step sequence. That means there's inherently less time to pad out the sequence and attempt more than the minimum of all of the different steps and turns in each direction; any edge mistakes that change the type of turn/step you're doing will be more prone to reducing the Level.
    I can't imagine they would get the rules that wrong to choreograph 1 step instead of 3 in each direction.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I don't care to because I'm not trying to discredit her deserved silver medal.
    looks like no one else is either. so, what was your point about this?

    This is exactly why you should look at all the performances, because you think one "seems" to be marked the most incorrectly without even considering how the others are marked.

  9. #99
    Best comeback EVOR! zamboni step's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    She never once did her fs cleanly or even close to cleanly before the Olympics! She rarely ever did her 3 jump combo or messed up in some other way on her two triple flip plan. I was thinking that would continue but it didn't! The Russia fed was right to in keeping faith in sotnikova and I was incorrect! Now that she gave the best performance in 2014 ladies olympics competiton she deserves to be defended from outrageous lies and distortions and extreme hate.
    Clean skates pre-Sochi
    Cup of Russia II Rostelecom Perm 2009- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_327e4ktyQ Two 3+3Ls, 7 triples. 3T-2T-2T
    2010 JGP Austria- 3Lz-3L, 2A-3T and 4 other clean triples.
    2011 Russian Nationals- 7 clean triples, same content as Austria
    2013 TEB- 6 triples, two 3Fs, no pops, no step outs

    Near clean skates pre-Sochi
    2014 Nationals, one <<, that's it.
    2014 Euros, step out of lutz, UR on 3L.

    Boom.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    You don't understand English apparently. A comma in any of those places does not change the meaning of the sentence.



    I don't hate Sotnikova, you're the one who is making illegitimate lies. Why are you so defensive? Clearly you're trying to push some kind of agenda or want to hide something.

    NEITHER of you understand competitive skating, clearly. All competitive skating choreographers have understood the rule as such, this rule has been in place since the 2010-2011 season (maybe even earlier than that, I can't recall off the top of my head). That's why see you 5 different types of turns and 3 different types of steps all attempted in both directions in every Level 4 footwork sequence for the ENTIRE past 4 seasons.
    Wrong. The insertion of punctuation can have a major effect on the meaning of a sentence (& I both speak & write English to a standard high enough to produce reports for UK Government departments).
    Last edited by Glen Parry; 03-12-2014 at 02:56 PM. Reason: Typo

  11. #101
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    Honestly who cares? We know it was judging in her favour and a level 3 wouldn't have affected the results.

    The competition is done. Sequences and levels are called incorrectly all the time. The amount of effort you've put into analyzing Sotnikova's sequence, while interesting in the context of how footwork is marked, is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

  12. #102
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    so what exactly IS the rule? is it up to interpretation, or does anyone here who actually judges know what the rule is for sure? or any choreographers, skaters who work with choreographers obviously have to aim for something, otherwise get dinged every time they skate..

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    She did 6 types (which is "at least 5" types) AND 5 in each direction
    So you mean 5 in both directions, or 5 in any direction? Nevermind, let me just do this so we can all see it better lol:


    Clockwise

    15.) Rocker, clockwise
    22.) Rocker, clockwise
    28.) Rocker, clockwise (barely, edge is shallow and immediately changes over)

    7.) Three Turn, clockwise
    11.) Three Turn, clockwise
    29.) Three Turn, clockwise

    10.) Loop, clockwise

    3.) Twizzle, clockwise

    20.) Toe Hop, clockwise

    16.) Counter, clockwise

    14.) Toe Steps, clockwise

    21.) Chasse, clockwise
    25.) Chasse, clockwise (x3)

    2.) Curve with change of edge, clockwise
    9.) Curve with change of edge, clockwise

    Counter-Clockwise

    5.) Rocker, counterclockwise
    23.) Rocker, counterclockwise (barely, edge is shallow and immediately changes over)
    24.) Rocker, counterclockwise

    1.) Three Turn, counterclockwise (x2)

    19.) Loop, counterclockwise

    8.) Twizzle, counterclockwise (barely makes it around and free foot comes down quickly)

    4). Toe Hop, counterlockwise

    12.) Choctaw, counterclockwise

    13.) Illusion turn, counterclockwise

    17.) Bracket, counterclockwise (barely, edge is shallow and immediately changes over with free foot coming down)

    18.) Mohawk, counterclockwise


    Other

    6.) Change edge from inside to outside
    26.) Edge change from inside to outside
    27.) Edge change from outside to inside with free foot placed on ice



    Types and Directions:

    Rocker - both
    Three Turn (?) - both
    Loop - both
    Twizzle - both
    Toe Hop - both

    Toe Steps - C
    Chasse - C
    Curve (?) - C

    Chocktaw - CC
    Mowhawk - CC
    Bracket - CC
    Illusion - CC


    I feel like I've accomplished something, but I have no idea what

    Anyone care to explain which of these items are "turns' and which are "steps"

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by kslr0816 View Post
    you don't need to analyze another skater's step sequence to analyze adelina's, so why keep talking about it? make a thread about yuna's step sequence and how it was deserved, and people will debate that one there or not.
    No, but you do need to analyze other step sequences and the official calls for them to draw any conclusions about the competence or bias of the technical panel.

  15. #105
    Best comeback EVOR! zamboni step's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Honestly who cares? We know it was judging in her favour and a level 3 wouldn't have affected the results.

    The competition is done. Sequences and levels are called incorrectly all the time. The amount of effort you've put into analyzing Sotnikova's sequence, while interesting in the context of how footwork is marked, is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.
    I realise it was in order to prove that Sotnikova didn't deserve the win, but I do find the analysis interesting. I can score steps but I still find myself feeling like a crazy person everytime I do it, because it takes so much more time, so it's nice someone else did it and I don't have to obsess.

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