Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

MiRé · Jun 2, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
How is acknowledging start order matters contradictory? Do you disagree with either (a) start order does affect scores or (b) PCS marks how the skater skates the program, rather than their reputation of how "good" a skater they are?

PCS marks reflect what is exhibited in the program presented, not how skilled the skater is outside the context of the program
PCS marks reflect what is exhibited in the program presented, not how skilled the skater is outside the context of the program
PCS marks reflect what is exhibited in the program presented, not how skilled the skater is outside the context of the program
PCS marks reflect what is exhibited in the program presented, not how skilled the skater is outside the context of the program

I don't see anything about start order on your definition of PCS. Or are you just adding excuses to your list to make you feel better? Your excuses would outnumber the posts on this thread. Your posts are more ridiculous than the judges at sochi.

drivingmissdaisy · Jun 2, 2014

Melon said:
PCS marks reflect what is exhibited in the program presented, not how skilled the skater is outside the context of the program
PCS marks reflect what is exhibited in the program presented, not how skilled the skater is outside the context of the program
PCS marks reflect what is exhibited in the program presented, not how skilled the skater is outside the context of the program
PCS marks reflect what is exhibited in the program presented, not how skilled the skater is outside the context of the program

I don't see anything about start order on your definition of PCS. Or are you just adding excuses to your list to make you feel better? Your excuses would outnumber the posts on this thread. Your posts are more ridiculous than the judges at sochi.

Relax. Attacking me for making a statement on PCS isn't making you have a better position, it just shows how desperate Yuna fans are for attacking people who disagree when there is no strong case for giving her gold, at least according to Kwan, Stojko, Lipinski, Weir, and Hamiliton. They are far more high-profile than the many Adelina supporters here so you should try attacking them

Ophelia · Jun 2, 2014

^Cherry-picking points, misinterpreting other people's arguments, and contradicting yourself more than once also doesn't give you "a better position" (w/e that term means).

Ven · Jun 2, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
Yuna's flat program could not even be saved by her better start order.

Yes, her program was so flat, and could not be saved, that she received the highest PCS of her career.

I think there's little doubt at this point you are intentionally trolling, which I think is against forum rules.

MiRé · Jun 2, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
Relax. Attacking me for making a statement on PCS isn't making you have a better position, it just shows how desperate Yuna fans are for attacking people who disagree when there is no strong case for giving her gold, at least according to Kwan, Stojko, Lipinski, Weir, and Hamiliton. They are far more high-profile than the many Adelina supporters here so you should try attacking them

You're not Adelina supporter :rofl:

It's okay to be embarrassed on the internet :hb:

Just make sure next time, stop contradicting your illogical excuses. Let's make this world better, shall we?

Meoima · Jun 2, 2014

I told you guys PCS is just ordinal system in disguise. They use PCS to divide skaters of the top 3 and the rest. There is no use debating over PCS inflation because the numbers make no sense at all.

PCS is just a tool used by the judges to rank skaters in competition. Who they like better, who they have more bias, who they were told to hold up.

drivingmissdaisy · Jun 2, 2014

lilahozi said:
^Cherry-picking points, misinterpreting other people's arguments, and contradicting yourself more than once also doesn't give you "a better position" (w/e that term means).

My position doesn't require that 9 judges from completely unrelated countries conspired to inflate scores of a skater whom everyone saw electrify the Olympics with enthusiasm and technical brilliance.

Ven · Jun 2, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
My position doesn't require that 9 judges from completely unrelated countries conspired to inflate scores of a skater whom everyone saw electrify the Olympics with enthusiasm and technical brilliance.

She wasn't technically brilliant. She flutzed and UR her combo, and should have received level 3 on her step sequence. Corrupting the tech panel with the cheaters Lakernik, Gusmeroli, and Baranova, to give undeserved marks and then state after the fact that Sotnikova was technically brilliant? Doesn't work!

Ophelia · Jun 2, 2014

On a sidenote (this doesn't give merit to either side of the current argument), but it seems that GS historically has not held Elvis Stojko's opinions in high regard. Circa 2010. :laugh:

This is just precious coming from the Celebrated Jumping Frog of Ontario County. Of course he's in favor of jumping over artistry, interpretation, musicality, spins, spirals, footwork, and basic skating skills. If not for his jumping he would have been coaching at his local rollerskating rink.

Oh Elvis. Go crawl back in your hole. Nobody cared what you thought about the scoring of the men's competition and they care even less about your comments on the women's. Your time has passed. You're like the 80 year old man boring everyone to death with their stories of what happened back in the good ole days.

Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
Elvis Stoijko would oppose world peace if he thought that massive war was technically more challenging. I'm at the point where I really don't understand how he comes up with his thoughts.

I used to be an Elvis fan but his diatribes about these Olympics has just turned me off. I'm starting to believe Elvis would like us to can the spins, transitions, footwork, field moves, music, all choreography, and just have four minutes of jumping. The problem with that is, then skating would not be the beautiful and unique sport that it is, and it sure would no longer be the premiere event of the Olympics.

drivingmissdaisy · Jun 2, 2014

What about Michelle Kwan, who was so very brave to endorse Adelina's win although Yuna is a very good friend of Michelle's? I respect Michelle so much more because of the bravery she exhibited at that moment.

As far as Elvis, he is far more accomplished than anyone who posts on these boards. I wouldn't dismiss his opinions so quickly.

Ven · Jun 2, 2014

Michelle Kwan was as contradictory with her comments as you are here with yours daisy.

And there were many, many other former skaters who said they thought Yuna won.

drivingmissdaisy · Jun 2, 2014

Ven said:
Michelle Kwan was as contradictory with her comments as you are here with yours daisy.

And there were many, many other former skaters who said they thought Yuna won.

I never said a lot of people didn't think Yuna should have won. But I'm also saying a lot of people think Adelina should have won. Regardless of you thinking Michelle was contradictory, she said Adelina deserved to win and never said Yuna deserved to win. She said she preferred Yuna's style.

Believe me, what Kwan did was courageous, to risk not being invited to skate in Yuna's shows because of her supporting the rightful winner in Sochi.

Ophelia · Jun 2, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
I never said a lot of people didn't think Yuna should have won. But I'm also saying a lot of people think Adelina should have won. Regardless of you thinking Michelle was contradictory, she said Adelina deserved to win and never said Yuna deserved to win. She said she preferred Yuna's style.

Before...

Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy
Not really. The negative comments on Adelina's social media pages are entirely from Koreans and Korean Americans. Most everyone else is supportive of or indifferent to the outcome.

drivingmissdaisy said:
Americans are generally supportive or indifferent. Don't take my word for it though, look at the petition signatures or the comments on Adelina's social media pages and see how many are from South Koreans (or people of Korean descent). There are a few people out there trying to use this as an excuse to get rid of a judging system they have disliked for awhile, but as far as outrage over the outcome it is very very isolated.

Hm...:think:

drivingmissdaisy · Jun 2, 2014

lilahozi said:
Before...
Hm...:think:

LoL at your continued desperation. A lot of people (mostly South Koreans and Korean Americans) think Yuna should have won. Outside of those groups there is little outrage.

Try again. Or maybe quit being so desperate to attack posters and think about why a lot of people disagree with you. It's up to you. Regardless nothing is going to change the outcome that many people agree with already.

Ven · Jun 2, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
(mostly South Koreans and Korean Americans)

False. Vast numbers of people in all different countries of all colors and shapes and sizes believe the competition was rigged.

You are all mouth, no legs to stand on here.

Ophelia · Jun 2, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
LoL at your continued desperation. A lot of people (mostly South Koreans and Korean Americans) think Yuna should have won. Outside of those groups there is little outrage.

Try again. Or maybe quit being so desperate to attack posters and think about why a lot of people disagree with you. It's up to you. Regardless nothing is going to change the outcome that many people agree with already.

See, the thing is I do accept several well-reasoned points some posters have made about both Kim and Sotnikova's performances and results, and respect their opinions.

However, I don't agree with posters (regardless of their stance) whose method of debate involves posting contradictory remarks, selectively ignoring valid arguments and rebuttals, cherry-picking facts, and misinterpreting other people's statements, who then resort to name-calling when their logical fallacies are called out on publicly.

YesWay · Jun 2, 2014

Ven said:
False. Vast numbers of people in all different countries of all colors and shapes and sizes believe the competition was rigged.

You are all mouth, no legs to stand on here.

LOL. Irony.

How much is a "vast number"? 10? 100? A million?

And you somehow know how many there are?
And their nationalities?

And you also know how many don't care or don't agree, and are not outraged or believe the competition was rigged?
And their nationalities too?

So that you can say with such certainty, that claiming "most" of the outraged are South Koreans or Korean Americans... is "false".

You are all mouth, no legs to stand on here... as much as anyone.

Mathman · Jun 2, 2014

What did Michelle Kwan say?

Michelle Kwan discussed the women’s LP events twice for Fox Sports 1. I can’t find the first one on You Tube at the moment, but in her recap right after the event she did managed to get out the words, after some hemming and hawing, “Sotnikova won, fair and square.”

In the recap the next day (starting at 1:10 in the following link) she was asked, “What was the biggest surprise of the Olympics?” She said the biggest surprise was Yuna Kim’s placement. Before the event she told Yuna, just skate clean and be yourself and you will win. She skated clean and she was herself. But…she didn’t win.

Seeing the two interviews together, it is clear that Michelle had misgivings about the whole thing.

(Best moment for Michelle was Davis and White’s gold medal. Biggest disappointment was the splatfest men’s competition and the withdrawal of Plushenko.)

The other person on the panel, by the way (a sports reporter), was blown away by both Lipnitskiaia (team) and Sotnikova (individual) and thought that it was a shame that the focus was placed the judging controversies rather than the skating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrKcWkRue_c

Ven · Jun 2, 2014

*There are over 2 million on one petition. Even if 90% were Korean, that would still be over 200,000 people of other backgrounds.
Try getting 200,000 people to care about the entire sport of figure skating, let alone one skater ... if you can.

*Read all of the threads on GS. You will see many people from many backgrounds believe Sochi Ladies was rigged.

*Read the live thread. You will see nearly without exception everyone mocked the competition as it happened.

*The same thing happened in every live thread I followed on dozens of different forums on the internet.

*Former skaters like Katerina Witt, Kurt Browning, Tim Wood, Dick Button, Gwendal Peizerat, Robin Cousins, and many others all said Yuna won.

*Many current and former judges and officials gave interviews with the media and stated they believed Yuna and Carolina were better, and the results were corrupted.

Sam-Skwantch · Jun 2, 2014

How many of the 2million do we suppose did so out of a greater knowledge of how FS is scored vs how many out of love for Yuna? Is that even relevant?

Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

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