Page 79 of 114 FirstFirst ... 29 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 ... LastLast
Results 1,171 to 1,185 of 1710

Thread: Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

  1. #1171
    Love popcorn, hate horendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    North of the world
    Posts
    4,149
    If this event were in the 6.0 era, it would have been much easier, wouldn't it. The judges didn't have to do crazy math like this. Mostly they only had to say which one they liked better and gave out the placement, we would know which judge placed Adelina or Yuna higher.

    Just like Oly 1994, even though some people still don't agree with the placement, at least we know which judge favour which skater.

    CoP wouldn't be such a mess if they erased anonymous judging right from the beginning.

  2. #1172
    Landing 3As in my dreams! skatedreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    935
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    I don't think it's even clearly defined what good height is. Is it an absolute measurement off of the ice (for ex. 8in. or higher) or is it in relation to the skaters physical demeanor. Is its goodness determined in comparison to the rest of the competitors or is it merely for the jump at hand. This is for the judges to assess and I dont think you'll ever get a clear consensus on any one panel. To me a jump that allows for full rotation is not enough to be awarded the height/distance bullet in all cases but is a good place to start when assessing a jump's final value.

    The GOE bonus is basically the icing and candles on the cake. The thing is I won't put either on until all the main ingredients are mixed and cooked properly. Probably a terrible example.
    Speaking only as a more-than-casual fan, the idea of full rotation as a place to start makes sense to me. The rotation is what I'd understand as one of the basics of the jump, with height and distance adding the "wow" factor that would contribute to a GOE bonus. As for "effortless," that's the Holy Grail!

    The ingredients/cake/icing analogy didn't seem all that weird but I come from a long line of amazing cooks & bakers!

  3. #1173
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    25
    Did blades of passion ever get to analyze Sotnikova's short program step sequence? I lost track after this thread started going off-topic.

    Couple things I want to say about off-topic discussions;

    1. Yuna's single 3Lutz - someone's calling it FLUTZ now? (sam skwanch?) Flutz is when you take off for Lutz jump with inside edge instead of outside edge - it has nothing to do with the rotations. And for those who claim Yuna pre/under-rotated, when you count revolutions, it's pointless to look at captured moments because everyone would be under rotated somehow picking the supposed exact moment that the foot makes contact with ice - even when it's only toe pick. You should look at the entire jump - start from the moment of take off and count the rotation of the foot - although with Yuna, looking at her upper body will be just fine cuz she doesn't twist her upper body to forfeit rotation (specialty of Sotnikova and Mao - this is shown by their head turned sideways during their jumps). No doubt Yuna had full rotation - a little tight - but she does complete full rotation in air - a close one though and she barely makes it. The huge turn she makes afterwards was to stabilize her landing, not to complete her rotation on ice.

    2. Comparing Yuna with Buttle/Tuktamisheva
    Okay, in all fairness they all used Adios Nonino and they all had their own edit version of the music piece. And yes, people may have different preferences. But where do people get the idea that Yuna didn't interpret the music vs Buttle/tuktamisheva did better than Yuna? Yuna expresses various emotions & captures every nuances every time the beat/tempo changes in Adios Nonino - it starts off with sad/ mourning tone and her facial expressions also reflect the mood. Her little smile after her FCCoSp4 right before her step sequence marks the change of tempo into a faster paced/passionate tango. Towards the end of step sequence, it's back to sorrowful/slow tempo. She acts out a mourning daughter who misses her father. And then right before LSp3, there's a little alluring piano prelude leading up to the climax and Yuna does that little finger tip touching her face - perfectly expressing feminity/maturity. Then finally accelerated tempo along with Yuna's choreo sequence... She expresses agony here. Her ending pose marks the growth/maturity of a girl through her father's passing/tango. See how it's so easy to tell a story from her performance? Who said her performance was boring? It had so many changes of tempos and different grounds for various moods/emotions/expressions. And please do compare it with other Nonino performances - were they able to perfectly match/fit their elements into the music? Were they able to make the music come alive or did the music carry the skaters?

    3. Crossovers - some say Adelina had less crossovers but that's because she didn't cover enough ice. With the same amount of time given, she lack speed and covered less ice. (Look up the ice coverage comparisons)
    http://youtu.be/Lf7V6DTHuhw this is a raw cam. Just look at her speed.

    4. Sotnikova with difficult entry and less severe wrong edge on her lutz? First of all, wrong edge is a wrong edge. i think the new isu rule giving out attentions to less severe ones is ridiculous. So basically it's enough to pretend you have outside edge way before take off and when you actually take off you slyly change to inside edge but it's barely noticeable. So it's less severe? I mean because that's exactly what Sotnikova does. But this is about the jumping technique itself, before even getting into GoEs and difficult entries. If that is not going to be penalized strictly, then what about skaters like Yuna who properly does the outside edge right when she takes off? Shouldn't they award Yuna with +3 GoEs just for her textbook jumping technique? And speaking of difficult entry, she may look like she does more in her entry because she does turns before the jump - but if you look at it in a different perspective, all that stuff before the jump is possible because she lacks speed. Look at Yuna's entry. It's with so much speed - and it's not like she does nothing - if you look it up, no other skaters do that cross-steps before the lutz jump.

  4. #1174
    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Milan
    Posts
    3,392
    Quote Originally Posted by skatedreamer View Post
    Speaking only as a more-than-casual fan, the idea of full rotation as a place to start makes sense to me. The rotation is what I'd understand as one of the basics of the jump, with height and distance adding the "wow" factor that would contribute to a GOE bonus. As for "effortless," that's the Holy Grail!
    I agree but I would add the landing as well, as one of the basics of the jump.

  5. #1175
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    59
    Guys. I'm so sorry but Sotnikova sucks. Her jumps are huge but ugly. She lacks artistry on ice. Why are we even discussing this? She has fire though, I will give her that. But if you want to become a complete skater, look at others please.

  6. #1176
    Landing 3As in my dreams! skatedreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    935
    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    I agree but I would add the landing as well, as one of the basics of the jump.
    Yes, indeed -- and "finishing" the landing a la Michelle Kwan. I'll look for an example & post a clip if I find one.

    EDIT: This is MK in her "Salome" program from 1996 Worlds. Watch the jump around 2:00 and the lovely landing position...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKmUW8wPB0s
    Last edited by skatedreamer; 05-15-2014 at 12:23 AM. Reason: added a link

  7. #1177
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    4,011
    Quote Originally Posted by jand0387 View Post
    Did blades of passion ever get to analyze Sotnikova's short program step sequence? I lost track after this thread started going off-topic.
    Yes, although I haven't taken time to write it all down yet. It should have been called as Level 3. At this point, it kind of feels like I'd be wasting my own time to write it all down, although I will if people really want to see. I'd like to focus on trying to push for improving the sport going forward, rather than revisiting an ugly step sequence and yet another judging mistake that was made in Sochi.

  8. #1178
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    At the Rink
    Posts
    3,205
    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    I agree but I would add the landing as well, as one of the basics of the jump.
    I couldn't agree more and in at least one thread, maybe even here, I've suggested a once per program ~3pts bonus awarded to any one element held out longer than required. Most skaters could achieve this easily but currently aren't being rewarded for it. All you would need is wording like "enhances the element value" or "adds impact to the performance". It would encourage an artistic edge while not drastically overhauling the system and hindering skaters from pushing the tech side too.

    Height is way overrated in my books. The landing and how a jump is woven into a program should be of more significant impact on scoring to me.

  9. #1179
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,212
    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    rather than revisit ... yet another judging mistake that was made in Sochi.
    "Mistake" implies an error not done on purpose. I think in this case, it's a poor word choice, since the intent was clear -- the technical panel was determined to give Sotnikova Level 4, and her main challengers Level 3, regardless of what any of them did on the ice.

  10. #1180
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    132
    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Yes, although I haven't taken time to write it all down yet. It should have been called as Level 3. At this point, it kind of feels like I'd be wasting my own time to write it all down, although I will if people really want to see. I'd like to focus on trying to push for improving the sport going forward, rather than revisiting an ugly step sequence and yet another judging mistake that was made in Sochi.
    You have be to unbiased to get heard. Right now you have an agenda.

  11. #1181
    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Milan
    Posts
    3,392
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    Height is way overrated in my books. The landing and how a jump is woven into a program should be of more significant impact on scoring to me.
    Yep. Don't get me wrong, I love high jumps and when it's done well it's a WOW jump, with men it happens more often, but I don't like shaky and stiff landings. It gives me as a viewer a sense of insecurity. First of all I like the fluidity, the running edge jumps.
    One of the most things I did appreciate about Yuna's jumps was not the height or the distance covered (that too) but the fluidity coming out from her jumps. That's what gives the idea or the sense of effortless, IMO.

  12. #1182
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    2,873
    Quote Originally Posted by jand0387 View Post
    3. Crossovers - some say Adelina had less crossovers but that's because she didn't cover enough ice. With the same amount of time given, she lack speed and covered less ice. (Look up the ice coverage comparisons)
    http://youtu.be/Lf7V6DTHuhw this is a raw cam. Just look at her speed.
    This is completely off-topic, but I would like to add my opinion here: I saw Adelina skating twice (in Zagreb 2013 and in Budapest this year), and I have to say that her ice coverage is GREAT! I clearly remember that in 2013 I didn't like her Aguilera FS at all, but I was really impressed by her ss and ice coverage, so much that immediatly after she skated (Kostner had already skated) I thought "Well, she's the only one here who comes close to Caro in terms of use of the rink" (SO MUCH better than Liza, who skated incredibly well there, for example). Since Caro is often compared to Yu-Na in SS, I would say that Adelina is not really far behind at all!

  13. #1183
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    205
    Quote Originally Posted by skatedreamer View Post
    Yes, indeed -- and "finishing" the landing a la Michelle Kwan. I'll look for an example & post a clip if I find one.

    EDIT: This is MK in her "Salome" program from 1996 Worlds. Watch the jump around 2:00 and the lovely landing position...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKmUW8wPB0s
    Yes, the exit of MK's 2a is a beauty, same can be said for the Romanza!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1imuQWeIi4Q, around 1.57mins.

  14. #1184
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    4,011
    Quote Originally Posted by Alain View Post
    You have be to unbiased to get heard. Right now you have an agenda.
    Everyone has an agenda. Mine is improving the sport. What's yours?

  15. #1185
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Yes, although I haven't taken time to write it all down yet. It should have been called as Level 3. At this point, it kind of feels like I'd be wasting my own time to write it all down, although I will if people really want to see. I'd like to focus on trying to push for improving the sport going forward, rather than revisiting an ugly step sequence and yet another judging mistake that was made in Sochi.
    Blades of passion, you were the only one brave enough to face skeptism and outcries in this Golden Skate community where there's always ugly spats between fans - and you shared your expertise. I truly appreciate your effort. Your work actually has great impact in the works of the people who are trying to better the sport of figure skating. There are people still waiting for your analysis. And please check out www.sochiscandal.com - your valuable work serves great purpose!

Page 79 of 114 FirstFirst ... 29 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •