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Thread: How long will Asada continue?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarneAsada View Post
    "More devastating than people want to remember" as if being in 16th place wasn't enough? Putting her in 4th doesn't require inflated PCS, it just requires giving the other skaters their proper scores or giving Asada the same inflation as the skaters in the final flight. Like I said, she was rightly out of the running for bronze with the way the medalists skated, but with her overwhelming technical content she easily should have placed over the two skaters who each fell in the LP.
    Totally agree. Mao's Rochmaninoff was monumental. It reminded me of Yuna's Gershwin: Both presented free spirits that float around the ice: Yuna's Gershwin was a light version and Mao's Rochmaninoff was a somber version. The score Mao received was incorrect in comparison to Adelina's, Yulia's, and Gracie's. She wasn't gifted at all yet still her TES was the 2nd of the night only after Adelina "Automatic +3 GOE" Sotnikova. Don't even get me started on PCS.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Gold probably deserved 4th but wow was she overscored. How could she have a fall and score 7 points higher than her perfect team final LP (which I thought was underscored but her individual was way overscored). Also how could Julia beat Gold by 12 points in the team final LP (which I thought was too much), then come behind when both fall in the individual LP. That type of wild inconsistency in the scoring does little to give fans confidence in the credability of the judging.
    This whole paragraph made my head explode!! You're right. It's like the ISU gets paid per post on GS forum or something.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I think she will go for the 2018 Olympics. I am already pretty sure a Russian wont be winning the next Games (and I am not even talking about sotnikova who I will be shocked if she even is still around or tries for 2018, or Julia who I am pretty sure will be done due to her body by then; but whichever Russian is on top by then such as Radianova and new faces will face backlash in the 2018 Games scoring in South Korea after the 2014 debacle and what they did to South Korea's hero). So that leaves who as her competition. Gold, Kim if she returns somehow but she wont have been skating full time the way Mao will have been so at a disadvantage, whoever new might emerge by then, Osmond, Edmunds. I think her chances of winning the next Olympic gold are great.

    She has improved her jump technique and skating alot the last 2 years, which started as a plan to go back to stratch 4 years ago. Still being quite young she will likely keep improving it along that plan, making her even harder to beat.

    I'd wait for 4cc of next season to see what the 2 Korean girls look like...

    Also, Have you seen such politicking from the South Koreans ?
    I mean, Russian politicking has appeared in other Olympics before in other countries than Russia, They could arguably manage to "own" enough of a judging panel even in Korea

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarneAsada View Post
    "More devastating than people want to remember" as if being in 16th place wasn't enough? Putting her in 4th doesn't require inflated PCS, it just requires giving the other skaters their proper scores or giving Asada the same inflation as the skaters in the final flight. Like I said, she was rightly out of the running for bronze with the way the medalists skated, but with her overwhelming technical content she easily should have placed over the two skaters who each fell in the LP.
    I can see the rationale for Mao finishing 4th. It seems plausible, but I don't really agree with it and I also subscribe to the idea of Kim being 3 points below Mao. I also believe that there should be more points separating them from Kostner. But, I absolutely do not see Sotnikova close to Kim in the long. I believe Sotnikova should be in fourth in the free-skate. It's just that the extent of the manipulation is so extreme from the Grand Prix season to the Olympics in both GOE and PCS that Asada's 3rd place finish seems to be likely. In my opinion, I just don't see Sotnikova, Gold or Lipnitskaya as 200 skaters yet because they are still second tier PCS skaters who should score 90-96, with far lower GOEs for the Russians. It also took Asada, Kim and now Kostner a long time to reach 200 internationally and to get high PCS, so I am not slighting their talent, but they need to earn it by showing better interpretation, better edges and posture and smoother flow across the ice. So, with the few extra points Asada should get in tech and PCS in the LP for this monumental masterpiece, she breaks the 200 barrier and takes third place.

    In reference to the other poster's comment. I don't believe I am blinded by bias, but just trying to make sense of what appears to be a full-blown coup of the sport by a country that is threatening to invade Ukraine, which it treated so awfully during the time of Stalin in the 1930s. I also agree with the idea that the Olympic competition is based on the total from two skates with the LP being 2/3. So, there is no automatic elimination due to one bad skate worth only 1/3 of the competition. Dennis Ten proved this to be true when he went from 9th to 3rd.

    Here is a break-down of the full-extent of Sotnikova's score manipulation:
    Grand Prix season average SP = 65 Grand Prix Average LP = 114 = 179
    Sochi SP= 74.64, LP 149.95 = 224.59 Difference = 45 points
    Grand Prix Season Average PCS SP = 30.5 Average PCS LP = 61.33 = Total = 91.83
    Olympics PCS SP + LP = 109.96 Difference = 18. 13 points
    Change in PCS in LP alone over 13 points increase with a two footed landing
    Mao Asada’s Change in PCS in LP clean compared to GP season average .1 point increase (Could this have been set ahead of time?)best skate of her life
    There has never been a PCS difference of less than half a point between medalists in the history of COP scoring system, yet at Sochi the difference between them is only .44. A video on youtube uses this as evidence to say the PCS scores were fixed ahead of time. These two bits of data suggest to me that the PCS was likely set ahead of time for Mao Asada, Yuna Kim, Carolina Kostner, and Adelina Sotnikova. That way changes in score manipulation could be limited to tech scores. Don't know about Lipnitskaya

    Mao Asada base level LP TECH 66 - actual 73.05
    Sotnikova base level LP 61 - actual over 75
    Sotnikova was also the only medalist who received level 4 on the step sequences in both the SP and LP, which was the first time she had ever done so. More absurd to me, Sotnikova was even given a slightly higher grade of execution on her step sequence than Mao, even after Dick Button himself said she lacked musicality. I thought Mao's was much, much better and the best of the night with Kim being a close second.

    Percent of Satnikova’s jumps receiving a GOE of +3 during the year before the Olympics - 1.1 percent
    Percent of jumps receiving a GOE of +3 during the Olympics - 21 percent
    Number of +3 GOE's LP = 33 with two footed landing and step-out, URs and flutz ignored by Russian tech panel
    Number of Mao's +3 GOE's LP = 6 clean, one combination jump called clean by Kurt Browning live on TV was judged UR, also called on flutz
    Yuna Kim +3 GOE’s = 13 Perfect textbook skater
    Gracie Gold’s Grand Prix average is even lower.

    This goes a long way to legitimizing that the 26 point difference between Asada and Sotnikova could conceivably be made up by correct scoring and several posters at this website and others have made the same claim, though I will admit it is a small minority. But, seeing through this great blur of corruption is quite difficult. Also, I agree that there was no way Asada was over-scored and this was the the first time I had ever heard that. Every other comment I have seen on numerous sites- including dozens of people- have indicated she should have won the free skate with a score of between 144-150, with the exception of one indicating that her score was justified. I also believe that Kim should have received more points in tech scores for both the SP and LP because she received the lowest GOE in Sochi for her entire career.

    To put it in perspective, Lipnitskaya (in the team) and Sotnikova now have total scores that are higher than Mao Asada, and Gracie Gold’s LP with a fall in Sochi (135) is only one point lower than Asada’s best LP (136) coming into Sochi. Though they are very good skaters, I think it is ridiculous, and I hope she retires after Worlds if this trend of young skater inflation / Asada slight deflation continues, even if it is to a lesser extent. It will be her form of protest for this blatant corruption

  5. #50
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    If Mao wins in Saitama, she would be wise to retire on a high note. Her 3a isn't going to get any more consistent and the competition isn't going to get any easier. There so many skaters now with consistent 3/3s, many of those 3z+3t or 3f+3t, not the easier 3t+3t. Sure, every once in a while Mao can pull off a great performance, such as her FS at Sochi, but these have become few and far between lately, and it's been a long, long time since she's been able to put two great performances together in one competition.

    She can continue to perform for her fans in shows, without the strain of competition, enjoy life, and pursue other interests.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    No. It will be justly deserved. I will offer absolutely no defense to the Russians should they receive some backlash in the scoring (not just in ladies, but any event) at the 2018 Games. In fact it would take 100 years of such treatment for the Russians in not only Olympics but every competition to even things out for all they have done to corrupt the scoring of the sport the last 100 years. Phone conversations, footsie tapping caught on camera (99 pairs event), threats of physical violence, millions in bribe money, block judging, mafia members being involved, buttering you up, just a non ending string of disgraceful conduct.
    so much hate is not a healthy thing buddy

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotoschool View Post
    Kim should have received more points in tech scores for both the SP and LP because she received the lowest GOE in Sochi for her entire career.
    Quote Originally Posted by gotoschool View Post
    To put it in perspective, Lipnitskaya (in the team) and Sotnikova now have total scores that are higher than Mao Asada, and Gracie Gold’s LP with a fall in Sochi (135) is only one point lower than Asada’s best LP (136) coming into Sochi.
    Mind. boggles.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by usethis2 View Post
    Mind. boggles.
    It gets even better and if your into numerology almost supernatural and conspiratorial in the deviousness of the rigging. Mao Asada's total score in Vancouver 2010 (205.5) is virtually identical to Gracie Gold's total score in Sochi (205.53). I was also wrong about Gold's free-skate score in Sochi. It is actually slightly HIGHER WITH A FALL (136.9) than Mao Asada's highest score coming into Sochi (136.33), which she only got late last year at the NHK trophy. But, Gold's average LP during the Grand Prix season was only 112. Though I was already aware of her inflation, she seems to have snuck under the radar screen for most people because she's not Russian. I really think Mao is at her peak now, but I guess we'll have to see if this inflation bubble for Russia and Gold bursts in Japan in a little over a week.

  9. #54
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    Just my feeling. Figure skate is listed in Olympic event as a sport such as track games (like marathon, short tracks...). I think base value is like how the contestant should run faster. The higher points means more consuming and tough and technically difficult. Miss Sot tried and did better for SP and FS so her total score was higher. It should be because Miss Kim did like walk smiling instead of running hard. It's mean some people keep saying Asada lacks consistency so she should quit. How many times did she joined official games and win in this season? And in sports it is not failure if you do not look like beauty queen, or you are not elegant while run short track. But if you do perfect spin as a result you do look elegant. I hate Cinq.

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