2014 Worlds Junior Ice Dance - Free Dance

blancanieves · Mar 16, 2014

sisinka said:
Skating Skills:
Criteria:
•Balance, rhythmic knee action and precision of foot placement
•Flow and effortless glide
•Cleanness and sureness of deep edges, steps and turns
•Power/energy and acceleration
•Mastery of multi-directional skating
•Mastery of one foot skating
•Equal mastery of technique by both partners shown in unison

I re-watched C&B and H&D FD (talking about SD it would be even longer and for talking about skating skills – FD is longer and thanks to two step sequences in holds more suitable), but this is really of topic. Once again I was influenced by depth of edges and difficulty of programs, while I always appreciate more difficult programs and I also think that skating difficult programs you have to own bigger abilities then those who prefer more easy programs (looking at choreo, not elements parts…all couples from top 20 tries to achieve level 4 elements, so this stops to be interesting when elements are sooo difficult that even couple on 20th place at Olympics is able to make all lifts levels 4 – so it is probably not so difficult and demanding, but I always expect that top couples will do elements and programs which are not-top couples not capable of).

Zachary had around 38 forward and back cross-overs (he is tall but surprisingly he does very think crossovers – in comparison with Nikita it is big difference – wide crossovers always look more elegant), Evan did around 48 cross-overs, both ladies had lesser number.
Re-watching those programs few times…Thanks you so much Krylova, Camerlengo and all team who helped with choreography for NON JUMPING FD, I appreciate it so much (Zachary had only one minor jump during diagonal step sequence). I start to be frightened that so many dancers are doing jumping exercises as much as possible (I&K are already doing throw jump in SD…now only twist and death spiral and it would be complete pair cathegory).
I had to watch C&B twice to count all those bigger jumps, small jumps, partly lifts…25 jumps and I didn’t count jumps into a real lifts – it would be about 3 jumps more. Jumps and cross-overs are making skater‘s life easier – it helps to easily increase speed and jumps protect from changing an edge – you simply jump and you can turn about 180 degree on the air and skate in another direction with better speed, while you have to change direction about 180 degree with help of edge – you put yourself into danger that you will loose some speed (and you need better knee action for making it well). Overall C&B have plenty of cross-overs and helping jumps to increase speed and they really have quite good speed. H&D were really slow at US Nationals, partly because of much more difficult choreo than C&B had but also partly to a fact that they sometimes get more on toe pick which make that noise and makes them slower – this is a mistake, they should balance their blades better. At C&B‘s FD I saw beautiful lifts, but I didn’t see anything difficult beside it in non element parts. H&D had some more difficult and difficult moments in non element parts, but I agree once again that they were slow. But difficulty in programs is not a part of skating skills content suprisingly althought it affects execution of all steps a lot.

I watched skates and blades only – Madison with Zachary had deeper edges than Madison with Evan…and Evan himself - I never noticed it before but he also not extends his free leg even more than Ilinykh and Andrew Poje, he very often doesn’t look so sure on his skates and he is overall poorer technician than Madison.

Coming back to criterias for skating skills: deeper edges goes to H&D, more sureness goes to half pair of C&B and in comparison with Evan to whole pair of H&D. Flow and effortless glide goes to Madison C., but not to Evan B. (this is not very fair to Madison H…talking about effortness – if girls would be in same body shape, than we would be able to compare effortness looking at skating skills only, but comparing effortness when one Madison is much more similar to Meryl and second Madison is like Kaitlyn Osmond‘s body shape, it is not only skating skills what is playing a role in this thing…you can also compare Nikita Katsalapov with Jean-Luc Baker and you can try to gues who would have more effortness skating – it wouldn’t be Nikita). Acceleration of power goes to C&B, but we have to confess that many jumps and cross-overs in their FD help a lot (while H&D have steps and moments in choreo where they can’t increase speed – like that beautiful moments when Madison lays on Zachary‘s leg and they are doing arcs – there is no way how to increase speed in it, you can only not to loose speed). Mastery of one foot skating – more about H&D. Multidirectional skating – I didn’t especially watch this thing, but I suppose that both couples can skate in different directions (definitely Madison and Evan can jump in every corner of stadium, but Evan only skating forward, while Madison also jumps skating backwords). Equal mastery by technique of both – this is not good fof Madison C. and Evan, they are not equal and the difference in technique is still big. Knee action – Madison and Evan don’t have very good knee action, they are far to deep knees, sometimes their knee’s work is fluent but Evan is sotimes stiff. Madison H. with Zachary had deeper knee’s action and fluent on the level of fluent Madison C.

So, my way of view is that H&D are better technicians in comparison with C&B, but I must say that sitting on the stadium and watching skaters live, it creates a different image sometimes, no almost always. Especially music and costumes plays bigger role than on YouTube – in this case I would point C&B ahead. Watching competition live I always watched skaters like a whole package (I didn’t have time even wish to concentrate on blades only) and sometimes when I re-watched the same programs later and started to concentrate on details, I changed my opinion then.

Watching US Nationals live and sitting on tribunes, maybe I would be also persuaded that H&D were so slow that they couldn’t be technically better then C&B, but I am watching YouTube and comparing all things which ISU judging system takes into account and some things which I take like important… I stay on my opinion that even skating slower, H&D are better technicians that C&B. But looking at final scores I realise that judges share your opinion, Doris.

I was lucky to be at Nationals and watch live, and I agree with your "YouTube" assessment. Unfortunately, things like how speed is actually generated/maintained, and the added difficulty of transitioning between elements without relying on hops/crossovers as 'crutches' are being overlooked. Hopefully, at some point the judges will focus on that.

I also have to say, specifically about H/D, that their FD flowed smoothly and portrayed the tempo of the music accurately. If we want to take out the speedometer we can, but the performance level and quality of movement didn't look compromised in the least. Knowing that Hubbell was skating with a torn labrum (she just had it repaired two weeks ago) one can't help but be doubly impressed.

Chemistry66 · Mar 16, 2014

meteorlight8 said:
Are you sure about this? I thought under the new rules both Y/M and E/P will remain jr eligible.
Anyway, congrats to the medalists thought they all did great.

Mozgov and Pang are already 19 and thus too old once the new rules go into effect

caitie · Mar 16, 2014

Chemistry66 said:
Mozgov and Pang are already 19 and thus too old once the new rules go into effect

Do they know that?

Yanovskaia and Mozgov performed a fiery program to Alessandro Safina's "Il Mirtodella Rosa" to win silver with 155.16 points. They gained the same levels as the Americans and also scored high grades of execution (GOEs) from the judges. In their last trip to junior worlds in 2012, the couple was fourth.

"We are very pleased with our day; it was very successful for us," Yanovskaia said. "Right now, we are just happy that we finally reached the podium. We want to stay at the junior level next season."

Chemistry66 · Mar 16, 2014

caitie said:
Do they know that?

Huh.

The age limit is actually has not reached 20 effective this year. Thought it was 19.

"

In International Junior Competitions and ISU Junior Championships a
Junior is a Skater who has met the following requirements before July
1st preceding the event:
i) has reached at least the age of thirteen (13);
ii) has not reached the age of nineteen (19) for Ladies and Men in
singles competition; and
iii) has not reached the age of nineteen (19) for Ladies and the age of
twenty (20) for Men in Pair Skating and Ice Dance competition.

chuckm · Mar 16, 2014

"3. Age limits for Single & Pair Skating / Ice Dance
...
b) In International Junior Competitions and ISU Junior Championships a Junior is a Skater who has met the following requirements before July 1st preceding the event:
i) has reached at least the age of thirteen (13);
ii) has not reached the age of nineteen (19) for Ladies and Men in singles competition; and
iii) has not reached the age of nineteen (19) for Ladies and the age of twenty (20) for Men in Pair Skating and Ice Dance competition.

On 7/1/2014:
Yanovskaya (11/23/96) and Mozgov (03/10/95) will be 17 and 19
Popova (11/02/06) and Vlasenko (11/20/04) will be 17 and 19
Edwards (6/14/96) and Pang (03/05/95) will be 18 and 19
Nazarova (11/30/06) and Nikitin (10/15/04) will be 17 and 19
McNamara (02/18/99) and Carpenter (02/24/96) will be 15 and 18

so are all eligible to skate Junior next season under the new rules

These are the teams who will age out:
HAWAYEK / BAKER USA
KOSYGINA / MOROSHKIN RUS
KIM / MINOV KOR
SMART / BUCKLAND GBR
BENT / MACKEEN CAN
MANSOUR / CESKA CZE
KAVALIOVA / BIELIAIEV BLR
SCHIFFNER / SALATZKI GER
ZHAO / LIU CHN
GLASTRIS / LETTNER GRE
TOMCZAK / BINKOWSKI POL
VADSKJAER GRAPEK / JONES DEN

NorthernDancers · Mar 16, 2014

blue_idealist said:
I loved all the top 3 FDs (didn't watch any others), especially Edwards/Pang. Maybe they'll be the "next ones" in Canada after W/P and maybe P/I and G/P retire.

I agree... Although I'm Canadian, I have to say H/B were truly the class of the field. Just gorgeous dancing, especially with him. These 2 are going places, assuming the DANCE is put back in judging ICE DANCE. The skating skills are simply tremendous. The quality of dance movement. The edges. The lines. Just amazing. Russians were also good, but H/B are something truly special. I agree with someone else who mentioned her on ice celebration didn't match the mood of the dance. With experience and maturity I think they will fix this. That's what coaches are for.

I also think E/P are enormously talented. I take my hat off to these 2. It's been a tough year for them having to straddle both Junior and Senior, and they've had some serious skate/boot issues that sidelined them for quite awhile. Coming back with a bronze medal must feel a bit like gold for them. Dancers have the hardest time skating Junior internationally and Senior nationally. At least the pattern dances had some similarity this year with Finnstep and Quickstep, but it's not that similar next year so it will be even more work. In my opinion, in order to fully realize their potential going forward, I think E/P need to find a David Wilson or maybe Zoueva or K/C in Detroit to better refine and control their skating and programs. (And I think they would benefit by skating and training with other world class teams.) They need much better material, and they need to slow down and really dance. They need to finish their movements, improve positions and posture, and that can't happen when they are speed skating. They have the ability. H/B are #1 for a reason by a big margin. The defining difference is the perfectly timed, quality of dance and movement, with speed coming out of quality movement, not forced.

caitie · Mar 16, 2014

H/B are #1 for a reason by a big margin. The defining difference is the perfectly timed, quality of dance and movement, with speed coming out of quality movement, not forced.

Maybe you just meant over E/P, but H/B actually lost the free dance by a point to the Russian team (who got higher GOE on their elements, both teams had the same levels). They definitely deserved to win, but I wouldn't say they are #1 by a big margin. They came in 2nd at the GPF and really just managed to hang on to the win here on the strength of their short dance.

Thank you chuckm and Chemistry66 for the clarification of which teams are aged out and which can stay in!

NorthernDancers · Mar 16, 2014

caitie said:
Maybe you just meant over E/P, but H/B actually lost the free dance by a point to the Russian team (who got higher GOE on their elements, both teams had the same levels). They definitely deserved to win, but I wouldn't say they are #1 by a big margin. They came in 2nd at the GPF and really just managed to hang on to the win here on the strength of their short dance.

Thank you chuckm and Chemistry66 for the clarification of which teams are aged out and which can stay in!

Yes, that's what I meant. 1st and 2nd were close, but 3rd was a ways behind in the points.

chuckm · Mar 17, 2014

caitie said:
Maybe you just meant over E/P, but H/B actually lost the free dance by a point to the Russian team (who got higher GOE on their elements, both teams had the same levels). They definitely deserved to win, but I wouldn't say they are #1 by a big margin. They came in 2nd at the GPF and really just managed to hang on to the win here on the strength of their short dance.

Considering that Hawayek/Baker were 13 points behind the Russians at the GPF, for them to be able to pass them at JW shows an extraordinary improvement in a very, very short time. Kudos to Angelika Krylova for bringing out the best in them!

dorispulaski · Mar 17, 2014

At the JGPF, H&B got only level 2 on the twizzles, where they made a real error, and only level 2 on both step sequences. That is where the improvement lay. At both events, they received slightly lower PCS than Y&M. The big difference between the 2 teams here was that H&B hit both Quickstep sequences for level 4s, while Y&M got two level threes due to timing errors on the third key point. At the JGPF, H&B received level 3 and 1 for the two sequences, while Y&M received level 4 and 3.

WeakAnkles · Mar 17, 2014

Wow--a dance team won a competition by hitting their levels. That's a shocker!

Actually it should have been close--the Russians are very good and it will be interesting to see how they develop. They strike me as a more Marlie-esque team (big, dynamic) whereas H/B are more Voir-ish. Could be a new rivalry going forward, which would be very exciting. And what will it come down to? Who hits their levels and makes the fewer mistakes.

Some things never change.

valentinka · Mar 17, 2014

Hi to everyone, I am new here.First sorrry for my really bad english

Because there is no thread for the gala ex I will write some things about it.Because it was the first gala ex for me it was really exciting .Elena Radionova showed her zombie dance again and it was great.The ex programs of pair skaters was good too.Generally it was entertaining but the most fun part was when the official ex end and for half an hour skaters showed some of their tricks on ice while we clapping :clap:

-Mozgov and Deputat paired and M. throw away D. for single jump, Pitkeev and Petrov tried a lot side by side jumps, Rad,Med and Serefima have a lot of fun together too.Most of the russian skaters and some of others have a lot of fun on the ice rolling around on the ice and did not want to go.They showed the fun side of them(most active was A Petrov) They were so enjoyable to watch and really made my day

chuckm · Mar 17, 2014

It's interesting that YURI BALKOV was on the judging panel for both JGPF and the JW FD, and Katalin ALPERN was the Referee for both competitions.

Chemistry66 · Mar 17, 2014

chuckm said:
It's interesting that YURI BALKOV was on the judging panel for both JGPF and the JW FD, and Katalin ALPERN was the Referee for both competitions.

Alpern is a coincidence.

"Israeli judge Katalin Alpern stepped in as referee of the ice dance after Mika Saarelainen fell ill. "

http://www.icenetwork.com/news/2014/03/13/69244116/nguyen-jumps-ahead-in-competitive-mens-short

chuckm · Mar 17, 2014

WeakAnkles said:
Wow--a dance team won a competition by hitting their levels. That's a shocker!

Actually it should have been close--the Russians are very good and it will be interesting to see how they develop. They strike me as a more Marlie-esque team (big, dynamic) whereas H/B are more Voir-ish. Could be a new rivalry going forward, which would be very exciting. And what will it come down to? Who hits their levels and makes the fewer mistakes.

Some things never change.

They won't be facing one another again for quite a while. Hawayek/Baker are moving up to senior, while Yanovskaia / Mozgov have decided to remain junior for one more season, I suppose wanting the JW championship on their resume. As Edwards / Pang are planning to stay junior for one more season too for the same reason, that means one of them is going to be disappointed.

dorispulaski · Mar 17, 2014

valentinka said:
Hi to everyone, I am new here.First sorrry for my really bad englishBecause there is no thread for the gala ex I will write some things about it.Because it was the first gala ex for me it was really exciting .Elena Radionova showed her zombie dance again and it was great.The ex programs of pair skaters was good too.Generally it was entertaining but the most fun part was when the official ex end and for half an hour skaters showed some of their tricks on ice while we clapping-Mozgov and Deputat paired and M. throw away D. for single jump, Pitkeev and Petrov tried a lot side by side jumps, Rad,Med and Serefima have a lot of fun together too.Most of the russian skaters and some of others have a lot of fun on the ice rolling around on the ice and did not want to go.They showed the fun side of them(most active was A Petrov) They were so enjoyable to watch and really made my day

Welcome to GS, valentinka! Thanks for telling us about the gala.

Matt K · Mar 18, 2014

WeakAnkles said:
Wow--a dance team won a competition by hitting their levels. That's a shocker!

Actually it should have been close--the Russians are very good and it will be interesting to see how they develop. They strike me as a more Marlie-esque team (big, dynamic) whereas H/B are more Voir-ish. Could be a new rivalry going forward, which would be very exciting. And what will it come down to? Who hits their levels and makes the fewer mistakes.

Some things never change.

I don't think Y/M are like D/W. From the video I could watch of their FD, Y/M have and can hold pretty good leg lines and deep edges at the same time, and have fairly good skating skills; they are more like a combination of Bobrova/Soloviev and Sinitsina/Zhiganshin (minus Bobrova's weird trademark posture). I am hoping Y/M can get packaged well (this year was good) if they remain with Kustarova because they are quite good and talented at the moment.

Hawayek/Baker are very talented too who have great edges. Next year they should add more difficulty in their programs because with their skills I think they can handle it. They skate very close together and hold their lines and edges, which is a bit of a first in US ice dancing.

Sara · Mar 18, 2014

Copied from JW's Fb page:

PRESS CONFERENCE
Ice Dance, after Free Dance

Kaitlin Hawayek/Jean-Luc Baker (USA), 2014 World Junior Champions
Hawayek: This entire season Jean-Luc and I have been preparing for Junior Worlds. From the beginning of the season we’ve said, the Junior World gold medal is our goal. And I think that we worked the hardest this season and we believed the entire season that we could do it and this competition was just a showing of that this season.
(on future plans) At the end of every season we assess the season, see how successful it’s been. Obviously it’s been a quite successful season. We’ll talk with our coaches (and) look at not only what is best for us but what’s going on in the senior level, what teams are staying, which teams are retiring. A lot changes after the Olympic season, because it is the end of a cycle. We just have to discuss with our coaches what is the best decision for us moving forward.

Baker: As for our skate today we’re very pleased. We both know how strong the competition is with Yanovskaya and Mozgov and the Canadians and also the other two American teams. We just wanted to put out a strong performance as well as everyone else. We knew the pressure was on, but we handled it quite well. (on what rules they would change if they could) I was brought up more vintage style ice dance, do ice dance and not look at me how strong I am, I throw my partner like a doll. I assume that’s more pairs. I like to see the dance in ice dance. If they could incorporate that a little more and not so much technique. It’s so hard with the quickstep this year to really show the style of a quickstep, because we are having to do so many technical things we can’t really allow the dance to flow as it was created. It’s hard to do two things at once.

Anna Yanovskaya/Sergey Mozgov (RUS), 2014 World Junior silver medalists
Yanovskaya: We are very pleased with our day, it was very successful for us. We are very happy to be here and to be second. Right now we are just happy that we have a silver medal at the World (Junior) Championship and finally we reached the podium. (on future plans) We want to prepare better for the next season, have more effective programs, try to collect all possible medals at the junior level. We want to stay at the junior level and continue.

Mozgov: The performance was very good, probably the best of the season. We did everything we could do. We are very happy with the performance we added to it whatever we could, but there is no limit to perfection. But we’ll strive for it. (on what rules they would change if they could) I totally agree with what Jean-Luc said, it is the correct position to say that dance should remain dance and not a kind of pairs. The rules become more difficult with each year and it never became easier. It never will be the same as under the 6.0 system when it was much easier to skate.

Madeline Edwards/Zhao Kai Pang (CAN), 2014 World Junior bronze medalists
Edwards: We could not be more pleased to be up here with two amazing teams. Everyone put out some great performances. It’s been a long season for us but we couldn’t be happier to be here. (on what rules they would change if they could) I think what both teams are saying is very important, to keep the dance in ice dance. As we continue to see the growth in athleticism in our sport that we want to keep both aspects. (on coming back from last year’s disappointment at Junior Worlds) I remember standing there last year and watching the medal ceremony and thinking next year we want to be up there. We want to see our flag. It’s very cool that this came true for us. (on future plans) Like Kaitlin said we’ll go back and we’re going to look at our areas of weakness. We’ll begin early with next year’s programs. I think we have one more year junior, so we’ll compete in both junior and senior. We competed both junior and senior this year and I think found it to be a great learning experience to be able to compete with the older and more experienced teams, especially in an Olympic year to be able to watch everyone to prepare for that is actually very cool.

Pang: (on what rules they would change if they could) As long as they keep rewarding dance and keep rewarding good skating I don’t really see any problem with the judging system. (on coming back from last year’s disappointment at Junior Worlds) We didn’t really go into this competition going for redemption or anything. Our coach just told us to focus on the process, going through every motion and really just trust our training. We did, I think.

Ryan O · Mar 19, 2014

It will be interesting to see whether Edwards & Pang begin to overshadow their Senior training mates, Orford & Williams. To some extent they have already begun to do so since E&P were named to the Senior World team as alternates when O&W didn't have the minimum TES score.

Ryan O · Mar 19, 2014

caitie said:
omggg I was just about to say how cute this little 50s dance is from the Canadian team, then they wiped out on their lift! D:

I'm surprised at how poorly Bent & MacKeen did at this event. They seemed very confident all season and had a lot of momentum from winning the Junior Dance title at Canadians in January.

2014 Worlds Junior Ice Dance - Free Dance

blancanieves

Chemistry66

Mmmmm, tacos.

caitie

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chuckm

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WeakAnkles

valentinka

chuckm

Chemistry66

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Matt K

Sara

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