Steven Spielberg thanks Lipnitskaya for playing girl in red of Schindler's List | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Steven Spielberg thanks Lipnitskaya for playing girl in red of Schindler's List

Procrastinator

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
I still don't feel that she ever put actual thought into it. Maybe she just decided she liked the music the most out of several options and then the choreographer and/or coach developed the concept.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
I still don't feel that she ever put actual thought into it. Maybe she just decided she liked the music the most out of several options and then the choreographer and/or coach developed the concept.

That's kind of how it works...
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
I agree. Alas, the one thing I've learned through life is that you can't please everyone. Christopher Hitchens publicly criticized Mother Teresa, whom most people praise as selfless, as a cold authoritarian. On the subject of the Spielberg film, I remember a complaint from a U.S. legislator (can't recall if he was a senator or a congressman) that Spielberg's movie was "immoral" because it showed a nude scene. (That shower scene, in fact.) I think after a quiet talking-to by someone, the representative backpedaled and said that he now understood the context.

Moviemakers make movies; that's how they interpret the world. Spielberg is on record as having made movies since childhood, when he probably used his family's old movie camera and neighborhood kids as his actors. In Schindler's List, he was showing the humiliation of something that really took place, in a bold way that wasn't acceptable in the days when fine movies such as The Diary of Anne Frank or Judgment at Nuremberg were made. Were those movies exploitive, or were they powerful stories that few people could resist trying to film? Closer to our time, did Louis Malle practice cheap voyeurism for profit when he showed a Jewish child passing as a gentile being turned in to authorities by another child in Europa Europa? Malle shot his film on a smaller budget, but he did get paid to make the movie and profited from its release. Doctors and nurses get paid for their work, as do firefighters. It's still work done with integrity. I doubt Spielberg sat there and said, "Gee, I bet I'll bring in a crowd if I show half-starved Jewish guys in the altogether." He'd have had more of an audience by showing hot young guys with oiled muscles, in fact.

Lipnitskaia may have been manipulative in using Schindler's List, but she's also a sentimental teenager, and this subject matter would have been very compelling to her. Maybe as an obscure high school student she'd just have written poetry about the girl, but since she had the opportunity to perform on the world stage, she seized it. And performed very well, might I add. I doubt she was any more manipulative than Paul Wylie, who also used the piece (and who frequently chose emotional or sentimental topics to explore in his programs). And then there's Katarina Witt, who risked a lot of criticism choosing this music because she is a German gentile. I'm sure some people took offense. Some people always will.

Europa Europa was actually directed by Agnieszka Holland. I mention this because women directors never get enough credit for their work (and it's a very good movie). It probably would have won that year's Oscar for Foreign Language Film, but Germany refused to enter it for Oscar consideration.

You might be thinking of Louis Malle's Au Revoir, Les Enfants from 1987. Also a very good movie.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
for the record Julia chose Shindler's List herself after watching the movie so many times and choreographed by ( Ilia Averbukh ) who is Russian-Jewish, so he knew how to package the music and theme to suit Julia
 

poleptina

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Surprise. I man who exploited the victims of genocide for cheap voyeurism and profit (the shower scene from Schindler's List is unforgivable) admires an ice skating routine that trivializes the murder of children.

I don't think her routine trivializes those terrible events-- it reminds us of them by referencing the film. It's evocative, not literal. After the routine, I was led back to the movie to re-watch the the red coat sequence. Still very powerful (for all Spielberg's faults as a director and his schmaltzy tendencies) and sad-- the juxtaposition of Jews being rounded up as children sing "Ofyn Pripetschik." I was moved to look up the words of that lovely song which is about a Rabbi instructing Jewish children in their Hebrew letters. I guess that's an example of how the piece, by affecting a person emotionally, can make them want to learn more about the historical context.
 

Isabel_O'Reilly

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
I still don't feel that she ever put actual thought into it. Maybe she just decided she liked the music the most out of several options and then the choreographer and/or coach developed the concept.

Yulia decided the music for both her programs. Don't Give up on love because it's a Russian pop song she like and SL because she saw the movie and it meant something to her. Her coach tried to talk her out of it and they struggled to find a choreographer but Yulia was adamant. Yulia is also the one who designs and makes her costumes, along with her mother.

To people in general:

I really wish people on here would stop being so critical of her choices, it's frustrating to hear such vitriol.

(Sarcasm) Yeah I really think Yulia had some master plan to pick music that would inevitably manipulate judges and the public into liking her skating.

The source of the music wouldn't make most people like it, the fact that Yulia skates a graceful, poised, and meaningful program to beautiful music is the key point. Just because some people don't think she skates properly to music doesn't invalidate the rest of us, who while thinking she can improve(look how she leaped forward from last year), love her musicality and her skating, now.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
All this doesn't change the fact that there was absolutely no musical interpretation, no emotion, no actual feeling of the music or the story.

There were two Senior Schindler's Lists this season, and hers was the inferior one.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
All this doesn't change the fact that there was absolutely no musical interpretation, no emotion, no actual feeling of the music or the story.

There were two Senior Schindler's Lists this season, and hers was the inferior one.

only to your taste ;)
 

iluvtodd

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Country
United-States
I agree. Alas, the one thing I've learned through life is that you can't please everyone. Christopher Hitchens publicly criticized Mother Teresa, whom most people praise as selfless, as a cold authoritarian. On the subject of the Spielberg film, I remember a complaint from a U.S. legislator (can't recall if he was a senator or a congressman) that Spielberg's movie was "immoral" because it showed a nude scene. (That shower scene, in fact.) I think after a quiet talking-to by someone, the representative backpedaled and said that he now understood the context.

Moviemakers make movies; that's how they interpret the world. Spielberg is on record as having made movies since childhood, when he probably used his family's old movie camera and neighborhood kids as his actors. In Schindler's List, he was showing the humiliation of something that really took place, in a bold way that wasn't acceptable in the days when fine movies such as The Diary of Anne Frank or Judgment at Nuremberg were made. Were those movies exploitive, or were they powerful stories that few people could resist trying to film? Closer to our time, did Louis Malle practice cheap voyeurism for profit when he showed a Jewish child passing as a gentile being turned in to authorities by another child in Europa Europa? Malle shot his film on a smaller budget, but he did get paid to make the movie and profited from its release. Doctors and nurses get paid for their work, as do firefighters. It's still work done with integrity. I doubt Spielberg sat there and said, "Gee, I bet I'll bring in a crowd if I show half-starved Jewish guys in the altogether." He'd have had more of an audience by showing hot young guys with oiled muscles, in fact.

Lipnitskaia may have been manipulative in using Schindler's List, but she's also a sentimental teenager, and this subject matter would have been very compelling to her. Maybe as an obscure high school student she'd just have written poetry about the girl, but since she had the opportunity to perform on the world stage, she seized it. And performed very well, might I add. I doubt she was any more manipulative than Paul Wylie, who also used the piece (and who frequently chose emotional or sentimental topics to explore in his programs). And then there's Katarina Witt, who risked a lot of criticism choosing this music because she is a German gentile. I'm sure some people took offense. Some people always will.


:agree: I also don't feel that Steven Spielberg had any ulterior motive in starting his Shoah (Holocaust) Foundation. Sadly there are still so many Holocaust deniers in this world despite all the evidence that it took place during WW2 (and the years leading up to it).
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Europa Europa was actually directed by Agnieszka Holland. I mention this because women directors never get enough credit for their work (and it's a very good movie). It probably would have won that year's Oscar for Foreign Language Film, but Germany refused to enter it for Oscar consideration.

You might be thinking of Louis Malle's Au Revoir, Les Enfants from 1987. Also a very good movie.


Yipes! Thanks. Serves me right for not verifying before I posted. Of course I was thinking of Au Revoir Les Enfants. Thanks so much for the correction, Ankles.

And Sky, thanks for confirming that Julia had more input in the choice of Schindler's List. I thought I remembered that she had some personal reaction to either the book or the movie, which is how it got onto the radar of the coaching team. This information does cast a different light on Julia's performance. I remember at her age having very strong feelings about both The Diary of Anne Frank (the book; I hadn't yet seen the movie) and Leon Uris's book Exodus, which I read as a young teenager. I think we forget how much deep thought people are capable of at the age of fifteen.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
To the doubters who say Yulia doesn't influence her programs here is an interview with Eteri in 2012 addressing Eteri's approach and Yulia's freedom to choose. It also says in the article that Yulia wanted to not use N.Morozov but instead do the choreography themselves.

Full article is a very good read into the mind of not only an elite skater but thru the mind of her coach!
http://www.absoluteskating.com/index.php?cat=interviews&id=2012tutberidze

Here is an excerpt:

Do you have already some ideas for the next season?

E.T.- Yes, to tell the truth I have already been thinking about it for about a year. I have some ideas, not sure, we'll see. So far Julia hasn't agreed to them, but we'll try...and if Julia doesn't agree with something, then...
- ...it's useless to persuade her. But to tell the truth I don't persuade my students in general. I can try to show them some examples. Suppose the skater doesn't want to wear the dress in some specific style or to skate to some type of music, I can draw her attention: "Look how well it looks [on someone], look how this music emphasizes some strong qualities". And if the skater later comes to this decision, it's already his decision, he wasn't talked into it. I never persuade, but I can lead to something little by little. And after all, it's them who will go on the ice and skate. People around can complain about the colour of the dress but what if she loves it? It's her who skates in it.

On working with Morozov and picking Sabre Dance and certain choreographers not willing to do it...Yulia stuck to her guns:

Was it your initiative to work with him?

E.T.- Yes, mine, I took Julia to him. Actually this season she wondered if we might manage by ourselves, but I think, this collaboration could only do better.

Does he have some kind of vision for Julia? Some individual approach? For example, maybe he looked at her and said: the "Sabre dance"!

E.T.- No, actually the idea of the "Sabre dance" (SP of this season - ed.) came from Julia herself. It's been a few years that she has asked to skate to this music. At the beginning I was appalled by the idea. But somewhere in April they persuaded me to listen to this version - though which "this", they all are the same, sabres here and sabres there - but in the end I actually liked that arrangement. I liked that during the first half of the program you can't even guess it's the "Sabre dance", the most well-known pieces start only during the step sequence. And also maybe it's somewhere close to Julia's character. Though this music is still too intricate. I have a feeling that either people don't mind it or they really don't like it. For example, Sergei Petukhov said flatly: "I won't work on this program, because I simply don't like this music. I don't see it on the ice, I can't do it". Though other experts, like, for example, Sergei Chemodanov, said that this music choice is excellent, this music is Julia, we should take it.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I don't think her routine trivializes those terrible events-- it reminds us of them by referencing the film. It's evocative, not literal. After the routine, I was led back to the movie to re-watch the the red coat sequence. Still very powerful (for all Spielberg's faults as a director and his schmaltzy tendencies) and sad-- the juxtaposition of Jews being rounded up as children sing "Ofyn Pripetschik." I was moved to look up the words of that lovely song which is about a Rabbi instructing Jewish children in their Hebrew letters. I guess that's an example of how the piece, by affecting a person emotionally, can make them want to learn more about the historical context.


And of course, there were two appearances of the girl in the red coat: the first one, where we meet her, and the last one, which you could almost miss if you blink, where we learn her outcome. I thought it was an extraordinarily powerful way to get viewers to follow one individual into the pit of hell, because it's often easy to think of the Holocaust as a total number, rather than individuals like us who each endured a separate fate.

I didn't go to see Schindler's List when it played in theaters, because I honestly feared it would be too strong for me. I saw it the first time it was telecast (with limited commercial breaks and just printed ads by the sponsor during the breaks--no jolly dialogue or catchy jingles). I was struck by its artistry as well as by the innate power of its narrative. There was nothing voyeuristic about it. It was an honest effort by a filmmaker to chronicle not just that time but the deeds of a man who was in many ways the last person you'd think of as a likely rescuer. Oskar Schindler was a libertine, an arms dealer, a man of easy virtue and low morals, and somehow he was moved to take action. What an enigma. I suspect that a lesser filmmaker would have made Amon Goeth a far more dominant figure in the film, but somehow Spielberg was able to make Schindler full enough to command the center of the action. There are so many layers and details in this movie, from the fine performances to tiny effects of the lighting to the use of music, to the end with the real Mrs. Schindler and the real survivors laying stones on Schindler's tombstone. Cheap profiteering is the last thing I'd think of in reference to this movie.

As for Juliya, I agree that she's not the deep artist that some skaters are, at least not yet. But she's a lot better than some naysayers make her out to be, and a lot more promising for her age than many other skaters have been. She's not a robot by any means; she's just not fully developed as an artist or a technician yet. I think a lot of us resent the seeming overmarking of the top Russian girls during this Olympic season, but it doesn't diminish their very real efforts toward skating excellence, which I'm sure they'll achieve in good time unless derailed by (God forbid) injury or body changes. I look forward to seeing more of Juliya. The one thing I really don't warm to about her skating is that leg-by-the-ear move, which looks a bit contortionist to me. (I don't like it where it originated, in rhythmic gymnastics, either, so it must be a matter of my personal reaction.) But there's nothing wrong with her aspiration to make an artistic statement at her age. What serious young girl wouldn't want to make the most of that moment in the spotlight?
 

Nadya

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
All this doesn't change the fact that there was absolutely no musical interpretation, no emotion, no actual feeling of the music or the story.

There were two Senior Schindler's Lists this season, and hers was the inferior one.
That's not a fact, that's an opinion.

I am not a big fan of young skaters in general but I feel this particular program was a success for Yulia's team. This is a rare case of a childlike skater playing a childlike character, not an over-rouged Carmen or a Tosca for which they entirely lack equipment. I wish there were more like it. The program also has very intricate choreography; it almost makes me wish she keeps it for another year to really skate it to perfection.
 

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Sometimes young skaters are so praised for their potential that they stop developing their skills (cough, like Plush) and artistry. They were awarded gold medals before they've reached their potential, so why bother developing? Sometimes just realizing 30-50% of your potential is good enough to win during splatfests.

Dai was someone whose senior debut wasn't that impressive but he developed into one of the most artistic men in figure skating history.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
Good for Julia. Her program in the team and euros was great and now new people know all about SL and maybe even the holocaust

Oh, and people would not know about holocaust otherwise???? Maybe our schools are just better, LOL.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
Oh, and people would not know about holocaust otherwise???? Maybe our schools are just better, LOL.

I know of a few people that had never seen the movie and have a greater respect for the overall tragic event after doing so, purely as a result of Yulia, I guess you could say you're better than them but to me that's just silly. I for one have respect for someone who finds a respectful way to shed light on such a tragic event. Your free as are we to interpret it as we feel.
 

Mista Ekko

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
There are plenty of great films that deal with the Holocaust.

The specific criticism about Spielberg back in the day was not about the cinematic qualities of the Film, Which is a brilliant piece of cinema,
But rather that he wanted to be viewed more respectably by his peers which is why he chose this subject, And the work is not a personal one,
Then again enough people were happy that this story was directed by the highest profile director, Though a lot of people felt specific scenes were
kind of evasive from going too far, Or too artistically made, Like the shower scene mentioned before where instead of being gassed the women are being watered, Thus missing the hole point of bringing the story of the most despicable genocide in the world's history to film.

Kinda like when he made "Munich" and a lot of Israelis where happy that the story would get a film treatment, Only to be let down when realising it's based on a book that focuses on the actions taken by the israeli government and Mossad afterwords, And the questions they raised.

Personnaly i'm happy with both films.

Regarding Lipnitskaya, I do agree she is not quite there yet in her performance, But i don't agree she isn't expressive,
I think she's about to be a great performer and i love that she's into Film.

The program is a tad too much though ;)
But whatever
 

Manitou

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
No, Yulia is very expressive. Comparing, for example, to Yuna who is icy cold and expressionless, Yulia is emotional without having to act emotional. She is natural. She doesn't even know she is emotional. She doesn't even have to do any acting to be a Jewish girl, because when she performs she somehow IS that Jewish girl. And the power of it is that she doesn't even realize that. That's why it is so emotionally strong and captivating.
When Kim Yuna performs she is very self-indulgent. She is showing "look, I am a diva". And she acts a diva.
Yulia is just a girl who is portraying a girl. And it's really haunting.
 
Top