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Thread: Steven Spielberg thanks Lipnitskaya for playing girl in red of Schindler's List

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by caelum View Post
    Surprise. I man who exploited the victims of genocide for cheap voyeurism and profit (the shower scene from Schindler's List is unforgivable) admires an ice skating routine that trivializes the murder of children.
    Could you elaborate?
    The movie features his trademark sentimentality, yes, but overall I thought it was still moving and cinematically accomplished
    Any movie that tackles this subject is going to be bombarded with criticisms but I don't see how it was disrespectful or particularly exploitative, and Spielberg himself is Jewish so I am willing to believe he had pure intentions.

    And the attack on the shower scene is almost cliched yet none of the arguments have any basis imho.

    As for Lipnitskaia's performance, the fact that she wore the red coat and decided to portray the little girl struck me as manipulative but in the end it was still a lovely performance. The choreography itself wasn't ridiculous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pointyourtoe View Post
    Could you elaborate?
    The movie features his trademark sentimentality, yes, but overall I thought it was still moving and cinematically accomplished
    Any movie that tackles this subject is going to be bombarded with criticisms but I don't see how it was disrespectful or particularly exploitative, and Spielberg himself is Jewish so I am willing to believe he had pure intentions.

    And the attack on the shower scene is almost cliched yet none of the arguments have any basis imho.

    As for Lipnitskaia's performance, the fact that she wore the red coat and decided to portray the little girl struck me as manipulative but in the end it was still a lovely performance. The choreography itself wasn't ridiculous.
    I agree. Alas, the one thing I've learned through life is that you can't please everyone. Christopher Hitchens publicly criticized Mother Teresa, whom most people praise as selfless, as a cold authoritarian. On the subject of the Spielberg film, I remember a complaint from a U.S. legislator (can't recall if he was a senator or a congressman) that Spielberg's movie was "immoral" because it showed a nude scene. (That shower scene, in fact.) I think after a quiet talking-to by someone, the representative backpedaled and said that he now understood the context.

    Moviemakers make movies; that's how they interpret the world. Spielberg is on record as having made movies since childhood, when he probably used his family's old movie camera and neighborhood kids as his actors. In Schindler's List, he was showing the humiliation of something that really took place, in a bold way that wasn't acceptable in the days when fine movies such as The Diary of Anne Frank or Judgment at Nuremberg were made. Were those movies exploitive, or were they powerful stories that few people could resist trying to film? Closer to our time, did Louis Malle practice cheap voyeurism for profit when he showed a Jewish child passing as a gentile being turned in to authorities by another child in Europa Europa? Malle shot his film on a smaller budget, but he did get paid to make the movie and profited from its release. Doctors and nurses get paid for their work, as do firefighters. It's still work done with integrity. I doubt Spielberg sat there and said, "Gee, I bet I'll bring in a crowd if I show half-starved Jewish guys in the altogether." He'd have had more of an audience by showing hot young guys with oiled muscles, in fact.

    Lipnitskaia may have been manipulative in using Schindler's List, but she's also a sentimental teenager, and this subject matter would have been very compelling to her. Maybe as an obscure high school student she'd just have written poetry about the girl, but since she had the opportunity to perform on the world stage, she seized it. And performed very well, might I add. I doubt she was any more manipulative than Paul Wylie, who also used the piece (and who frequently chose emotional or sentimental topics to explore in his programs). And then there's Katarina Witt, who risked a lot of criticism choosing this music because she is a German gentile. I'm sure some people took offense. Some people always will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post

    Lipnitskaia may have been manipulative in using Schindler's List, but she's also a sentimental teenager, and this subject matter would have been very compelling to her. Maybe as an obscure high school student she'd just have written poetry about the girl, but since she had the opportunity to perform on the world stage, she seized it. And performed very well, might I add. I doubt she was any more manipulative than Paul Wylie, who also used the piece (and who frequently chose emotional or sentimental topics to explore in his programs). And then there's Katarina Witt, who risked a lot of criticism choosing this music because she is a German gentile. I'm sure some people took offense. Some people always will.
    Why are we assuming that she made this choice and that it wasn't made for her?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Full article is on the link

    I just hope Spielberg includes Gracie Gold too along with Julia
    if he ever does invite cameos for his new films
    oh my god

    copernicus called and gracie gold is not the centre of the universe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Procrastinator View Post
    Why are we assuming that she made this choice and that it wasn't made for her?
    Well there have been several articles that quoted her coach as stating that she (Julia) chose the music.

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    I still don't feel that she ever put actual thought into it. Maybe she just decided she liked the music the most out of several options and then the choreographer and/or coach developed the concept.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Procrastinator View Post
    I still don't feel that she ever put actual thought into it. Maybe she just decided she liked the music the most out of several options and then the choreographer and/or coach developed the concept.
    That's kind of how it works...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I agree. Alas, the one thing I've learned through life is that you can't please everyone. Christopher Hitchens publicly criticized Mother Teresa, whom most people praise as selfless, as a cold authoritarian. On the subject of the Spielberg film, I remember a complaint from a U.S. legislator (can't recall if he was a senator or a congressman) that Spielberg's movie was "immoral" because it showed a nude scene. (That shower scene, in fact.) I think after a quiet talking-to by someone, the representative backpedaled and said that he now understood the context.

    Moviemakers make movies; that's how they interpret the world. Spielberg is on record as having made movies since childhood, when he probably used his family's old movie camera and neighborhood kids as his actors. In Schindler's List, he was showing the humiliation of something that really took place, in a bold way that wasn't acceptable in the days when fine movies such as The Diary of Anne Frank or Judgment at Nuremberg were made. Were those movies exploitive, or were they powerful stories that few people could resist trying to film? Closer to our time, did Louis Malle practice cheap voyeurism for profit when he showed a Jewish child passing as a gentile being turned in to authorities by another child in Europa Europa? Malle shot his film on a smaller budget, but he did get paid to make the movie and profited from its release. Doctors and nurses get paid for their work, as do firefighters. It's still work done with integrity. I doubt Spielberg sat there and said, "Gee, I bet I'll bring in a crowd if I show half-starved Jewish guys in the altogether." He'd have had more of an audience by showing hot young guys with oiled muscles, in fact.

    Lipnitskaia may have been manipulative in using Schindler's List, but she's also a sentimental teenager, and this subject matter would have been very compelling to her. Maybe as an obscure high school student she'd just have written poetry about the girl, but since she had the opportunity to perform on the world stage, she seized it. And performed very well, might I add. I doubt she was any more manipulative than Paul Wylie, who also used the piece (and who frequently chose emotional or sentimental topics to explore in his programs). And then there's Katarina Witt, who risked a lot of criticism choosing this music because she is a German gentile. I'm sure some people took offense. Some people always will.
    Europa Europa was actually directed by Agnieszka Holland. I mention this because women directors never get enough credit for their work (and it's a very good movie). It probably would have won that year's Oscar for Foreign Language Film, but Germany refused to enter it for Oscar consideration.

    You might be thinking of Louis Malle's Au Revoir, Les Enfants from 1987. Also a very good movie.

  9. #24
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    for the record Julia chose Shindler's List herself after watching the movie so many times and choreographed by ( Ilia Averbukh ) who is Russian-Jewish, so he knew how to package the music and theme to suit Julia

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    Quote Originally Posted by caelum View Post
    Surprise. I man who exploited the victims of genocide for cheap voyeurism and profit (the shower scene from Schindler's List is unforgivable) admires an ice skating routine that trivializes the murder of children.
    I don't think her routine trivializes those terrible events-- it reminds us of them by referencing the film. It's evocative, not literal. After the routine, I was led back to the movie to re-watch the the red coat sequence. Still very powerful (for all Spielberg's faults as a director and his schmaltzy tendencies) and sad-- the juxtaposition of Jews being rounded up as children sing "Ofyn Pripetschik." I was moved to look up the words of that lovely song which is about a Rabbi instructing Jewish children in their Hebrew letters. I guess that's an example of how the piece, by affecting a person emotionally, can make them want to learn more about the historical context.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Procrastinator View Post
    I still don't feel that she ever put actual thought into it. Maybe she just decided she liked the music the most out of several options and then the choreographer and/or coach developed the concept.
    Yulia decided the music for both her programs. Don't Give up on love because it's a Russian pop song she like and SL because she saw the movie and it meant something to her. Her coach tried to talk her out of it and they struggled to find a choreographer but Yulia was adamant. Yulia is also the one who designs and makes her costumes, along with her mother.

    To people in general:

    I really wish people on here would stop being so critical of her choices, it's frustrating to hear such vitriol.

    (Sarcasm) Yeah I really think Yulia had some master plan to pick music that would inevitably manipulate judges and the public into liking her skating.

    The source of the music wouldn't make most people like it, the fact that Yulia skates a graceful, poised, and meaningful program to beautiful music is the key point. Just because some people don't think she skates properly to music doesn't invalidate the rest of us, who while thinking she can improve(look how she leaped forward from last year), love her musicality and her skating, now.

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    All this doesn't change the fact that there was absolutely no musical interpretation, no emotion, no actual feeling of the music or the story.

    There were two Senior Schindler's Lists this season, and hers was the inferior one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    All this doesn't change the fact that there was absolutely no musical interpretation, no emotion, no actual feeling of the music or the story.

    There were two Senior Schindler's Lists this season, and hers was the inferior one.
    only to your taste

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I agree. Alas, the one thing I've learned through life is that you can't please everyone. Christopher Hitchens publicly criticized Mother Teresa, whom most people praise as selfless, as a cold authoritarian. On the subject of the Spielberg film, I remember a complaint from a U.S. legislator (can't recall if he was a senator or a congressman) that Spielberg's movie was "immoral" because it showed a nude scene. (That shower scene, in fact.) I think after a quiet talking-to by someone, the representative backpedaled and said that he now understood the context.

    Moviemakers make movies; that's how they interpret the world. Spielberg is on record as having made movies since childhood, when he probably used his family's old movie camera and neighborhood kids as his actors. In Schindler's List, he was showing the humiliation of something that really took place, in a bold way that wasn't acceptable in the days when fine movies such as The Diary of Anne Frank or Judgment at Nuremberg were made. Were those movies exploitive, or were they powerful stories that few people could resist trying to film? Closer to our time, did Louis Malle practice cheap voyeurism for profit when he showed a Jewish child passing as a gentile being turned in to authorities by another child in Europa Europa? Malle shot his film on a smaller budget, but he did get paid to make the movie and profited from its release. Doctors and nurses get paid for their work, as do firefighters. It's still work done with integrity. I doubt Spielberg sat there and said, "Gee, I bet I'll bring in a crowd if I show half-starved Jewish guys in the altogether." He'd have had more of an audience by showing hot young guys with oiled muscles, in fact.

    Lipnitskaia may have been manipulative in using Schindler's List, but she's also a sentimental teenager, and this subject matter would have been very compelling to her. Maybe as an obscure high school student she'd just have written poetry about the girl, but since she had the opportunity to perform on the world stage, she seized it. And performed very well, might I add. I doubt she was any more manipulative than Paul Wylie, who also used the piece (and who frequently chose emotional or sentimental topics to explore in his programs). And then there's Katarina Witt, who risked a lot of criticism choosing this music because she is a German gentile. I'm sure some people took offense. Some people always will.

    I also don't feel that Steven Spielberg had any ulterior motive in starting his Shoah (Holocaust) Foundation. Sadly there are still so many Holocaust deniers in this world despite all the evidence that it took place during WW2 (and the years leading up to it).

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    Europa Europa was actually directed by Agnieszka Holland. I mention this because women directors never get enough credit for their work (and it's a very good movie). It probably would have won that year's Oscar for Foreign Language Film, but Germany refused to enter it for Oscar consideration.

    You might be thinking of Louis Malle's Au Revoir, Les Enfants from 1987. Also a very good movie.

    Yipes! Thanks. Serves me right for not verifying before I posted. Of course I was thinking of Au Revoir Les Enfants. Thanks so much for the correction, Ankles.

    And Sky, thanks for confirming that Julia had more input in the choice of Schindler's List. I thought I remembered that she had some personal reaction to either the book or the movie, which is how it got onto the radar of the coaching team. This information does cast a different light on Julia's performance. I remember at her age having very strong feelings about both The Diary of Anne Frank (the book; I hadn't yet seen the movie) and Leon Uris's book Exodus, which I read as a young teenager. I think we forget how much deep thought people are capable of at the age of fifteen.

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