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Thread: Help with Scoring along with Competitions

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    Tripping on the Podium Nathan13's Avatar
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    Help with Scoring along with Competitions


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    So I love doing my own live scoring while watching competitions. Scoring PCS is easy (as in, it is easy to record, not always easy to decide). However, it is really difficult to give GOEs on technical elements, especially without planned content. I realize that I can't get the levels or URs that the tech controller is calling live. But I can go back through and edit accordingly once protocols are up.

    I'm hoping to score at least singles for Four Continents...But I am wondering if anyone has ideas on the following:

    1) Where to find planned elements before the competition begins? I've only ever seen GSers post links to tweets with planned elements--is that the best bet, and if so, who should I follow on twitter?

    2) Is there a scoring app that I can put info into and it calculates the total score for me? That would be too good to be true. If not...

    3) Where can I find the formulas to properly factor in GOEs, PCS, etc.? I've seen posts on here of calculations for individual judges' total scores and placements, and I'm wondering where these calculations and formulas come from.

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    Just out of curiosity, are you more interested in the numbers or in the thought processes of judges or technical specialists?

    Also, are you able to identify elements as they happen in real time (what they are, not the details that might require review or another set of eyes -- e.g., 3Lz+3T or CCoSp or StSq)? For myself, I find it's easier to just watch the program and write down what the skater does, rather than compare to a written plan that they might not follow.

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    Tripping on the Podium Nathan13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Just out of curiosity, are you more interested in the numbers or in the thought processes of judges or technical specialists?

    Also, are you able to identify elements as they happen in real time (what they are, not the details that might require review or another set of eyes -- e.g., 3Lz+3T or CCoSp or StSq)? For myself, I find it's easier to just watch the program and write down what the skater does, rather than compare to a written plan that they might not follow.
    Thanks for your reply!
    I guess I would say that I'm more interested in the numbers. I can basically tell what elements are happening (jumps definitely, spins/footwork generally, levels not so much). I find it easier to have the planned elements so that I don't have to scramble to write them down and potentially miss something, but the more I think about it, it might be easier to just to give a GOE in the order that it happens and worry about BV later.

    What I am really in need of is an explanation of factoring, and how to calculate a factored GOE values and a factored PCS total. I really like doing my own scoring and then comparing it to the judges' scores, and seeing how close that I am.

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    Unfortunately, I don't know that the scoring information can be easily found all in one place.

    The general overview is in the Special Regulations and Technical Rules, which remain in effect for 2 years after each ISU Congress, held in even year summers. See Rule 353. There haven't been a lot of changes this part of the scoring rules in the decade-plus that the IJS has been in effect.

    Then there are the ISU Communications that give the latest details currently in effect. For your purposes, the Scale of Values is the most relevant part.
    http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pai...communications

    Those communications tend to show changes every spring/summer and often have additional clarifications added later in subsequent communications weeks or months later. For Singles and Pairs, the currently active ISU Communications are #2000 and 2014.
    For Ice Dancing, see Communications #1998, 2003, 2015, and 2019.

    Then there are also technical panel handbooks that tell the tech panels how to call most situations, but they don't deal with the numbers directly.

    I'm not sure if there's an accounting document that sums it all up in one place.

  5. #5
    Tripping on the Podium Nathan13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Unfortunately, I don't know that the scoring information can be easily found all in one place.

    The general overview is in the Special Regulations and Technical Rules, which remain in effect for 2 years after each ISU Congress, held in even year summers. See Rule 353. There haven't been a lot of changes this part of the scoring rules in the decade-plus that the IJS has been in effect.

    Then there are the ISU Communications that give the latest details currently in effect. For your purposes, the Scale of Values is the most relevant part.
    http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pai...communications

    Those communications tend to show changes every spring/summer and often have additional clarifications added later in subsequent communications weeks or months later. For Singles and Pairs, the currently active ISU Communications are #2000 and 2014.
    For Ice Dancing, see Communications #1998, 2003, 2015, and 2019.

    Then there are also technical panel handbooks that tell the tech panels how to call most situations, but they don't deal with the numbers directly.

    I'm not sure if there's an accounting document that sums it all up in one place.
    Scale of Values is exactly what I was looking for--thank you!! This is probably a dumb question, but do you know what V and V1 stand for on the header next to Base?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan13 View Post
    This is probably a dumb question, but do you know what V and V1 stand for on the header next to Base?
    It's not dumb, but it is explained elsewhere in the Communication #2000 document.

    For jumps:
    1.Full rotation: signs < and << indicate an error. The base values of the jumps with a sign < are listed in the column V of the SOV table. The jump with a sign << is evaluated with SOV for the same jump one revolution less.
    2. Correct take-off edge in F/Lz: signs “e” and “!” indicate an error. The base values of the jumps with the sign “e” are listed in the column V of the SOV table. The sign “!” allows to keep full original base value of the jump. If both signs < and “e” are applied for the same jump, the base values are listed in the column V1 of the SOV table.
    For spins,
    1. For flying spins (with no change of foot and only one position) and spins with flying entrance of both Short Program and Free Skating the following is required: a clear visible jump. The sign “V” indicates that this requirement is not fulfilled. The base values of spins with the sign “V“ are listed in the column V of the SOV table.
    2. The base values of spin combinations with only 2 basic positions (at least 2 revolutions in each of these positions) are
    also reflected in the column V of the SOV table.
    So basically, for the execution errors (or choice to do an easier element in the case of a combo spin with two positions) that are supposed to result in lower base value independent of GOE, instead just saying that the base value is 70% or 50% of the original, they actually give the rounded numbers that are to be used instead. The GOE values stay the same.

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