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Thread: Selection procedures for ISU judging panels

  1. #46
    Yuzulia & Ruslena Team Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    ETA: I could see why she wouldn't be bothered judging ice dance, as Russia didn't have a possible winning horse in the race this year.
    It's not that she doesn't bother. She can not be a judge in ice dance anymore. You're naive if you think that for Russia was not important to win bronze.


    @capcomeback

    It's nearly impossible to get rid of every conflict of interest, but you can put a dent in it by stating that no judge may officiate at any senior international event if they are, or have been within the previous two years, an officer or administrator of a national or regional skating body. This would include the spouses of such individuals
    What about those individuals who are not married to Fed Presidents, or vice presidents, but are actually holding these official position themselves?

  2. #47
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    This is a bit OT: But isn't there judges roundtables where judges meet with the skaters. I always hear to skaters referring to the "feedback" they get from judges. At first I thought it was protocols, but then I started noticing "judge's roundtables" on the schedule at GPs and Worlds.

    Couldn't the media have a similar roundtable where they can ask judge questions about the protocols?

  3. #48
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    Then there are the tech panels. I find it very questionable that Katalin ALPERN is so often picked to Referee or sit as the Technical Controller on Ice Dance panels that are considered important.

    She was the GPF Ice Dance Referee.
    She was the Ice Dance Technical Controller at CoR (Alla Shekhovtseva was the Referee)
    She was the Olympic Ice Dance Referee, both Team and Singles
    She was the JW Ice Dance Referee

    Alpern is supposedly from ISR but in Soviet times, she judged for Hungary

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    This is a bit OT: But isn't there judges roundtables where judges meet with the skaters. I always hear to skaters referring to the "feedback" they get from judges. At first I thought it was protocols, but then I started noticing "judge's roundtables" on the schedule at GPs and Worlds.
    As far as I know, that refers to a debriefing between the judges and the referee, without skaters, press, or public in attendance.

    I do know that at Worlds the ice dance technical committee has (sometimes?) held meetings open to skaters and press.
    I did manage to attend the one at 1998 Worlds by signing in as press. It wasn't about dissecting the event just concluded though -- it was an introduction to the next year's OD (now short dance) and general discussion about issues with the venue, with scoring rules, etc.

    I don't know whether singles/pairs has ever done the same thing.

    Skaters may get feedback from judges in their own federation through formal monitoring processes, or less formally from judges that they set up private monitoring sessions. Some club competitions in the US offer critiques by selected officials on the panel to any skater who signs up in advance.

    Couldn't the media have a similar roundtable where they can ask judge questions about the protocols?
    I think this would be good if the goal was communication and education.

    If it started out with journalists witch hunting judges, assuming every decision they disagree with must be corrupt until proven otherwise, it would not help really explain the judging and would only make the ISU more defensive.

    So I'd say format it in a way to allow the officials to explain their thought processes in as much detail as they feel necessary. Let that become the norm. Audiences and journalists would learn more and be able to ask better questions.

    Start it in a post-Olympic year, so by the time the next Olympics rolls around there would already be some goodwill between well-meaning journalists and well-meaning officials. Hopefully there would be no scandals at the next Olympics. But if officials do try to manipulate results, journalists could do a better job of investigating if they have a better idea of which results are questionable and which are just unpopular.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    It's not that she doesn't bother. She can not be a judge in ice dance anymore. You're naive if you think that for Russia was not important to win bronze.
    This was corrected in an earlier post. Alla Shekhovtseva can sit on an ice dance panel, but no more than two in a competition year. She apparently feels she can spread her influence around quite a bit more by judging ladies AND refereeing and/or techcontrolling ice dance. Note that judges aren't allowed to sit on more than two GP panels. Alla sat on both Adelina's GP events and on the GPF. And on Euros. And on Olympics. But there's no RUS judge on the ladies panel at Worlds, so maybe that's why Adelina isn't competing there.

  6. #51
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    I think this would be good if the goal was communication and education.

    If it started out with journalists witch hunting judges, assuming every decision they disagree with must be corrupt until proven otherwise, it would not help really explain the judging and would only make the ISU more defensive.

    So I'd say format it in a way to allow the officials to explain their thought processes in as much detail as they feel necessary. Let that become the norm. Audiences and journalists would learn more and be able to ask better questions.

    Start it in a post-Olympic year, so by the time the next Olympics rolls around there would already be some goodwill between well-meaning journalists and well-meaning officials. Hopefully there would be no scandals at the next Olympics. But if officials do try to manipulate results, journalists could do a better job of investigating if they have a better idea of which results are questionable and which are just unpopular.

    All this!

    I find that 99 percent of the time, the media is not looking for a witch hunt, contrary to what some may think. It only becomes a witch hunt because they are confused and are searching for answers (i.e. grasping for straws).

    Here's what I think could happen; make it sort of like speed dating. You have each of the judges at a table. Then you have groups of media (I'd say 3-5 reporters each) and allow them 15 minutes with each judge. The first 5 minutes can be an introduction by the judge and opening remarks than 10 minutes for questions from the reporters.

    Then there could be a point person for the judges who can field additional questions after the speed dating or to arrange follow-up interviews.

    But I agree, building relationships is key. I think even the act of offering a roundtable/speed dating session makes a big difference and I believe that both sides would benefit.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 03-18-2014 at 03:59 PM.

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    Of course, many news outlets send sports reporters to cover Olympics who never cover any other figure skating events, so Olympics will still have the problem of media being confused and grasping for straws.

  8. #53
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Of course, many news outlets send sports reporters to cover Olympics who never cover any other figure skating events, so Olympics will still have the problem of media being confused and grasping for straws.
    Still there are opportunities....if the ISU is intent (which it may or may not be) in assuring fair and accurate coverage it should put some priority in reaching out to media. IF anything, perhaps the question of why media don't go to other ISU events is worth asking.

    Chances are a majority of media outlets don't because of money. They save all their international travel for hte big events. So perhaps ISU could provide a feed to their live stream.

    Again, relationship building.

  9. #54
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    They are chosen according to this criteria: 1) delusion, 2) stupidity, 3) subjectivity, 4) malleability, 5) emotional weakness, 6) corruptibility

  10. #55
    Yuzulia & Ruslena Team Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    This was corrected in an earlier post. Alla Shekhovtseva can sit on an ice dance panel, but no more than two in a competition year. She apparently feels she can spread her influence around quite a bit more by judging ladies AND refereeing and/or techcontrolling ice dance. Note that judges aren't allowed to sit on more than two GP panels. Alla sat on both Adelina's GP events and on the GPF. And on Euros. And on Olympics. But there's no RUS judge on the ladies panel at Worlds, so maybe that's why Adelina isn't competing there.
    Well, I don't know about that. It's pure speculation.

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