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Thread: 59th Eurovision Song Contest

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by samkrut@mail.ru View Post
    Sounds like you are my former countrymate or a citizen of one of the FSU countries: you know a lot about what's going on but with a very strong opinion flavor. Ivan Okhlobystin was technically a priest just for a while. But in fact it was a show act all the time. But an orthodox show act in the contrast to a tolerance show act which Wurst is. As for what was exactly in the studio, I cannot say - it was about 3 a.m. - I am not crazy about Eurovision and politics in general to stay that late for this. The composition of the audience in the studio was very mixed though - that I know. And opinions varied Kirkorov - producer of our twins supported Wurst same as some others. For one thing, it takes just a little bit of unspotted knowledge of what's going on to not base the judgement on the announcements of freaks like Zhirinovskij and Okhlobystin. I am much more concerned with would be president Yulia Timoshenko asking to "kill them all" in the East. Once again look at the popular vote: this is Russia not Okhlobystin who needs something outrageous to survive. Again if you already "know" that Russia is hypocritical and is to laugh this dialogue is fruitless.
    We certainly have our own share of pandering crackpots like Okhlobystin in the USA. I'm far less concerned about Okhlobystin than I am over a television network that would allow such remarks to air without comment, to a studio audience that would applaud the idea of burning anyone alive, and to a more general public, politicians and media who heard such comments and, for the most part, said or did nothing about them. Compare that to brouhaha raised by Donald Sterling's racist remarks in the USA. You can shrug it off as PC, but I for one think a good deal of politics could use major corrections. And the personal is often VERY political.

    As far as hypocrisy, I am speaking about what I have seen on this board. You have apparently NO problem with someone condemning the entire Western hemisphere as "brainwashed." Nor, given the deafening silence to the remark, does any Russian member of this board. But the protest come loud and fast when Russia, or events that take place in Russia, or have Russian participants are criticized at all. Apparently gross generalizations are only intolerable when Russia is the target of them. Yes, there is a word for that in English and the word is "hypocritical."

    As far as the Eurovision Song Contest, it has a long history of awarding its top prize to novelty acts and songs. And one would be hard-pressed to find an act more "novel" than a bearded drag performer. Oh but no, it's all really a conspiracy for the West to exhibit more anti-Russian bias.

    Gimme a break.

  2. #77
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    Likewise, have you ever tried to listen to the other standpoint? Why would you expect someone from Russia to be sympathetic to the ongoing accusation spree? I am personally totally against generalizations based on individual remarks. They are fundamentally wrong. It takes just reading BBC board to fully understand that "the West" is not united in its attitude towards Wurst. And more or less united in denunciation of the Russian twins booing in Kopenhagen. Then I am not with the person saying that the whole Western hemisphere is brainwashed. But this hemisphere has enough advocates already, including you - why would I bother?

    As for Eurovision, I never vote. But if I did this time, I would do it for the Netherlands with Austria coming second - the act was good. And she/he might be even successful with the concerts for a while - as novelty stays. As for the long-term potential and the success with CD sales - I am not sure: looked like a one-time show to me. Finally, one can argue that it is due to the blind patriotism. But the fact is - it is the Russian twins song that occupies my head for the last several days although I am not that big fan of pop music in the first place.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by samkrut@mail.ru View Post
    Likewise, have you ever tried to listen to the other standpoint? Why would you expect someone from Russia to be sympathetic to the ongoing accusation spree? I am personally totally against generalizations based on individual remarks. They are fundamentally wrong. It takes just reading BBC board to fully understand that "the West" is not united in its attitude towards Wurst. And more or less united in denunciation of the Russian twins booing in Kopenhagen. Then I am not with the person saying that the whole Western hemisphere is brainwashed. But this hemisphere has enough advocates already, including you - why would I bother?

    As for Eurovision, I never vote. But if I did this time, I would do it for the Netherlands with Austria coming second - the act was good. And she/he might be even successful with the concerts for a while - as novelty stays. As for the long-term potential and the success with CD sales - I am not sure: looked like a one-time show to me. Finally, one can argue that it is due to the blind patriotism. But the fact is - it is the Russian twins song that occupies my head for the last several days although I am not that big fan of pop music in the first place.
    Similarly, how can you expect anyone from this board who criticizes, for example, the exceedingly questionable scoring at Cup of Russia and is then hit with a barrage of comments from Russian and pro-Russian board members that they "hate Russia" to be sympathetic? It's a two-way street. Frankly, people here on the whole don't hate Russia or have an "anti-Russian bias." They hate CRAPPY JUDGING. It wouldn't matter if it was Cup of Antarctica and Antarctican skaters started seeing their scores rise in previously unprecedented ways. But if every time someone tried to point this out and say, hey something is not right here, and got hit with Antarctican board members saying "oh you just hate Antarctica" and "well there's plenty of judging bias and shenanigans going on at the Asian/European/North American Cups" while they criticize everyone else, then I'd call them hypocrites too.

    As far as the BBC board, I would think twice before saying ANY board is going to be representative of the entire general population. Frankly, most people don't take the time or simply can't be bothered to post on boards.

    As a Russian figure skating fan (I'll get back to Eurovision in a moment), you have two problems. First, and correct me if I'm wrong, but almost every single major skating scoring controversy for the last 50 years has either involved a Russian skater, a Russian judge or a competition held in Russia. It's only human nature to be skeptical when ANOTHER scoring controversry arises involving, yet again, either a Russian skater, judge or competition. And second, the situation in Ukraine isn't helping matters. People weren't booing the Russian twins per se. They were expressing their feelings about what is going on in Ukraine. Events don't happen in a bubble. For heaven's sake, I'm a gay American. Don't you think I've heard more than my share of anti-American homophobic remarks? But I try not to counter them with knee-jerk comments like "Oh you just hate America" and "You're just a homophobe" or assume that everyone is against me, my country, and my sexual orientation. What good would it be to be that thin-skinned? Nor do I insist that every American politician and LGBT rights group shouldn't be criticized. Frankly, a good many American politicians are dangerous idiots and I simply don't agree with a good deal of LGBT rhetoric.

    Well bully for you for loving the Russian twins' song. But you can't expect that your personal taste is going to be shared by everyone--or anyone--else. That's why I often post the phrase De gustibus non est disputandum on here. Because how can you argue about taste? But when someone doesn't agree with my taste I don't assume it's some kind of anti-American, anti-gay, anti-anything conspiracy either. Geez Louise! I just figure they have Bad Taste.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post

    As a Russian figure skating fan (I'll get back to Eurovision in a moment), you have two problems. First, and correct me if I'm wrong, but almost every single major skating scoring controversy for the last 50 years has either involved a Russian skater, a Russian judge or a competition held in Russia. It's only human nature to be skeptical when ANOTHER scoring controversry arises involving, yet again, either a Russian skater, judge or competition. And second, the situation in Ukraine isn't helping matters. People weren't booing the Russian twins per se. They were expressing their feelings about what is going on in Ukraine.
    I cannot relate to this. There were many judging controversies in FS during the last 50 years. Most of the ones before the 90s that included the Russians could be attributed to the Cold War that was still on. As for the recent ones, I could recollect Canadian dance team placed after Americans in FS in Sochi and Kostner's score in Japan. Then, I believe, your generalization (and it was smart to use "almost") is not correct. As for Ukraine, unfortunately, it is a new round of the Cold War, and propaganda is doing its best to polarize the general public on the both sides. But the main victims of the war between Obama's and Putin's egos are every day Ukrainians. Once again, the popular vote in Russia shows the overall sympathy to Ukraine. But it is the same in Ukraine: the televote placed Russia on the 3rd place. I am not talking politics - what is going on there is just lamentable. Once again, do not judge based on CNN (same as Russia 1). Talk to the people if you can. I can: my parents-in-law are the Russians living in Western Ukraine.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by samkrut@mail.ru View Post
    I cannot relate to this. There were many judging controversies in FS during the last 50 years. Most of the ones before the 90s that included the Russians could be attributed to the Cold War that was still on. As for the recent ones, I could recollect Canadian dance team placed after Americans in FS in Sochi and Kostner's score in Japan. Then, I believe, your generalization (and it was smart to use "almost") is not correct. As for Ukraine, unfortunately, it is a new round of the Cold War, and propaganda is doing its best to polarize the general public on the both sides. But the main victims of the war between Obama's and Putin's egos are every day Ukrainians. Once again, the popular vote in Russia shows the overall sympathy to Ukraine. But it is the same in Ukraine: the televote placed Russia on the 3rd place. I am not talking politics - what is going on there is just lamentable. Once again, do not judge based on CNN (same as Russia 1). Talk to the people if you can. I can: my parents-in-law are the Russians living in Western Ukraine.
    And yet you can't seem to "recollect" a recent scoring controversy involving a single Russian skater, only those that involve skaters from the West. This is EXACTLY what I mean--and why it is difficult for me (to say the least!) to have much sympathy for Russian posters on this board who feel so so eternally persecuted. Oh and for the record, the Voir/Marlie "conspiracy" was alleged--without any proof whatsoever--by an anonymous Russian coach. I guess you failed to "recollect" that as well.

    As far as Ukraine, please don't even go there with Obama and the US, who is REacting to events, not creating them. The situation is lamentable, and the world is lamenting. Unfortunately sometimes it takes the form of booing singers who have nothing to do with the crisis there.

  6. #81
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    Looks like you are happy with your beliefs - I am OK with mine. As they are light years away from each other, see no point to continue. All the best to you.

  7. #82
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    Same to you.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    And yet you can't seem to "recollect" a recent scoring controversy involving a single Russian skater, only those that involve skaters from the West. This is EXACTLY what I mean--and why it is difficult for me (to say the least!) to have much sympathy for Russian posters on this board who feel so so eternally persecuted. Oh and for the record, the Voir/Marlie "conspiracy" was alleged--without any proof whatsoever--by an anonymous Russian coach. I guess you failed to "recollect" that as well.

    As far as Ukraine, please don't even go there with Obama and the US, who is REacting to events, not creating them. The situation is lamentable, and the world is lamenting. Unfortunately sometimes it takes the form of booing singers who have nothing to do with the crisis there.
    The US is just, "reacting" to the events in Ukraine? Are you serious? Did you not hear Nuland's lovely little phone chat where she talked about exactly who was going to be in the new government? Did you not hear about the fact that the US government put in billions to, "help Ukraine achieve a democratic government", and then supported a group of unelected people who rose to power? Did you not see the videos (which the western media never covered), where unarmed Mariupol citizens were brutally shot down by the Ukrainian army which was ordered to do so by this US-supported government? The US is heavily involved in Ukraine. Yes, Russia is no fairy godmother either, but saying that the US is less involved than Russia is in Ukraine is wrong.

    EDIT: Go watch Jennifer Psaki evade questions about US involvement in Ukraine. She hasn't been able to come up with a single intelligent and/or complete response to a Ukraine question so far.

  9. #84
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    My favorite was Armenia. Conchita's song was good, but it wasn't my favorite.

    Edit: people making fun of Conchita should stop though. It's so rude.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by AliceInWonderland View Post
    The US is just, "reacting" to the events in Ukraine? Are you serious? Did you not hear Nuland's lovely little phone chat where she talked about exactly who was going to be in the new government? Did you not hear about the fact that the US government put in billions to, "help Ukraine achieve a democratic government", and then supported a group of unelected people who rose to power? Did you not see the videos (which the western media never covered), where unarmed Mariupol citizens were brutally shot down by the Ukrainian army which was ordered to do so by this US-supported government? The US is heavily involved in Ukraine. Yes, Russia is no fairy godmother either, but saying that the US is less involved than Russia is in Ukraine is wrong.

    EDIT: Go watch Jennifer Psaki evade questions about US involvement in Ukraine. She hasn't been able to come up with a single intelligent and/or complete response to a Ukraine question so far.
    I will defer to your greater knowledge of the situation.

  11. #86
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    I didn't like the song of the guy in the drag queen costume, not at all. I enjoyed Armenia entry, and one more, but I don't remember whether it was Netherlands...There no word about Eurovision in Canada. All what I watched is what is posted on youtube.

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