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Thread: Vassily Solovyov: "You Can't Tell the Truth About Figure Skaters"

  1. #31
    Landing 3As in my dreams! skatedreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly View Post
    Actually he said, "If the games were held in Torino, and Kostner skated the way she did, she'd be the gold medalist. If the games were held in Korea, there wouldn't even a question that Kim would become the champion."
    Which means he thinks home cooking pretty much trumps everything else. IMO, that's the most depressing aspect. I always have high hopes for US skaters but certainly don't want them to win at the expense of judging integrity.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    I'm just waiting for qwertyskates' interpretation of Solovyov's remarks as an endorsement of the ladies' scoring in Sochi.
    Don't have to be snarky about it. Before Sochi, a few of us here ALREADY had a thread about Hanyu's PCS inflation over the GP quad resulting in a spike in PCS leading to his gold at GPF in Fukuoka Japan. The difference between Yuna fans and I is that when it happened in competitions which did not involve Yuna, even when the PCS spike is more egregious, they simply do not notice nor do they particularly care. So much for the indignant "it's all about bringing fairness to judging"!

    My conclusion is of course home inflation is at work *EVERYWHERE*. I am at least not hypocritical in *ONLY* singling out the Russians. I came around to accepting it not because I agree with home inflation but because the huge PCS difference would make it almost impossible for a younger skater like Hanyu or Adelina to compete against veterans like Chan and Kim on a level playing field. There is no way to bridge a PCS gap of >20, with jumps, steps, spins. Do 10 quads like Javier Fernandez joked about?

    Unlike those who cried foul *ONLY* for Adelina but not for all the other skaters who have enjoyed the same favors, I am at least honest, consistent and balanced in applying my judgment and standards. I am also not the type who will go and rend apart the programs of those who beat my own favored skaters. There and then, I concluded that Sochi would see younger skaters getting a stab at beating the veterans, and it would be a battle of the TES.

  3. #33
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    The last time there was a US world's was L.A. in 2009.

    The US Fed cares most about ladies. Rachel Flatt, the highest US Lady, was 5th.

    Lysacek won men's. However, looking at the lineup, he probably deserved it. A very young Chan was 2nd with a messed up combo, Joubert 3rd with a fall and a messed up 2a.

    In dance, there was no US judge on the panel. B&A should have won and didn't.

    Top US pair was ninth.

    A set of reasons why I have felt that USFSA was not the very best home-cooker.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyskates View Post
    Don't have to be snarky about it. Before Sochi, a few of us here ALREADY had a thread about Hanyu's PCS inflation over the GP quad resulting in a spike in PCS leading to his gold at GPF in Fukuoka Japan. The difference between Yuna fans and I is that when it happened in competitions which did not involve Yuna, even when the PCS spike is more egregious, they simply do not notice nor do they particularly care. So much for the indignant "it's all about bringing fairness to judging"!

    My conclusion is of course home inflation is at work *EVERYWHERE*. I am at least not hypocritical in *ONLY* singling out the Russians. I came around to accepting it not because I agree with home inflation but because the huge PCS difference would make it almost impossible for a younger skater like Hanyu or Adelina to compete against veterans like Chan and Kim on a level playing field. There is no way to bridge a PCS gap of >20, with jumps, steps, spins. Do 10 quads like Javier Fernandez joked about?

    Unlike those who cried foul *ONLY* for Adelina but not for all the other skaters who have enjoyed the same favors, I am at least honest, consistent and balanced in applying my judgment and standards. I am also not the type who will go and rend apart the programs of those who beat my own favored skaters. There and then, I concluded that Sochi would see younger skaters getting a stab at beating the veterans, and it would be a battle of the TES.
    Except if you check my post history I have always been extremely critical of any political and artificial inflation of any kind, including Hanyu's recent ascension especially at home events, in particular in the area of PCS, AS WELL as Patrick's marks at home. EVEN they are among my favourite male skaters.

    I actually predicted Hanyu to be an OGM before he hit the seniors and think his original Romeo and Juliet is one of the greatest programs this quad along with Patrick's Elegie and Dai's 2011 programs Garden of Souls and Blues for Klooks, but this is the not the way I want him win, nor Patrick lose it. The men's FS event was tragic, I doubt I will ever replay any of the performances except may be Abbotts if I am really bored.

  5. #35
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    The last time there was a US world's was L.A. in 2009. In dance, there was no US judge on the panel. B&A should have won and didn't.
    You mean Davis/White should have won.

    Belbin/Agosto deserved to win the OD but their FD was really awful. They should have been off the podium.

  6. #36
    Love popcorn, hate horendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Except if you check my post history I have always been extremely critical of any political and artificial inflation for all skaters, including Hanyu's recent ascension especially at home events, AS WELL as Patrick's marks at home. EVEN they are among my favourite male skaters.

    I actually predicted Hanyu to be an OGM before he hit the seniors and think his original Romeo and Juliet is one of the greatest programs this quad along with Patrick's Elegie and Dai's 2011 programs Garden of Souls and Blues for Klooks, but this is the not the way I want him win, nor Patrick lose it. The men's FS event was tragic, I doubt I will ever replay any of the performances except may be Abbotts if I am really bored.
    I really favor Patrick cause he is more of an all-rounded skater, but to be fair if he won the gold at Sochi with THAT performance (with PCS over the top like 98?) then I would be devastated. He was like sleepwalking through his free skate and I was so so so...sad to see him like that.

    While I can't stand Yuzuru's free skate this season (mostly at his 4S and the juliet costume), I still think his PCS, while should not be over 90, deserve to be around 87 to 88. And even that PCS is enough for him to win, thanks to his TES. I did mention that in men free skate thread.

    Frankly, i think this should be ideal: if you fall or make too many mistake, your PCS should drop, too. This would lead us to a more reasonable score. Nevertheless, I do think the placement of men is right this time (Thanks to Plushy who withdrew), even at GPF in which Yuzuru's PCS at free skate suddenly skyrocketed to over 90, he still deserved to win because PChan did not do a good job in his SP there.

    It might sound funny but the reason people are too fixable in the ladies is that, in men event everybody can obviously tell why Yuzuru got the gold and PChan got the medal (the one made the fewest mistakes won), while in ladies event the lady who made a mistake won.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    There are TV news and articles reports appearing in China that titled 'Yuna Kim didn't gain the Gold but she gained the World.' They ended the news program by play Yuna at Vancouver with the backing track to Adios. I think they got it right. Isn't that the real purpose of it all?
    It's beyond naive to think that TV news and article reports just "appear." Nothing of this sort ever "appears" without a deliberate, professional push by PR teams of the respective skaters. Without press releases, talking points, proposed features, ample B-roll footage. Without dinners with reporters and careful courting of the favored ones. I'm sure Kim has the best PR team money can buy and as well she should.

  8. #38
    Love popcorn, hate horendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadya View Post
    It's beyond naive to think that TV news and article reports just "appear." Nothing of this sort ever "appears" without a deliberate, professional push by PR teams of the respective skaters. Without press releases, talking points, proposed features, ample B-roll footage. Without dinners with reporters and careful courting of the favored ones. I'm sure Kim has the best PR team money can buy and as well she should.
    I don't think it's Kim's PR team, but more like the result of Korean showbiz's influence over East Asia at the moment. I live in East Asia, and sometimes it annoys the hell out of me (K-pop culture overdose). No offense to any Koreans here, I am just saying sometimes it's just too much. I adore good skating. But when it comes to too much nationalism, I find it somewhat uncomfortable.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadya View Post
    It's beyond naive to think that TV news and article reports just "appear." Nothing of this sort ever "appears" without a deliberate, professional push by PR teams of the respective skaters. Without press releases, talking points, proposed features, ample B-roll footage. Without dinners with reporters and careful courting of the favored ones. I'm sure Kim has the best PR team money can buy and as well she should.
    Thanks for translating the article. The above, however, is complete nonsense. I have no insight into the Chinese media, but there was no deliberate, professional push by Yuna's supposedly amazing PR team. It's ridiculous to make such an implication.

    Yuna gave interviews to the media in the mixed zone, after her practices, in the official press conference after the short program, after the free skate. That's it. They asked her questions and she gave them answers. There were no press releases, no talking points, proposed features, dinners with reporters.

    Her performances are what they are, her reaction to winning the Olympic silver medal is what it is. The media reacted based on that, but not anything by her PR team. If you have such evidence of what you suggest above, you should provide it instead of making implications and insinuations.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadya View Post
    It's beyond naive to think that TV news and article reports just "appear." Nothing of this sort ever "appears" without a deliberate, professional push by PR teams of the respective skaters. Without press releases, talking points, proposed features, ample B-roll footage. Without dinners with reporters and careful courting of the favored ones. I'm sure Kim has the best PR team money can buy and as well she should.
    Except if you are aware of geopolitics in the region, you'd be know there are massive rivalry/resentment feelings many Chinese feel towards Koreans in general, especially in sports such as speed skating, swimming etc. The sporting fans get even more passionate and mean spirited than figure skating that made FSU look like kindergarten fights. But for some reason Kim were able to break down these barriers since Vancouver and appear one of the athletes admired by the Chinese media in particular CCTV = BBC of China despite the fact she is Korean says a lot of her accomplishment as an ambassador of the sport.

    Take this video clip for instance that appears next day at Shanghai Morning news (certainly with no time for PR). Instead of addressing the champion, they focused on Yuna Kim. The news title says 'Sorrowful Queen, lost the gold but won the world' They might be referring to her performance as sorrowful but perhaps also the circumstance. They said despite the unbelievable hard to acceptable score appears, Kim only met the lengthy screaming crowd with gentle smile and wave to accept the result. They went on to recall her accomplishments, a gold and a silver at the Olympics, 2 world champion gold medals and said her accomplished performances already proved everything. Then played that clip at the end of the program.

    [url]http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/PVQfPZMygks/[/url]

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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Except if you check my post history I have always been extremely critical of any political and artificial inflation of any kind, including Hanyu's recent ascension especially at home events, in particular in the area of PCS, AS WELL as Patrick's marks at home. EVEN they are among my favourite male skaters.

    I actually predicted Hanyu to be an OGM before he hit the seniors and think his original Romeo and Juliet is one of the greatest programs this quad along with Patrick's Elegie and Dai's 2011 programs Garden of Souls and Blues for Klooks, but this is the not the way I want him win, nor Patrick lose it. The men's FS event was tragic, I doubt I will ever replay any of the performances except may be Abbotts if I am really bored.
    Oh, I am referring to the hundreds of threads and thousands of posts not to mention the media blitz over Adelina's PCS. I was shocked at Hanyu's PCS increase at GPF, and tbh, if he didn't receive the PCS spike in Fukuoka, he might be wearing a silver medal instead of gold at Sochi. I have of course made peace with it, and glad that Hanyu got to compete fairly against Chan. However, this inflation was practically unnoticed, whereas Adelina is dragged through seven strata of hell for hers. Both Hanyu and Adelina to me are immature skaters, but they won in their own way against the veteran favorites.

    Home Inflation is not OK, but leveling of unfair PCS advantage is alright to ensure a fairer competition.

  12. #42
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    Korean pop culture is VERY popular with the Chinese right now. China's real beef is with Japan lbr.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyskates View Post
    Home Inflation is not OK, but leveling of unfair PCS advantage is alright to ensure a fairer competition.
    To me, that's a tough question. Not all PCS advantages are unfair. Some skaters interpret music better than others, some are capable of more praiseworthy choreography, sometimes lightning strikes and someone performs the dickens out of the program. I would hate to see this aspect of figure skating "leveled" and the scoring reduced to arithmetic.

    Edited to add: Now I will grade Adelina: Musical interpretation, B. Praiseworthiness of choreography, B+. Lightning strikes, A.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Except if you are aware of geopolitics in the region, you'd be know there are massive rivalry/resentment feelings many Chinese feel towards Koreans in general, especially in sports such as speed skating, swimming etc. The sporting fans get even more passionate and mean spirited than figure skating that made FSU look like kindergarten fights. But for some reason Kim were able to break down these barriers since Vancouver and appear one of the athletes admired by the Chinese media in particular CCTV = BBC of China despite the fact she is Korean says a lot of her accomplishment as an ambassador of the sport.

    Take this video clip for instance that appears next day at Shanghai Morning news (certainly with no time for PR). Instead of addressing the champion, they focused on Yuna Kim. The news title says 'Sorrowful Queen, lost the gold but won the world' They might be referring to her performance as sorrowful but perhaps also the circumstance. They said despite the unbelievable hard to acceptable score appears, Kim only met the lengthy screaming crowd with gentle smile and wave to accepted the result. They went on to recall her accomplishments, a gold and a silver at the Olympics, 2 world champion gold medals and said her accomplished performances already proved everything. Then played that clip at the end of the program.

    [url]http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/PVQfPZMygks/[/url]
    I don't question the fact that Kim is an amazing athlete whose appeal is cross-cultural. I only said the media coverage she receives is undoubtedly, beyond question, the work of her very professional and aggressive media team. And yes, there is always time for PR, and these things are prepared very well ahead of time.

    I am sure there are intra-Asian rivalries that get nasty. I also know that in the face of external enemies, former enemies become friends. "Me against my brother, my brother and I against my cousin, my cousins and brothers against my neighbor." That would not be the case if Kostner or Sotnikova were Chinese. But since it's an Asian girl who was unfairly treated by a white lady, all of us Asians can rally behind our own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadya View Post
    I only said the media coverage she receives is undoubtedly, beyond question, the work of her very professional and aggressive media team. And yes, there is always time for PR, and these things are prepared very well ahead of time.
    We only wish.

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