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Thread: Vassily Solovyov: "You Can't Tell the Truth About Figure Skaters"

  1. #46
    Love popcorn, hate horrendous costumes. Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadya View Post
    I don't question the fact that Kim is an amazing athlete whose appeal is cross-cultural. I only said the media coverage she receives is undoubtedly, beyond question, the work of her very professional and aggressive media team. And yes, there is always time for PR, and these things are prepared very well ahead of time.

    I am sure there are intra-Asian rivalries that get nasty. I also know that in the face of external enemies, former enemies become friends. "Me against my brother, my brother and I against my cousin, my cousins and brothers against my neighbor." That would not be the case if Kostner or Sotnikova were Chinese. But since it's an Asian girl who was unfairly treated by a white lady, all of us Asians can rally behind our own.
    If Sonitkova were Japanese, the situation would be far worse. Some Chinese people had beaten Chinese people simple because they were using Japanese cars. Kinda scary, but here in East Asia those kind of stories are not new. And When I say "some", I do not mean "all" so spare me.
    And given the fact that Korean pop culture is at high in China, I am not so surprise.
    Needless to say, if Kim had not competed in Sochi and it were Mao Asada who got robbed, I doubt that the Chinese press would have such sentimental towards her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadya View Post
    I only said the media coverage she receives is undoubtedly, beyond question, the work of her very professional and aggressive media team. And yes, there is always time for PR, and these things are prepared very well ahead of time.
    Evidence of this "beyond question" assertion? You have provided none. And I am doubtful you will be able to provide any evidence that shows the media coverage that she gets is due to her media team versus her own actual accomplishments. She came into the 2014 Olympics as the ONLY reigning world and Olympic champion in any of the skating disciplines, the only woman since Katarina Witt who was even trying to defend her Olympic title. Her accomplishments invited the media attention, not her media team.

    As for her "very professional and aggressive media team"--what a joke. Yuna's sports agency, All That Sports, is less than 4 years old. What do they know about anything? And if her PR team was so amazing, how did the official Olympics site end up publishing a fabricated quote and attributing it to Yuna?

    I doubt any PR team would've advised Yuna to be honest about her struggles post Vancouver in trying to find a new motivation, and how she felt she would die for the gold in Vancouver but didn't feel the same way this time around.

    You don't have to agree with the media coverage that Yuna gets, but you're not entitled to fabricate the reasons behind it and attribute it to Yuna's supposedly professional and aggressive media team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaylee View Post
    Evidence of this "beyond question" assertion? You have provided none. And I am doubtful you will be able to provide any evidence that shows the media coverage that she gets is due to her media team versus her own actual accomplishments. She came into the 2014 Olympics as the ONLY reigning world and Olympic champion in any of the skating disciplines, the only woman since Katarina Witt who was even trying to defend her Olympic title. Her accomplishments invited the media attention, not her media team.

    As for her "very professional and aggressive media team"--what a joke. Yuna's sports agency, All That Sports, is less than 4 years old. What do they know about anything? And if her PR team was so amazing, how did the official Olympics site end up publishing a fabricated quote and attributing it to Yuna?

    I doubt any PR team would've advised Yuna to be honest about her struggles post Vancouver in trying to find a new motivation, and how she felt she would die for the gold in Vancouver but didn't feel the same way this time around.

    You don't have to agree with the media coverage that Yuna gets, but you're not entitled to fabricate the reasons behind it and attribute it to Yuna's supposedly professional and aggressive media team.
    I'm not? What are you going to do, bleed on me?

    I don't think you understand the way marketing and media relations work. In particular, I don't think you understand the relationship between athletic greatness and media coverage. One does not compensate for another. If Kim wasn't a great athlete, no one would be interested in her story. But being a great athlete, she does her own media relations no more than she makes her own dresses. She doesn't do her own media. She doesn't write her own press releases. She doesn't schedule her own interviews. She doesn't nurture relationships with reporters. Her team does. As well they should. If you think she doesn't get prepped for interviews, you're naive. If you think there is no messaging strategy behind her, you're naive. It doesn't make her unaccomplished. It makes her a well managed athlete.

    Actually, the story of "not desperate this time around" is not a bad narrative if you're trying to mitigate the fact you might not win, and have indeed not won.

    Had she won, I doubt you would hear very much about her not wanting this medal. It wouldn't be "I struggled to find motivation for the Olympic return, I simply didn't want it as much this time." It would be "I have struggled to find motivation to return and compete. But then I found it. Here is my gold medal. Next question please.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    If Kostner or Sonitkova were Japanese, the situation would be far worse. Chinese people had beaten Chinese people simple because they were using Japanese cars. Kinda scary, but here in East Asia those kind of stories is not new. And given the fact that Korean pop culture is at high, I am not so surprise.
    Needless to say, if Kim had not competed in Sochi and it were Mao Asada who got robbed, I doubt that the Chinese press would have such sentimental towards her.
    You have it wrong on so many levels! Mao's Chinese fans rules the figure skating boards for years and her FS is one of the most popular threads on Baidu for good reason and totally deserved. There are lots of team Japan and team Russia supporters (they worship Plushy), many of them disliked Kim despite CCTV's positive press, for example CCTV didn't bring up Mao's GPF wins but did a piece on Yuna's come back instead etc.. Weirdly what happened at Sochi made many previous Antis into admirers (not fans still) but they at least respect what she has done and how she conducted herself. There are many who like Kostner and Yulia too, as well as Gracie (They call her American Kim, because the word Kim = gold in Chinese, and perhaps of her huge 3lz3T). I don't think it is a race or national thing seriously. Most people can look past these issues since there are no real contenders from China in Ladies apart Zijun who is going through a tough time. You have to also understand Kim's positive press in China has alot to do with the fact many of the Chinese national ladies team openly idolise her including Li Ming Zhu the national coach.

    As for Kim's PR I can say for sure observing these past 4 years she is an exception to the rule. It is simply not needed (or at bare minimum) with her level of fame and love shown from her country towards her, even from the paparazzis. I find it all a bit much but very sweet.

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    Love popcorn, hate horrendous costumes. Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    You have it wrong on so many levels! Mao's Chinese fans rules the figure skating boards for years and her FS is one of the most popular threads on Baidu for good reason and totally deserved. There are lots of team Japan and team Russia supporters (they worship Plushy), all disliked Kim despite CCTV's positive press, for example CCTV didn't bring up Mao's GPF wins but did a piece on Yuna's come back instead etc.. Weirdly what happened at Sochi made many previous Antis into admirers (not fans still) but they at least respect what she has done and how she conducted herself. There are many who like Kostner and Yulia too, as well as Gracie (They call her American Kim, because the word Kim = gold in Chinese, and perhaps of her huge 3lz3T). I don't think it is a race or national thing seriously. Most people can look past these issues since there are no real contenders from China in Ladies apart Zijun who is going through a tough time. You have to also understand Kim's positive press in China has alot to do with the fact many of the Chinese national ladies team openly idolise her including Li Ming Zhu the national coach.

    As for Kim's PR I can say for sure observing these past 4 years she is an exception to the rule. It is simply not needed (or at bare minimum) with her level of fame and love shown from her country towards her, even from the paparazzis. I find it all a bit much but very sweet.
    Omg, glad to know. Thanks for clarification. And here in my country I have read lot and lots of article about China-Korea-Japan rivalry so I kind of feel sorry for Mao. She is a sweet girl and she does not deserve the level of hate from some of Kim's fans. Needless to say, I am not a fan of either. I love watching them in competition, though.

  6. #51
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    Read it in original few days ago. Thanks for translation, and big thank to Solovyov for the truth. He is one of my favourite commentator. He is very objective, no matter which country skater represents. I will miss him

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadya View Post
    I'm not? What are you going to do, bleed on me?
    You're not entitled to lie. And that's what you're doing, you're lying about positive media coverage of Yuna in China being the result of a "deliberate, professional push" that is "is undoubtedly, beyond question, the work of her very professional and aggressive media team." If you have no doubt about it, where's the proof? The below is not proof.

    I don't think you understand the way marketing and media relations work. In particular, I don't think you understand the relationship between athletic greatness and media coverage. One does not compensate for another. If Kim wasn't a great athlete, no one would be interested in her story. But being a great athlete, she does her own media relations no more than she makes her own dresses. She doesn't do her own media. She doesn't write her own press releases. She doesn't schedule her own interviews. She doesn't nurture relationships with reporters. Her team does. As well they should. If you think she doesn't get prepped for interviews, you're naive. If you think there is no messaging strategy behind her, you're naive. It doesn't make her unaccomplished. It makes her a well managed athlete.
    I understand the way media coverage works perfectly. But we're not talking about who's writing press releases. You went WAY overboard with your reaction to the positive media coverage of Yuna in Chinese media. So they did some positive stories. All the result of Yuna's professional media team? What press releases came out during the Olympics from Yuna's team? None. What reporters did she or her team nurture a relationship with? Phil Hersh? Nancy Armour? Hah.

    Basically what you're arguing is that a positive story in the media about Yuna can't possibly be the result of anything other than her PR team, instead of say, based off of her own performances and her conduct in which she won the silver medal. And that's ridiculous and wrong.

    You simply can't prove that the positive coverage was due entirely to her "professional and aggressive media team". (All That Sports is hardly that, by the way, as a company it is in its infancy. So you're wrong about that as well.) I have no idea why you overreached for such a broad generalization, if only to do your best to take away credit for Yuna's accomplishments as covered in the media and attribute it to her PR team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaylee View Post
    You're not entitled to lie. And that's what you're doing, you're lying about positive media coverage of Yuna in China being the result of a "deliberate, professional push" that is "is undoubtedly, beyond question, the work of her very professional and aggressive media team." If you have no doubt about it, where's the proof? The below is not proof.



    I understand the way media coverage works perfectly. But we're not talking about who's writing press releases. You went WAY overboard with your reaction to the positive media coverage of Yuna in Chinese media. So they did some positive stories. All the result of Yuna's professional media team? What press releases came out during the Olympics from Yuna's team? None. What reporters did she or her team nurture a relationship with? Phil Hersh? Nancy Armour? Hah.

    Basically what you're arguing is that a positive story in the media about Yuna can't possibly be the result of anything other than her PR team, instead of say, based off of her own performances and her conduct in which she won the silver medal. And that's ridiculous and wrong.

    You simply can't prove that the positive coverage was due entirely to her "professional and aggressive media team". (All That Sports is hardly that, by the way, as a company it is in its infancy. So you're wrong about that as well.) I have no idea why you overreached for such a broad generalization, if only to do your best to take away credit for Yuna's accomplishments as covered in the media and attribute it to her PR team.
    Believe as you wish. It makes zero difference to me. I expect all media coverage of major athletes, without exception, to be the work of paid professionals.

    I still don't think you understand how this process works. Of course her performances and her conduct attract media interest. It's the job of her team to manage this interest and make sure the end product is of the best and most flattering quality. It does not diminish Kim's accomplishments, as you seem to believe it does. This is simply how things work.

    I also don't understand why you react so emotionally to what is essentially all business.

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    His comments about PCS scores are what is most significant, IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    You mean Davis/White should have won.

    Belbin/Agosto deserved to win the OD but their FD was really awful. They should have been off the podium.
    David/White deserved to win the Fd, Belbin/Agosto to win the OD and to be significantly ahead of d/w in the CD. B/A for the total win, D/W second, Domnina/ Shabalin 3rd. It was their Spartacus FD that was overscored in my book. Their CD was good though.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadya View Post
    It's beyond naive to think that TV news and article reports just "appear." Nothing of this sort ever "appears" without a deliberate, professional push by PR teams of the respective skaters. Without press releases, talking points, proposed features, ample B-roll footage. Without dinners with reporters and careful courting of the favored ones. I'm sure Kim has the best PR team money can buy and as well she should.
    You are grossly overestimating YuNa's "PR Team" which is amateur and spearheaded by her mom. The last time YuNa had a competent PR team was when she was with Team Orser and the Canadian crew. YuNa's ATS team repeatedly bungle even Korean media events, how on earth are they supposed to be able to coordinate international/Chinese media perception? LOL. It's you who does not understand the way how marketing and media relations work and how utterly impotent YuNa's ATS team is at this particular job. Thankfully YuNa does not have foot-in-mouth syndrome and is able to conduct herself intelligently and maturely before cameras and mics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    If Sonitkova were Japanese, the situation would be far worse. Some Chinese people had beaten Chinese people simple because they were using Japanese cars. Kinda scary, but here in East Asia those kind of stories are not new. And When I say "some", I do not mean "all" so spare me.
    And given the fact that Korean pop culture is at high in China, I am not so surprise.
    Needless to say, if Kim had not competed in Sochi and it were Mao Asada who got robbed, I doubt that the Chinese press would have such sentimental towards her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nadya View Post
    I'm not? What are you going to do, bleed on me?

    I don't think you understand the way marketing and media relations work. In particular, I don't think you understand the relationship between athletic greatness and media coverage. One does not compensate for another. If Kim wasn't a great athlete, no one would be interested in her story. But being a great athlete, she does her own media relations no more than she makes her own dresses. She doesn't do her own media. She doesn't write her own press releases. She doesn't schedule her own interviews. She doesn't nurture relationships with reporters. Her team does. As well they should. If you think she doesn't get prepped for interviews, you're naive. If you think there is no messaging strategy behind her, you're naive. It doesn't make her unaccomplished. It makes her a well managed athlete.

    Actually, the story of "not desperate this time around" is not a bad narrative if you're trying to mitigate the fact you might not win, and have indeed not won.

    Had she won, I doubt you would hear very much about her not wanting this medal. It wouldn't be "I struggled to find motivation for the Olympic return, I simply didn't want it as much this time." It would be "I have struggled to find motivation to return and compete. But then I found it. Here is my gold medal. Next question please.
    You are completely missing jaylee's point (who, by the way, works with American publishing. I think she is very tuned-in with how media, especially written media, works. )

    No, YuNa does not do many of those things, but it's silly to think that her professional team does all that micromanaging, as well, or that all of her interviews and messages are part of some calculated strategy. Certainly not to the extent that it would be able to influence and set the tone/direction of Chinese national TV. Really, that is too rich. The Chinese media has its own agenda, and its opinions are not the work of YuNa's PR team. This does not mean that there is no collaboration, or mutual support, when the parties are able to find a common thread they want to achieve. But once again, you are way, way overestimating the influence YuNa's tiny, amateur PR team would have on a behemoth like the Chinese state. It is much more fathomable to believe that YuNa's conduct and performances transcended what is typically an ambivalent rivalry. And, when it comes to Korea, I echo os and anyone who knows how much Koreans adore their YuNa. Her team doesn't have to lift a finger to get them to seek her out for interviews or write complimentary, admiring things about her. This is partly why they are so incompetent.

    And please, stop your ham-fisted attempt to describe intra-Asian relations as some sort of sibling rivalry where outsiders cause them to band together. This is not the case at all; some partisans prefer when an outsider takes the cake rather than the rival. Look at Meioma's comment above; she doesn't think that if YuNa were Japanese she would have received sympathy. I don't necessarily agree with her, but the intra-Asian rivalry is more complicated than that.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by prettykeys View Post
    And please, stop your ham-fisted attempt to describe intra-Asian relations as some sort of sibling rivalry where outsiders cause them to band together. This is not the case at all; some partisans prefer when an outsider takes the cake rather than the rival. Look at Meioma's comment above; she doesn't think that if YuNa were Japanese she would have received sympathy. I don't necessarily agree with her, but the intra-Asian rivalry is more complicated than that.
    Oh please, I am just an outsider who read too many of articles about rivalry between these 3 countries. I was kind of sock to know that in China there is a fan base for Mao Asada. Like, is that even real? Then it's good. You know, several years ago there famous Chinese actresses played some roles in a Hollywood movie about Japanese Geisha and they got hate from some Chinese people for that. I just assumed that Chinese fans would be kind of hostile towards Japanese idols and athletes. If that is not the case then I am happy for them.

  13. #58
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    Oh please, I am just an outsider who read too many of articles about rivalry between these 3 countries. I was kind of sock to know that in China there is a fan base for Mao Asada. Like, is that even real? Then it's good. You know, several years ago there famous Chinese actresses played some roles in a Hollywood movie about Japanese Geisha and they got hate from some Chinese people for that. I just assumed that Chinese fans would be kind of hostile towards Japanese idols and athletes. If that is not the case then I am happy for them.
    Well, you know. Individuals don't always follow the main direction of their society all the time. Mao Asada has many Chinese fans, as does YuNa Kim. YuNa Kim, in turn, admires Michelle Kwan (Chinese-American) and has invited Shizuka Arakawa once to her shows, if I remember correctly.

    It annoys when me non-Chinese / Korean / Japanese comment on the inter-relations between them and get it completely wrong. It's not a big brotherhood and it's not hate in all directions, either, and it will also vary between individuals of course.

    The gossip behind-the-scenes is quite complicated regarding some of the Chinese media. A number of us YuNa fans have speculated as to why Li Ming-Zhu is often so complimentary of YuNa (courtesy of some of our Chinese-fluent fans on the YuNa forum.) We also know that Lu Chen is a fan Mao Asada. Therefore we have wondered if their championing different skaters is also a part of a subtle media fight, or whether their preferences simply lean the way they do.

    (Personally I would have preferred if Hollywood had found Japanese actresses to play the Geishas in Memoirs of a Geisha, if only because...there are slight differences in physical characteristics/appearance and I couldn't get over that. Michelle Yeoh, OK, maybe. Zhang Ziyi, no...she doesn't look Japanese in the slightest and she couldn't pass for one in my eyes.)

  14. #59
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Hollywood does not even get North American national and regional differences correct. I don't expect that they would get Asian national differences right. Heck, they could cast a Canadian easily enough in a part when a Canadian accent might fit the role, but they mostly do not do it. And they persist in setting tv and movies in Vermont and then sticking in actors with Southern rural accents or at best Boston-JFK accents. I have been thinking about this because I just watched Tom Hanks play Captain Phillips. Some of the time he would get the accent almost right, and then it would disappear. I was shocked and pleasantly surprised that he made the effort though.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 03-17-2014 at 03:29 AM.

  15. #60
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    lol @ calling ATS as very professional and aggressive media team.. sorry but i find this amusing because this is the first time someone is giving them too much credit..

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