Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 62

Thread: Wagner and Suzuki underscored?

  1. #1
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,590

    Wagner and Suzuki underscored?

    Why have both been underscored in pcs when both are fluid enchanting complete skaters?

    Any feedback most appreciated. What can these ladies hope for in saitama should they skate well?? I was very disappointed to see the judges in Sochi not appreciating Ashley ...technically she's not the best but she is as beautiful an artist on ice as anyone for me. I hope we can have room for two top ladies. But I fear Ashley has hit a ceiling technically and artistically. Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    941
    For Ashley, everyone always says she needs a reliable combo so I guess mastering one can help. (3F+3T or 2A+3T looked quite doable for her)

    Another thing - perhaps she can try out David Wilson? I always felt her choreo is awkward and doesn't play to her strength. Some refinement in moves and smarter layout for points could help.

  3. #3
    Medalist
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    98
    Quote Originally Posted by usethis2 View Post
    For Ashley, everyone always says she needs a reliable combo so I guess mastering one can help. (3F+3T or 2A+3T looked quite doable for her)

    Another thing - perhaps she can try out David Wilson? I always felt her choreo is awkward and doesn't play to her strength. Some refinement in moves and smarter layout for points could help.
    Um, the Romeo and Juliet program she had this season, that was a total disaster, was choreographed by David Wilson. Judging by the program he gave her, he has no clue how to bring out the best in her.

  4. #4
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    941
    Oh, lol. My bad. I had no idea.

    Edit: Another thing - Maybe she should spend more time on cardio than weight-lifting? Her muscles are getting bigger but her stamina isn't. I am giving away totally unqualified advice here, lol.

  5. #5
    🌸🐱❄🐱❄🐱🌸 jennyanydots's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    227
    You know this is the nth thread you've created about Ashley and you're going to get the same answers. She's all-round good but it's just not enough. She probably has hit her scoring ceiling and now that she's no longer the US #1 she's not going to be propped up as she has been. Her scores at Sochi were probably about right. She could have finished at most 1 place higher. Concerning her PCS, she doesn't have the greatest programs, skating skills, transitions, and her peformances come across as put on to me, like she's knows that it's lacking but then looks like she's trying too hard. I think Akiko getting low-balled on PCS has a lot to do with her inconsistency.

  6. #6
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    At the Rink
    Posts
    3,001
    I guess the question is...will anything change or is Ashley just Ashley.

    Akiko is someone you want to see do well. At least me. Can Ashley get people to feel the same about her again outside of the fan base she already has? If so how? A lot of the girls at my rink when talking about Ashley say...meh. A year or two ago that wasn't the case.

    I'm holding out hope for both but I would expect Akiko to finish higher. If Radinova hadn't fallen and Sotnikova had skated like she did at Euro's ..Ashley would have been 5th at GPF. That's fairly grim if you stop and think about it.

  7. #7
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    260
    Akiko, maybe, but Ashley, no way!

    In fact, I think Ashley was often overscored on PCS, due to (formerly) being the #1 American skater. There is nothing exceptional about her skating. Her skating skills aren't comparable to the top ladies (which you can easily see in her step sequences.) Her spins are slow and subpar. She has average jumping ability. She cannot execute a 3-3 combo (her 3F-3T is badly cheated) or even a 2A-3T. She doesn't have the technical ability to compete with the top ladies (in jumps, spins, or step sequences.) Plus, she has the tendency to two-foot her jumps.

    She is a mediocre skater, and I think it's a mistake for her to continue this quad. She will soon be passed by Polina (maybe as soon as Worlds, as Polina's technical ability is much greater than Ashley's) and be the #3 American skater. I think she peaked in 2012-2013, with her remarkable consistency. I foresee her only dropping in the rankings if she continues.

  8. #8
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    205
    Sometime, I wonder if Ashley were more ladylike, instead of being such a personality, would she get higher PCS?

  9. #9
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,062
    My thoughts on Ashley: she needs different music and more interesting choreography AND a clean program. Her little mistakes always add up!! Instead of something heavy and classical, go for something light and airy!!! I've always thought she looked robotic on the ice and didn't connect with the music OR the crowd. I don't think she's a second tier skater although her recent results would support that thought. Am really hoping she puts something together for Worlds. Not necessarily for redemption but for inspiration for the coming season.

    Akiko is lovely on the ice and presents the whole package. But again - silly little mistakes add up to a not-so-clean program. At her age, however, I'm wondering if that will ever change.

  10. #10
    Keeper of the Kweens OGM. MK's Winter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    718
    I would like to see Ashley return to Phillip Mills. He seems to know how to create programs that suite her. I know he was kind of sketchy with his tweeting when she chose to go with Shea Lynn Bourne and David Wilson, but I'm hoping she goes back to him. Loved her Swan Lake and Sampson programs. I am hoping she changes the entrance to her flip as well, I don't think it helps the 3T when she picks off at that angle.

  11. #11
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Mexico City
    Posts
    3,637
    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    While I like Ashley I agree about getting overscored on PCS. I fail to understand how she regularly outscored someone like Akiko on PCS for comparable technical efforts. She is certain not the artist Akiko and others are.

    Come to think of it I dont think she was underscored or underplaced at all in Sochi. She had so many two foot landings, underrotated jumps, and other small mistakes they were more mistakes than Julia just having 1 fall but otherwise perfect in the 2 programs, and she isnt clearly superior to Julia in anything while being far worse in spins, footwork, emotion, and performance. Meanwhile Mao's sensational LP was literally atleast (probably quite more) superior to Ashley's LP full of two foot landings and not even her best as Ashley's SP with a two footed and UR combo was to Mao's nightmarish SP. I am not sure on Gold deserving higher PCS but as her TES is so superior it wouldnt have mattered. As horrendous as the ladies event scoring was in Sochi, Ashley was not affected.

    Akiko it is harder to say. She just made too many mistakes and buried herself immediately with a bad short program. She is always underscored on PCS anyway though, so nothing new there. In a fair world she would get higher PCS than someone like Sotnikova if she even landed 3 triples, but skating is not a fair world, especialy in Russia.
    I agree except for the emotion part. While Ashley may look like she is acting, she at least is a more mature performer than Julia is and she knows, after putting a lot of effort into it, how to interpret the different tones of her music. Julia has one look throughout her program and while she is feeling it, sort of, she cannot interpret the changes in the music. Still, that's hardly surprising as Julia is so young and she's already come a lot way in terms of expression on the ice from where she was just a little bit ago.

  12. #12
    Custom Title ks777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    2,071
    Akiko's problems are her spins and her body lines. She has great SS but she needs to work on her spins much more. I can't stand watching her ugly spins, when you are not a jumper, you'd better be a good spinner. Also she can work on her ugly lines. I don't think she moves her body, arms and legs beautifully.

  13. #13
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    306
    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    Her spins are slow and subpar.

    She is a mediocre skater, and I think it's a mistake for her to continue this quad. She will soon be passed by Polina (maybe as soon as Worlds, as Polina's technical ability is much greater than Ashley's) and be the #3 American skater. I think she peaked in 2012-2013, with her remarkable consistency. I foresee her only dropping in the rankings if she continues.
    I don't even like Ashley all that much as a skater, there's nothing special about her to me (besides her relative consistency and competitive fire), but you're exaggerating. She gets inconsistent spin levels probably because she doesn't always hold positions long enough but she has much nicer positions than a lot of ladies, the same goes for her spirals. She's a good all-around skater who obviously works hard but just lacks anything special. However, calling a skater at that level mediocre is an exaggeration.

  14. #14
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    270
    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    While I like Ashley I agree about getting overscored on PCS. I fail to understand how she regularly outscored someone like Akiko on PCS for comparable technical efforts. She is certain not the artist Akiko and others are.

    Come to think of it I dont think she was underscored or underplaced at all in Sochi. She had so many two foot landings, underrotated jumps, and other small mistakes they were more mistakes than Julia just having 1 fall but otherwise perfect in the 2 programs, and she isnt clearly superior to Julia in anything while being far worse in spins, footwork, emotion, and performance. Meanwhile Mao's sensational LP was literally atleast (probably quite more) superior to Ashley's LP full of two foot landings and not even her best as Ashley's SP with a two footed and UR combo was to Mao's nightmarish SP. I am not sure on Gold deserving higher PCS but as her TES is so superior it wouldnt have mattered. As horrendous as the ladies event scoring was in Sochi, Ashley was not affected.

    Akiko it is harder to say. She just made too many mistakes and buried herself immediately with a bad short program. She is always underscored on PCS anyway though, so nothing new there. In a fair world she would get higher PCS than someone like Sotnikova if she even landed 3 triples, but skating is not a fair world, especialy in Russia.
    The argument is not about TES, but to me Ashley is a more mature skater than Adelina, Julia and Gracie and definitely had her PCS suppressed. Nowadays, PCS is inflated for the more technical skaters to ensure that they will win. Athleticism does not equal artistry. Busy choreography also does not equal artistry (especially when there is not mature interpretation of the music that is being skated to). The fact that Adelina, Julia and Gracie outscored Ashley, Mao and Akiko in PCS (and Adelina outscoring Carolina in particular) is a joke.

  15. #15
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    306
    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    Akiko's problems are her spins and her body lines. She has great SS but she needs to work on her spins much more. I can't stand watching her ugly spins, when you are not a jumper, you'd better be a good spinner. Also she can work on her ugly lines. I don't think she moves her body, arms and legs beautifully.
    I LOVE Akiko, and while I agree that her positions aren't the prettiest, I think she did the best she could with her limited flexibility under this scoring system, she gets top levels on all her spins (even though the positions may be ugly). She'll never be a Sasha or Alissa Czisny. I think her extension is fine

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •