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Thread: Wagner and Suzuki underscored?

  1. #16
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    "Sochi-ism"

  2. #17
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    Well, they for sure both should have gotten higher PCS than Lipnitskaya. Suzuki came in where she should have considering how she skated. I'd have had Wagner one place higher.

  3. #18
    In search of a summer sport to love <3 desertskates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donezo View Post
    Well, they for sure both should have gotten higher PCS than Lipnitskaya. Suzuki came in where she should have considering how she skated. I'd have had Wagner one place higher.
    I agree with this. my 5-7 would have been Mao, Ashley, then Yulia.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    While Sotnikova was grossly overscored in PCS at the Putin Olympics, which was a large part of her farcial undeserved gold medal; I would still have given her higher PCS than Ashley, atleast how they both skated in Sochi. There are other events Ashley has deserved and gotten higher PCS than Sotnikova. Ashley probably skates with more maturity, has more appropriate musical interpretation, and perhaps slightly better extensions, lines, positions, but Sotnikova has stronger basics, is faster, has more advanced (even if incohesive and messy) choerography and transitions, and she projects and sells her programs better.

    Julia skates with more emotion and her Schindlers List is just a more impactful and beautiful program IMO. Again PCS was inflated by Sochi-ism (less so after bombing the short than it would have been otherwise) but probably deserves higher than Ashley in the LP anyway.

    Gracie is the most questionable one, particularly with her meh and mistake filled performances in Sochi, but she is U.S #1 now, so if she and Ashley skate with similar mistakes and similar so so Gracie will probably now score higher, even on PCS. U.S Nationals killed Ashley's national and international standing which was already ever so slowly sinking anyway, and PCS is as much about pecking order as skating merits anyway.
    Gracie didn't have mistake filled performances in Sochi. She had exactly one fall. Yes she didn't land all her jumps cleanly but she hung in there and skated well and wasn't out of her league with the rest of the girls. Mistake filled is her earlier skates in the season and last season.

  5. #20
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    [PHP][/PHP]Is it wrong of me to find Ashley's interpretations kind of scary at times. It's the only thing that keeps from really getting behind her.

    As an orchestral student/cello player I prefer subtlety which might explain my draw to Yulia and Kim. Do others feel this way?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jennyanydots View Post
    You know this is the nth thread you've created about Ashley and you're going to get the same answers. She's all-round good but it's just not enough. She probably has hit her scoring ceiling and now that she's no longer the US #1 she's not going to be propped up as she has been. Her scores at Sochi were probably about right. She could have finished at most 1 place higher. Concerning her PCS, she doesn't have the greatest programs, skating skills, transitions, and her peformances come across as put on to me, like she's knows that it's lacking but then looks like she's trying too hard. I think Akiko getting low-balled on PCS has a lot to do with her inconsistency.
    I don't think she has necessarily hit her ceiling but she needs to expand and grow - develop. Seh can still develop more difficult and consistent combos as well as spins. And artisitcally there is huge room for her to grow. As for suzuki I think part of the problem whil she is lovely to watch she doesn't stand out really - sort of like Ashley. Not to b mean but not everyone sticks out like Cohen, Baiul, even Bobek - not perfect but they had something that kept you mesmorized. Both Akiko and Ashley also are not no. 1 in their countries - but if Ashley wins a medal and Gold doesn't watch that change lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    She tries too hard. I think she knows she is not as talented as the other top skaters, so needs to make up for it with effort. However in the performance she gives a little too much.
    That's the feeling I always get from Ashley. When Kim/Asada/Kostner skate, it doesn't look like they're trying excessively hard. Occasionally each one of them has small choreographic moments that make me go or but it never looks forced and as patently artificial as many parts of Wagner's programs. It may be harsh, but like I said before, Wagner wishes she was a fierce, confident diva except she doesn't have enough of the talent to back it up.

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    Ashley is my girl !

    Her jumps are good enough (hopefully she'll master the 3\3)
    Her spins are fine (Layback with arms in classic position)
    And her consistency is key,

    I feel like the one thing that could really get her programs to spark is an explosive energetic footwork sequence !
    She always seems like she's hardly getting through it slowly, It brings down the whole performance and gives an unsure vibe, like she might fall if she gives it more (A la worlds 2013).

    Suzuki has the goods, including good flowing step sequences, But her last two FS's didn't suit her at all IMO,
    Phantom of the opera? :\

  9. #24
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    ^ I for one appreciate your faith and love for Ashley. I'm fairly critical of Ashley at times but I wish the best for her and her fans. It's nice to see enthusiasm on this board. Hopefully it's contagious!

  10. #25
    🌸🐱❄🐱❄🐱🌸 jennyanydots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladola View Post
    Ashley is my girl !

    Her jumps are good enough (hopefully she'll master the 3\3)
    Her spins are fine (Layback with arms in classic position)
    And her consistency is key,

    I feel like the one thing that could really get her programs to spark is an explosive energetic footwork sequence !
    She always seems like she's hardly getting through it slowly, It brings down the whole performance and gives an unsure vibe, like she might fall if she gives it more (A la worlds 2013).

    Suzuki has the goods, including good flowing step sequences, But her last two FS's didn't suit her at all IMO,
    Phantom of the opera? :\
    Really? I loved Akiko's FS the last two seasons, especially "O". The choreographic sequence is to die for.

    Ashley's spins used to be quite nice but they've deteriorated in speed and position. I assume probably due to her focus on the 3-3 this season and coaching change. In a classic layback the free foot has to be parallel to the ice. Ashley now lets it drop and point down. Sorry but I have a fixation with laybacks caused by years of Dick Button's commentary. As for the 3-3, it's really hard the up the technical content at her age. She's not comparable to Carolina Kostner who always had the ability to do the big combos but had issues with nerves and injuries.

  11. #26
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    Wagner was not underscored. Perhaps other skaters who fell were overscored in comparison to her considering she did not fall, but both of her programs were shaky. She did not deserve to be on the podium.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by juppiter View Post
    Wagner was not underscored. Perhaps other skaters who fell were overscored in comparison to her considering she did not fall, but both of her programs were shaky. She did not deserve to be on the podium.
    I agree with this. But I think Gold and Lipnitskaya were way way overscored for the programs they did. No way Yulia and Gracie should've been over 128 with falls. Yulia got 135 and Gracie got 136. The only bigger mess, as almost every other sane person has mentioned, was Adelina's score.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by juppiter View Post
    Wagner was not underscored. Perhaps other skaters who fell were overscored in comparison to her considering she did not fall, but both of her programs were shaky. She did not deserve to be on the podium.
    Quote Originally Posted by amc987 View Post
    I agree with this. But I think Gold and Lipnitskaya were way way overscored for the programs they did. No way Yulia and Gracie should've been over 128 with falls. Yulia got 135 and Gracie got 136. The only bigger mess, as almost every other sane person has mentioned, was Adelina's score.
    Basically my thoughts in a nutshell. It wasn't that Wagner was underscored...it's that skaters who fell were overscored and placed above her.

    I also agree with the poster who suggested that she tries too hard at times. That said, I think Wagner should keep attacking her programs...but I think with more experience with the program she'll settle into it more and it won't look quite so forced. In fact, that was my biggest beef with her Black Swan program.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK's Winter View Post
    I would like to see Ashley return to Phillip Mills. He seems to know how to create programs that suite her. I know he was kind of sketchy with his tweeting when she chose to go with Shea Lynn Bourne and David Wilson, but I'm hoping she goes back to him. Loved her Swan Lake and Sampson programs. I am hoping she changes the entrance to her flip as well, I don't think it helps the 3T when she picks off at that angle.
    Personally I believe this is the last thing she should do. Ashley's season started well but the pressure was on and she folded @ US Nationals. Then she panicked and went back to Sampson & Delilah, only it was too late. It also sent a bad message and lack of confidence in herself to the judges. There was no way she was going to medal in the individual event. If she wants to improve she should try to push the envelope not look backwards. I believe the judges would respect that and respond more favorably.

  15. #30
    In search of a summer sport to love <3 desertskates's Avatar
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    I don't think it was too late to return to S&D. I do wish she'd done it sooner. I posted somewhere else that I'd read when R&J was first proposed to her she thought "no way". She should have gone with her gut. I think she'll get her 3-3, but I'm not sure about this flip backed into a corner thing. And the flying back sit can be improved. It used to be faster. And I think she needs another position in there, perhaps rising from sit into a "Y" or something like that.
    I wish her the best. Worlds will say a lot, and what she comes out with for next year will say even more.

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