Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 62

Thread: Wagner and Suzuki underscored?

  1. #46
    Tripping on the Podium
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    71
    i don't know what you're talking about. the judges gaves suzuki a huge free program score in the individual even though she skated a terrible program. i think she already retired so she's not going to worlds.

  2. #47
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The land of Agent Dale Cooper
    Posts
    8,602
    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    Wait a minute - "FINALLY" cashing in on that potential??? you skate fans crack me up. This is only her SECOND year on the senior level!

    I can understand frustration with Nagasu (and even Cohen back in the early 2000s) since they were theoretically capable of better results than they got (realistically, it's a different story but that's beyond scope of discussion)...it remains to be seen what will happen with Gold - but she IS still early on in her career. Wagner, OTOH is approaching the end of hers, and no world or Olympic medal (indiv) to show for her efforts (yet).

    And YES...Gold seems to be on an upward trajectory but I wouldn't necessarily get too excited yet. She has yet to feel the pressure of being chased instead of being the chaser...we don't know how long her career will last...so many variables in play here. I only hope she doesn't pull a Nagasu and tank Worlds...
    Quote Originally Posted by jaylee View Post
    Agreed. Gracie has been on a consistent upward arc. She's only been to senior Worlds once, senior Nationals twice, her first Olympics with a 4th place finish. She is consistently improving overall, in spite of the lack of GP wins. So no one should be frustrated with her--yet.

    Worlds in Japan will be very key for Gracie. A good finish, whether it's a medal, title, or top 4/5 finish in a top quality competition, will be very good for her momentum going into next season.

    Wagner doesn't have a world or Olympic medal, but she does have a bunch of other medals and a 4CCs title and 2 US Nationals title. It's not a bad haul. Sasha Cohen never won an ISU championship, and oddly, only 1 US National title...
    Okay, I removed the "FINALLY" from my post because I don't want to be seen as one of those who expected Gracie to burn a hole in the world. I feel the opposite, actually.

    In any case, while nobody should be frustrated with her given that she hasn't been on the senior scene that long, but I think because of all the hype she generated in 2011-2012, people became frustrated when that hole burning didn't occur.

    My MAIN point, however, is that Ashley and Gracie are at different points in their career and a direct comparison is tough to make.

  3. #48
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    At the Rink
    Posts
    3,204
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingJackson View Post
    i don't know what you're talking about. the judges gaves suzuki a huge free program score in the individual even though she skated a terrible program. i think she already retired so she's not going to worlds.


    Wait....what?

    http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat00028068.htm

  4. #49
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The land of Agent Dale Cooper
    Posts
    8,602
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post

    Wait....what?
    She will be at Worlds. There were incorrect reports that she wasn't going and was retiring. But all the entry lists state that she will be there.

  5. #50
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    830
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Okay, I removed the "FINALLY" from my post because I don't want to be seen as one of those who expected Gracie to burn a hole in the world. I feel the opposite, actually.

    In any case, while nobody should be frustrated with her given that she hasn't been on the senior scene that long, but I think because of all the hype she generated in 2011-2012, people became frustrated when that hole burning didn't occur.

    My MAIN point, however, is that Ashley and Gracie are at different points in their career and a direct comparison is tough to make.
    I agree with your main point.

    I think a lot of the hype from 2011-2012 was mostly lived up to (she did win her JGP event, junior Nationals, and medaled in a tough field at 2012 Junior Worlds). Unfortunately, some people went crazy with the hype (as some continue to do in the continued Hype My Favorite Skater Wars) and then others were way too critical when she didn't immediately win everything on the GP in her senior debut.

  6. #51
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    9,495
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post

    Here's the thing though. I think people admire Wagner (haters, aside I suppose) because she is someone that had to work hard to get where she is. I remember Arsenio Hall saying something like "I love your story" basically that Ashley decided to make the cross-country move to California and to take responsibility financially for her career.

    She's being painted as this privileged ice princess now due to all the bruhaha, but really Ashley is where she is because she made things happen for herself in spite of whatever setbacks and shortcomings she has.
    I agree. Whether Ashley will ever cover herself with glory internationally isn't the point right now. Until we have some brighter stars to usurp her spot, she's at least a contender for a top five finish at Worlds. If she is ever overtaken by other American skaters, then she will be weeded out of contention by nature taking its course. There's something appealing in a person who makes it up the ladder by sheer hard work, though clearly Ashley will not be considered a skater for the ages the way someone like Mao will be.

    As for Sasha taking so long to become national champion despite her talent, keep in mind that during those years she was competing with Kwan. Even if she had done each program perfectly, she might not have made it to the top of the podium. That's what happens in a country with a crowded field. Imagine how well Weaver and Poje might have done skating for Lithuania, for example, or Britain, when instead they were stuck behind one of the greatest ice dance teams in history, Virtue and Moir. The fact that Sasha was consistently a national medalist and pretty consistently did well in both Grand Prix and World championships shows that she did not waste her time as a competitor, though she could have done a shade better in terms of jump consistency.

    Gracie seems to have more natural talent than Ashley, especially in terms of jumps, and if her confidence is growing as it appears to be, then maybe she is headed for international achievement. Wouldn't that be lovely!

  7. #52
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,549
    I think the real issue concerning Wagner is what SHE wants out of her career, not so much what she is capable of.

    For someone at her talent level, she has done very well for herself - although a few others on her level have managed to stand on the World podium (in select cases, even the top!), she has the misfortune (if you want to call it that) of competing in a much tougher field with a much higher standard. In such a field, a skater like Wagner would not be able to break through to a podium finish without meltdowns from the skaters above her, and not enough of these skaters are having them to create the necessary opening in the standings.

    If Wagner had her Sochi performances at 2010 Worlds, she would be a world medalist. Same performances at 2012 Worlds - she would have been World Champ(!). Skating is JUST as much about luck and timing sometimes as it is about skill, talent and hard work. Wagner has 2 of the 3 down but hasn't gotten the luck / big break a skater at her skill level, in this current field, would need to get to the level of success she wants. That's the reality of her situation.

    Having said all that, she is not performing at 100% capability theoretically. She can still get more points by rotating the 3-3, cutting out the random 2-foots and increasing her spin levels. She literally needs EVERY SINGLE POINT she can get, so she needs to continue working hard at improving her weaknesses if she wishes to stick around and remain relevant.

  8. #53
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,378
    Not only is Gracie only in her 2nd year as a Senior but she also had very little experience as a Junior. But the big thing is she's only been with Frank for a little over 5 months and he had made all the difference in the world. She needed to get a coach with a bigger resume then Alex if she wanted to take that next step. Next season will tell the tale if she's ready to take that step.

  9. #54
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,592
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    She will be at Worlds. There were incorrect reports that she wasn't going and was retiring. But all the entry lists state that she will be there.
    And may she skate great and get home points...heres to Mao, Akiko and Gracie...hope that that is podium, unless caro just nails it all again. Or Ashley...her chances for a world medal are drying up. But after the russinflation for two very juniorish skaters, I hope Japan kicks butt -it is how the game is played. Worlds in Boston will I hope belong to Grace Gold ("finally") if not before.

  10. #55
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,592
    Quote Originally Posted by jennyanydots View Post
    You know this is the nth thread you've created about Ashley and you're going to get the same answers. She's all-round good but it's just not enough. She probably has hit her scoring ceiling and now that she's no longer the US #1 she's not going to be propped up as she has been. Her scores at Sochi were probably about right. She could have finished at most 1 place higher. Concerning her PCS, she doesn't have the greatest programs, skating skills, transitions, and her peformances come across as put on to me, like she's knows that it's lacking but then looks like she's trying too hard. I think Akiko getting low-balled on PCS has a lot to do with her inconsistency.
    umm, er where are this threads nth threads. I see beautiful presentation and great ss. Gracie is new us lady num. 1 so Ashley's pcs goes down. For gorgeous skating there was mao, caro, yuna and Ashley. and akiko thrown in. Why do judges punish Ashley-everone in top ten skates with more beauty than sot at her best. The sochi coring mess I have said little about. Julia was so held up-I was sad really.

    Am I the only one who sees her portrayal of black swan and Delilah as first class. Ashley is dynamic. Who cares about occasional two foot when she is so fluid. Love grace but she's wooden in comparison. I think the nationals mess hurt her intl judging. I pray she wins a wc before shes done-she works so hard. Show skating I hope she will really develop in, if it exists in future

  11. #56
    🌸🐱❄🐱❄🐱🌸 jennyanydots's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    227
    Well, the judges and tech panel care about two foot landings and under rotations and flutzing and it most definitely effects the scores. Oh wait, except for certain skaters at certain events.

  12. #57
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,549
    For the millionth time, though, Wagner was scored fairly. It's a few of the other scores that are suspect (and should have been lower).

    Anyway, whatever...

  13. #58
    Tripping on the Podium
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by JayW View Post
    Sometime, I wonder if Ashley were more ladylike, instead of being such a personality, would she get higher PCS?
    I already feel skating has been too femmy for a while. All those little fluttery hand motions. Too much make-up, etc. But it´s a good point about Ashley. She kind of backs herself into a corner. The Rocky Balboa me against the world thing. There just aren´t that many ways you can go with that. She played a tough Delilah. OK. But who else could she do. Maybe a Xena Warrior Princess short program. Really though, she needs another view of women that she can relate to.

    Actually I thought she was underscored on long program. OK, problems with the combo but basically clean. Musically she hit every high point. Passion and attack. I think the audience agreedd the score was low. There was whisltling in the arena when it was announced.

  14. #59
    Tripping on the Podium
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by jaylee View Post
    Agreed. Gracie has been on a consistent upward arc. She's only been to senior Worlds once, senior Nationals twice, her first Olympics with a 4th place finish. She is consistently improving overall, in spite of the lack of GP wins. So no one should be frustrated with her--yet.

    Worlds in Japan will be very key for Gracie. A good finish, whether it's a medal, title, or top 4/5 finish in a top quality competition, will be very good for her momentum going into next season.

    Wagner doesn't have a world or Olympic medal, but she does have a bunch of other medals and a 4CCs title and 2 US Nationals title. It's not a bad haul. Sasha Cohen never won an ISU championship, and oddly, only 1 US National title...
    Off subject, but Cohen just withered under the consistency and competitiveness of Kwan. Kwan would be down after the short but come storming back for the free. i looked the other day Kwan medaled 12 times at nationals. Both ladies were great.

  15. #60
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,634
    Ashley's scores and placements are proper. She did not have good programs this season and she makes multiple small mistakes that, while they don't look that bad, add up quickly.

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •