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Thread: Nam Nguyen - the future of Canadian figure skating

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by tripletwizzle View Post
    Umm...Daisuke? Imo his La Strada, Blues For Klook, Eye, The Stroll, Historia etc. all more memorable than many of Patrick's programs. If life & figure skating were fair, Daisuke would be a 2x world champ (+2012), Denis would be a 1x (+2013), and Patrick would only be a 1x. But life & skating aren't fair.

    Back on topic, I too wish Nam all the best over this next quad, and also wish that ppl would stop predicting Olympic medals for people who aren't even out of juniors yet. It's too much pressure--and then ppl complain when the skater inevitably crumbles under said pressure.
    On the technical side:
    First of all, Daisuke has been very inconsistent for the quad. He has had trouble nailing his quad because of his knee injuries, which is understandable. It was not easy for him to compete with all those younger skaters with a injured body, and still managed to stay at the top. I agree Dai has always been a fighter and I could see that he has been improving his already superb skating skills through all these years ,but still cannot catch up with Chan. Chan is at a level of his own in terms of skating skills, which is not inborn-- he worked very very hard on the skating basics when he was younger and continued to take the risk to improve. Chan is not a skater that relies on his already huge advantage to win (consistent quad, BEST skating skills, great well-centered fast spins with a nice stretch of the body, high quality jumps, etc) . In 2011 worlds, he certainly didn't need the quad in the SP to win the competition but he fought for it. He could have excluded 3A in the LP and relied on his consistent two 4Ts and won 2012 and 2013 worlds with clean skates. He could have reduced the difficulty of the transitional steps to guarantee successful jumps, and still won. He has done so much more than he had to win the competitions. Chan is NOT a utilitarian. He doesn't just want to win the competitions. He wants to make a statement and push the boundaries of the sport.

    His win of 2013 worlds might have been controversial. IMO, the gold medal could go to either him or Denis Ten. It was a close competition anyways and Chan, more or less, benefited from home ice advantage. But based on the current judging system, he deserved the 2012 title. If you look at the protocol for 2012 worlds, Takahashi, with a virtually clean skate, still lost to Chan on the technical side by less than 1 point, who made two mistakes, one fall on the 2A and a doubled 3S. Takahashi's TES was also 3 points lower than Hanyu who also had 1 quad and two 3As in the FS and actually fell on the step sequence. Therefore, even if Takahashi received the same PCS as Chan (even though I personally think that program deserves at most 87+), he still wouldn't be able to win. The thing is, the quality of his jumps are not comparable to either Chan or Hanyu, or even 2011's Kozuka-- GOEs made the difference. In fact, with virtually identical jump base values, the TES of Takahashi's "clean" FS in 2012 was 10 points lower than Kozuka's FS in 2011. 88+ vs 98+. The high PCS for Chan's FS at 2012 is acceptable to me given the quality of that program both technically and artistically. His consistency that season also contributed to it. He delivered two virtually clean skates for that intricate LP at 4CC and nationals prior to worlds. In the end, in figure skating, your score, especially PCS, doesn't depend on one particular performance but your impression on the judges based on past performances as well.

    On the artistic side:
    I didn't follow men's competitions very closely for the last quad because like many Chan haters here, I was unhappy to see Chan's dominance and I didn't think he deserved the dominance. I didn't even want to look at his programs because I thought they were probably boring. Until recently, as I was finally patient enough to carefully watch his programs, I realized how stunning his programs are. It was true that his "Phantom of Opera" program was boring, and before 2011, he made every program look the same, with similar movements. However, he started to make breakthroughs with "Take-Five" and "Concierto de Aranjuez". I was never patient enough to watch a complete version of "Concierto de Aranjuez" until after last month's Olympics. After watching his performance at 2012 Nationals, I said to myself "this is the true art on the ice". Each movement of that program was perfectly linked to the music, capturing each nuance and each note. His performance was like an "analysis" of the music, to help you understand, in more depth, this guitar concerto masterpiece. I used to like some parts of the music but not all of it. I loved this piece of music much more after watching his performance. I especially love the part of the second half, where the music is quiet with only guitar and he nailed all those triple jumps linked by intricate and elegant movements. It feels like his blades were having a conversation the the guitar, a conversation of lamentation. The ending pose of that program is so damn beautiful!!! There was not a moment wasted in that performance and I just cannot pull my eyes away for even a second. The set-up time of Chan's quads might be a little longer (still shorter than almost anybody else), but the triple jumps all come from nowhere! Elegie SP is another masterpiece. It just melt my heart. It takes your heart to another world.

    I can understand why many people don't see Chan's artistry. Because his style is more internal, more quiet and yet more in-depth. I like Daisuke too but they are just different styles. They like to skate to different types of music. The reason why people don't appreciate Chan's art is similar to why most young people don't like classical music, as much as pop/rock music. If we consider Daisuke as a popular novel/play writer, then Chan would be a poet, or an academic person writing academic papers. Of course, most people (including myself in the past) would find it boring because they are not easy to read and comprehend.

  2. #62
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    Let's start from the point that Hanyu and Chan can't be comparable because they are on diffrent stage of their careers.

    Let's be clear. Chan skating is beatifull, but his jumps are not so good like Hanyu. He can't do things that Hanyu is able to do, well obviously no one can do 3A in the way what Hanyu do. It is simple. Currently Chan is better in terms of his overall skating look, but Hanyu is better on the quality of jumps. For me Hanyu's quad toe is the best in the field. It looks so easy that even I think that I can do that Someone can say that he don't have 2 consistens quad, and Chan have 2. Yes, but I think if Hanyu would go for 4T3T as Chan then he would have 2 consistent quads also, but he is pushing for something diffrent.

    For me counting overall level they are on the same level in they own league, it is just that one is better in this, and second in this.

  3. #63
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violet View Post
    But based on the current judging system, he deserved the 2012 title. If you look at the protocol for 2012 worlds, Takahashi, with a virtually clean skate, still lost to Chan on the technical side by less than 1 point, who made two mistakes
    No Chan didn't deserve it in 2012 based on the current system. Takahashi received an incorrect < call on his second 3Flip and their PCS should have been reversed. Correct PCS alone would have given Takahashi the title.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    No Chan didn't deserve it in 2012 based on the current system. Takahashi received an incorrect < call on his second 3Flip and their PCS should have been reversed. Correct PCS alone would have given Takahashi the title.
    Hahaha, OK. Some people think they know more than the judges so it doesn't make sense for me to waste any words. If Takahashi and Chan changed bodies and everything else equal, you would think Takahashi's win is so convincing.

  5. #65
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violet View Post
    Hahaha, OK. Some people think they know more than the judges so it doesn't make sense for me to waste any words. If Takahashi and Chan changed bodies and everything else equal, you would think Takahashi's win is so convincing.
    If Takahashi and Chan changed bodies, that mean's Chan's body would be moving with much more artistry and Takahashi's body would be moving with much less artistry.

    Chan trying to interpret Blues for Klook would be hilarious.

  6. #66
    Love popcorn, hate horendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violet View Post
    Hahaha, OK. Some people think they know more than the judges so it doesn't make sense for me to waste any words. If Takahashi and Chan changed bodies and everything else equal, you would think Takahashi's win is so convincing.
    Well, I have been on here long enough to know that Blades of Passions has quite the knowledge about how to score good and bad skating, might be better than some judges, especially corrupted judges.

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    Nam was interviewed by Scott Russell from the Toronto Cricket Club at the conclusion of CBC's broadcast of Junior World's today. Nam sounded very calm and poised. He said his main goal for Senior Worlds is to have fun and that he's only aiming for top 15 for his first time there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Violet View Post
    Hahaha, OK. Some people think they know more than the judges so it doesn't make sense for me to waste any words. If Takahashi and Chan changed bodies and everything else equal, you would think Takahashi's win is so convincing.
    If Lambiel who is my favorite mens skater had skated Chan's program at the 2012 and 2013 worlds and won over Takahashi and Ten I would still say he was way overscored and didnt deserve to win for sure in 2013, and his margin of victory and long program victory at the very least was bogus. It wouldnt matter who it was, I and many others will always speak out against judging that bad.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    ......bunch of random jibberish typical of CSG trolling......
    Too much rubbish to sift through but you know there are many who consider Evan Lysacek to have had a better career than Patrick Chan, now with Chan's failure to win the Olympic Gold. Well guess what, Hanyu's career is already basically the same as Evan's if he wins worlds.

    If Hanyu wins Worlds (a likelihood with Chan not there), he will be undeniably the top skater this 2013-2014 SEASON
    No, he is already the top skater of the 2013-2014 season.

    and yes, the only skater this quad to win Olympics/Worlds/GPF (obviously only one skater CAN do that). But by winning a cakewalk Worlds, and winning with 2 falls the messiest men's Olympic competition in years
    Your attempt to diminish Hanyu's victories is laughable considering 2 of 3 of Chan's world titles were won in two of the most controversial decisions ever, and also in total splatfests/weak fields, what have you. Even his world title in 2011 which was won with excellent skates, was still won in what was basically an ugly splatfest except for the gold and silver, and the silver medalist even had a poor short program that couldnt even reach a mere 80 points. I have said it many times, this is the weakest and above all most splatty and inconsistent field/era in mens skating history, so the splatfest or weak field part is true of anyone who wins titles in the 2009-2014 and meaningless to even bring up by comparision. Atleast Hanyu's Olympic Gold is not controversial in the least (and it is unlikely his world title in Japan would ever be unless he skates far worse than expected), while won in the same generally crummy mens field that Chan and Lysacek both won theirs against too. As for winning worlds and olympics with great performances, well Chan only did that once, so Hanyu has the chance to already be tired there, and winning an Olympic uncontroversially with a not so great performance is way better than very controversially winning 2 worlds with a not so great (one time quite terrible, which Hanyu's Olympic performance atleast wasnt) performance.

    Although I suppose you also think Arakawa is the best skater from 2003-2006, moreso than Slutskaya, because she won a World gold and an Olympic gold... and probably think Lipinski (with essentially 2 seasons of relevance) was undoubtedly the best skater of the 1995-1998 quad more than Michelle Kwan, because she got Olympic/CSF/World gold whereas Kwan did not.
    ROTFL there is a very good case in fact for Arakawa being the top skater of the 2003-2006 quad. We already know Shizuka is a skater you have a major hateorade on for your stubborn insistence a clean Cohen was certain to have beaten even Shizuka's hypothetical best at the 2006 Olympics, which nobody but you was agreeing with. However Shizuka certainly has a strong case as best of that quad. It is hilarious you seem to think it is certainly Slutskaya. Lets see a skater who didnt even skate the 2003 worlds, finished way down at the 2004 worlds (yes coming back from illness but that was reality), winning the 2005 worlds after a dominant 04-05 season, and then after only winning bronze at the 2006 Olympics skipping the 2006 worlds. Yes Shizuka was inconsistent and in and out, but so was Irina, and Irina herself won only 1 world title (2 major titles if we count the Grand Prix final) so obviously the skater with both the Olympic and World gold would be ahead in this case. In fact the only skater with a good case to be above Shizuka as best of that quad is not really Irina, but your beloved Sasha, who was by far the most consistent skater of that quad with so many major medals, international wins, an Olympic silver, but sadly not a world or Olympic win, so probably gives it to Shizuka by default as there was nobody really consistently strong for 4 years but Sasha who won nothing that really mattered, so it goes to just big wins and Shizuka > Irina in big wins/medals. Now nobody would ever talk about Shizuka as the best skater of that era in a million years, but that era dates back to 96 which is when Michelle and Irina were starting their success from. Best skater of that quad she in fact has quite a good case. BTW Shizuka atleast did some really nice performances every season this quad even if she didnt place that well at the 2003 and 2005 worlds (and she was hosed bigtime at the 03 worlds, if then Japanese #1 Suguri had done the same skates she would probably have won silver), while a sadly ill and struggling Irina did exactly none in the 2002-2003 and 2003-2004 seasons, her major GIFTs in early 2003 like her grand prix final silver and European title aside. Heck, I will atleast concede you have a way better case for picking Chan as top skater of the quad over Hanyu even if Hanyu wins worlds then you would naming Slutskaya as the best of the 2003-2006 quad after even competing only about 55% of it. like Shizuka having only one worlds result better than 8th all quad, and winning only bronze at the Olympics to Shizuka's gold, but of course you love Slutskaya and dont like Shizuka, so for you and how you operate that washes over any reality.

    Now if you were to say Hughes won the Olympics and wasnt the top skater of the 99-2002 quad I would agree. It was definitely Kwan or Slutskaya (I would lean to Slutskaya). However Hughes only had two wins ever all time over either Slutskaya or Kwan, didnt place above them at any major event ever (even grand prix final or Kwan at U.S Nationals), and won only 1 world medal and it was a bronze. That is obvious a huge difference from Hanyu who has placed higher on the podium than Chan at the last 2 grand prix finals, won the Olympics beating Chan in both programs, and is likely to win his first world title at the end of a dominant season and to complete a full set of major victories in his career, while having been on the podium at a previous worlds already.

    Meanwhile there are many who would also say Tara Lipinski was the best skater of the 95-98 quad, especialy since she owned Kwan at the height of their rivalry in big events, winning 4 of the 5 big event meetings (two U.S Nationals, 97 grand prix final, 97 worlds, 98 Olympics) in that span. Furthermore Olympic Gold + world gold + 2 grand prix final titles > 2 world golds + 1 grand prix final title. Those that say Kwan would not be saying it at all based on results, but be saying it based on her all time greatest performances at the 98 Nationals, and her amazing and historic artistic impact on the sport (which as much as you want to fantasize otherwise Chan has not made in anywhere near the same way). Of course now many years later Kwan far trumps Tara's spot in history based on her very long and illustrious career, just as Shizuka cant compare to the overall careers of Irina and Michelle, but best of that quad Tara has an excellent case, and I say that as someone who never cared to Tara and is a self admited Kwan uber.

    So if that is your example to emphatically prove your point, as usual it comedic at best.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    with a badly Telegraphed 3A ? I dont think so
    What is your issue???? Do you just hate all things Canadian???? We do have great maple syrup... you should try it sometime..... perhaps it will sweeten your disposition a little!

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan O View Post
    Nam was interviewed by Scott Russell from the Toronto Cricket Club at the conclusion of CBC's broadcast of Junior World's today. Nam sounded very calm and poised. He said his main goal for Senior Worlds is to have fun and that he's only aiming for top 15 for his first time there.
    I saw his another interview and felt the same.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDQ-...ature=youtu.be

  12. #72
    Custom Title spikydurian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8tngcanuck View Post
    What is your issue???? Do you just hate all things Canadian???? We do have great maple syrup... you should try it sometime..... perhaps it will sweeten your disposition a little!

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    Quote Originally Posted by yude View Post
    I saw his another interview and felt the same.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDQ-...ature=youtu.be
    Thanks for the link. I like that Nam states openly and directly that he wants to be the first Canadian man to win figure skating gold at Pyeongchang in 2018. His idol Yuzuru was the same.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Your attempt to diminish Hanyu's victories is laughable considering 2 of 3 of Chan's world titles were won in two of the most controversial decisions ever, and also in total splatfests/weak fields, what have you. Even his world title in 2011 which was won with excellent skates, was still won in what was basically an ugly splatfest except for the gold and silver, and the silver medalist even had a poor short program that couldnt even reach a mere 80 points. I have said it many times, this is the weakest and above all most splatty and inconsistent field/era in mens skating history, so the splatfest or weak field part is true of anyone who wins titles in the 2009-2014 and meaningless to even bring up by comparision. Atleast Hanyu's Olympic Gold is not controversial in the least (and it is unlikely his world title in Japan would ever be unless he skates far worse than expected), while won in the same generally crummy mens field that Chan and Lysacek both won theirs against too. As for winning worlds and olympics with great performances, well Chan only did that once, so Hanyu has the chance to already be tired there, and winning an Olympic uncontroversially with a not so great performance is way better than very controversially winning 2 worlds with a not so great (one time quite terrible, which Hanyu's Olympic performance atleast wasnt) performance.

    +1

    True champion you recognize by that that even in the hardest moment he don't give up and can overcome things that don't go the way he would like to and fight for the win to the end. That what Hanyu did. Sometimes things don't go the way you would like, and main thing is to don't give up.
    So it is funny that someone call it was not worth gold because, he falls, and then call Abott a hero. Pff

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    Quote Originally Posted by Violet View Post
    If we consider Daisuke as a popular novel/play writer, then Chan would be a poet, or an academic person writing academic papers. Of course, most people (including myself in the past) would find it boring because they are not easy to read and comprehend.
    What an insult. For me, Patrick wishes he could have Daisuke's natural showmanship and charisma. Everything Patrick does is put on, and it has nothing to do with him coming from a more "intellectual" place with his artistry.

    You know, it's one thing to be enamored of Patrick's skating skills, but to claim that his artistry is so inherently "high art", and inaccessible to the masses unless you're some cultured elite is both embarrassing and hilarious.

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