The Return to Simpler, Lovelier, Safer Skating | Page 3 | Golden Skate

The Return to Simpler, Lovelier, Safer Skating

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I♥Yuna;891437 said:
Sounds good to me :thumbsup: The opening moves on that video are perfect :yes: (those are called "school figures", right?)

Well, they're based on school figures skills. The first circle with the three turn at the top, and most of the second circle with the three turn (before he suddenly adds a loop before getting back to the starting point) are a beginning figure, one I spent a year working on before giving up in frustration. Senior-level skaters would have no problem with that part, although they wouldn't all look as controlled as Curry does.

Starting with that first loop, though, this choreography puts extra turns of various kinds on each circle, adds other kinds of steps in between, and at one point he does four edge changes and loop circles on one foot to make a flower or cross shape.

OO
OOO
OO

I.e., what he's doing here are more complicated than the standard school figures; all the patterns were either two circles OO or three circles OOO, with only one kind of turn in each figure. And the only time there was more than one turn on the same circle was double threes.

That's why I say I'd be surprised if all of Curry's figures-trained contemporaries could have done it, much less today's non-figures-trained skaters.

But I think there would be some value in making them train those skills to a less precise level.

I'm not sure what kind of elements and skills to include... I really liked Janet Lynn's single axels in sequence because they're simple but choreographically effective.

And Curry has one-foot axels in both directions, building up to a double axel. Are those skills everyone should be able to master, though?

Maybe waltz jumps in each direction, which skaters could add an extra revolution to (single axel) as a variation, or they could click their feet in the air or do other in-air variations instead of extra rotation.

Maybe include a single axel with more speed. Again skaters would have the option to do a double axel instead, or to do in-air variations on the single. And the best jumpers might do variations on the double axel.

No triples allowed, I would think. There could be a sequence with a buildup of axel, double salchow, and double loop, with steps in between. And, yes, a double lutz, with an entrance that puts scrutiny on the takeoff edge.

We definitely need a layback spin, a scratch spin, and a spin w/a flying entrance.

For ladies only, we're talking about, right?
A forward layback (almost no one ever does or can do back laybacks anyway) with required attitude position -- fitting the music for long enough to get 8 revolutions at medium speed, faster spinners may get more and be rewarded, those who get fewer will be penalized? What kind of variations would be allowed? No Biellmanns here -- save them for the other programs.

Forward scratch spin on its own? That's a very simple move, albeit not always easy to do with great speed and centering. Still, I've seen low-level skaters who can, but can't do axels.

Maybe assign the scratch spin to enough music that skaters will have the option to do a change-foot scratch spin, or only forward or backward scratch if they can sustain it long enough, or cross-foot spin, and then give guidelines on how each would be scored.

Or, include a combination spin with basic positions, ending in a required back scratch, or forward scratch if it's a back-entry combo or has two changes of foot.

If there's no other combination, and required forward scratch on its own, then the flying spin could be Hamill camel (flying camel into back sit).

If there a combination spin, then let the flying spin be flying sit, sit position must be attained in the air (i.e., no deathdrops), but maybe give options as to whether it's a forward or back sitspin. If no options at all, then axel flying sit -- we need to include some sort of backspin.

For music, I don't know... I feel like it should be classical, but it doesn't have to be, does it?

Well, if there would be different compulsory programs with different music, choreography, and elements each year, then some years it could be classical and other years it could be other kinds of music. As long as the rhythm and phrasing are clear enough that judges can tell whether skaters are skating to the beats as choreographed, or have gotten behind or ahead of the music, and there are clear points in the phrasing that skaters can aim for to get back in synch if they did get behind or ahead.

I just decided the guys' compulsory should be choreographed by Kurt Browning lol :biggrin:

So probably not classical. ;)

But whoever choreographs, we don't need to make all skaters show the same kind of interpretation as the choreographer or the past skater who served as inspiration.

Also, if SS and P/E are the only components, the factors ought to be 4.0 for each (normally it's 1.6 for 5 components, which adds to 8.0).

Works for me. :)

[Technical program]
Hmm, maybe give Skating Skills & Transitions a little more weight, since it is about the technical content?

Sure.

I think it would be cool to allow or require more of the 3 jump combos.

Well, this program will be about skaters showing off as many, and as many difficult skills as they can, with some limits to prevent them from racking up points with the same kind of skill over and over again.

E.g., we don't want skaters earning more points just by doing more combos with +2T+2T on the end.
So maybe include the limit as three jump combos or sequences, two of them can be three-jump combos, but if two are used the last jump must be different in each of them. So the simplest way to take advantage of that rule would be to do one +2T+2T and one +2T+2Lo. The ideal would be to do half loop-salchow or half-loop-flip (double or triple) for one of them, and to do any triple-triple or quad-triple +2T, or +2Lo if you're brave. Triple-triple-triple or quad-triple-triple would earn the most points but remain rare and often turn into 3-3-2 or 4-3-2.

I'd be in favor of more different ways to earn technical points, not all of which are allowed or rewarded in the free skate right now. Let skaters who have more non-jump skills than the current programs let them earn points for, or who can fit all their jump skills including repeated triples/quads into 5 or 6 jump passes, use extra element slots for other kinds of skills.

I've said this for the free program before, but I think it would be even more applicable for this kind of technical program:

Give the women a little more time, so both men's and women's programs could be 4:30 +/- 10 seconds, or 4:15 +/- 15 seconds.

Maximum of 13 or 14 elements.
At least 5 but no more than 8 jump elements (current requirements and Zayak rule apply)

At least 2 but no more than 5 spin elements (current requirements and limits on repeated features apply; no two spins may have the same code)
At least 1 leveled step sequence, maximum 2
Option of 1 each of any of the following types of leveled sequences: spiral sequence, field moves sequence, school figures variation (compulsory program would include one as an example), small-jump sequence (jumps of 1.5 or fewer revolutions; would fill one of the 8 allowed jump element slots)

[Artistic program]
Right. I would also weigh P/E, Ch/C, and Int a little more than the other two in the pcs.

Makes sense.

For required elements, you could have like 3 required choreo sequences, spiral sequence, maybe the step sequences should include stuff like leaps and butterfly jumps = cool things to break up the regular steps.

If they're choreo sequences, there would be no requirements within the sequences. Skaters can already include those kinds of moves in today's version of choreo sequences.

It makes sense that the artistic program would have choreo sequences, not leveled sequences. So they would all get the same base mark if they are recognizable as a sequence, and then they'd be scored on GOE and how they contribute to the PCS. A single Ina Bauer from one end of the ice to the other, or one spread eagle or spiral in a full rink-width circle, could be worth the same as a rink-length sequence of steps and jumps.

As long as there are clear ways to let judges and tech specialists agree when each scored sequence begins and ends, it would make sense to have three such scoring opportunities within the program, along with maybe three jump elements and two or three spins. The spins could also be "choreo" -- no levels, just scored on quality and how they contribute to the choreography and performance as a whole.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
How about something like the beginning of this for a compulsory program? ;)

:jaw: :rock: :love:

That is what figures should have turned into. Instead of eliminating school figures the ISU should have -- well, done that! In terms of competition, a required sequence like that would completely spread the field and show who can skate (Curry) and who can't (everyone else :laugh: )

The other thing about that program is the three-movement musical structure. This is another direction that modern skaters should explore.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
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In orchestra we often practice sections much slower than actual tempo, even after we have learned it, to master the technique. This is a beautiful example of this exercise. Pure control over body and technique is what makes this a masterpiece. I'd love to see a break down of the steps. At this speed of you could follow a list of steps and transitions and could learn a lot about the SS needed to be a "polished" skater. Thanks gkelly!!:clap:

I'm not asking for you to break down this video. It's beautiful as it is and needs no explanation.
 
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