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Thread: South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging

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    South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging

    Howdy fellow fanatics,

    I thought I'd share this NBC Sports update from today indicating that the South Korean skating federation will be filing an official complaint over the controversial ladies' judging at the Olympics:

    http://olympictalk.nbcsports.com/201...ing-complaint/

    --Michael

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    Correct me if i'm wrong, but I remember reading something along the line that says that official complaint should be filed within 30 minutes of competition or something to be considered by the ISU? Is this true?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrhkittythefourth View Post
    Correct me if i'm wrong, but I remember reading something along the line that says that official complaint should be filed within 30 minutes of competition or something to be considered by the ISU? Is this true?
    i think winthin in 30 days

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrhkittythefourth View Post
    Correct me if i'm wrong, but I remember reading something along the line that says that official complaint should be filed within 30 minutes of competition or something to be considered by the ISU? Is this true?
    Yes, 30 minutes.

    So I suspect this is simply the Korean skating fed trying to look like they are "doing something", in order to appease still-angry Korean Kim fans.

    It will do nothing to change the Olympic results, if that's what people hope - that ship sailed a long, long time ago. But I suppose the ISU could use this (and other criticisms) to set agenda items at their next conferences, and make judging more transparent etc.

    I wouldn't hold my breath for that though, I think it's more likely to go in the round filing cabinet, under the desk :-P

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    No. They are talking about a different kind of complaint, ISU Article 24.6, which should be filed within 60 days.

    Article 24.1 explains Disciplinary Commission:

    "The ISU Disciplinary Commission (DC) is an independent body elected by the Congress. The DC serves as a first instance authority to hear and decide all charges referred to it by any ISU authority or party against any Skater, Official, Office Holder or other participant in ISU activities (Alleged Offender) accused of a disciplinary or ethical offence (Offence)."

    Here is Article 24.6 (a):

    "Complaints must be filed with the DC by any Skater, Official, Office Holder or other participants in the ISU activities, within 60 days of learning of the facts or events, which constitute a disciplinary or ethical offence."

    This is quite a new piece of information for me, too. So I am trying to understand the implication of this process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seabm7 View Post
    No. They are talking about a different kind of complaint, ISU Article 24.6, which should be filed within 60 days.

    Article 24 explains Disciplinary Commission:

    "The ISU Disciplinary Commission (DC) is an independent body elected by the Congress. The DC serves as a first instance authority to hear and decide all charges referred to it by any ISU authority or party against any Skater, Official, Office Holder or other participant in ISU activities (Alleged Offender) accused of a disciplinary or ethical offence (Offence)."

    This is quite a new piece of information for me, too. So I am trying to understand the implication of this process.
    Aha. This is interesting! Something could actually come of this. And perhaps even set precedants that would prevent "certain persons" achieving (or retaining) positions of authority in the ISU on "ethical" grounds... one can dream...

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    Getting gold to Yuna Kim and stripping Adelina of her medal and disqualifying her needs proof of wrongdoing.

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    This may not be a popular opinion but I'm sorry to see this happening. And why did they wait so long to do it? Why not file the complaint immediately after the competition? This will set a precedent and every time a skating federation thinks their skater was judged unfairly they'll file a complaint. In my mind it would be better to "fix" the judging panel and how they're chosen (if that is indeed an issue) and just move on. Yuna has moved on!!! It's over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    This may not be a popular opinion but I'm sorry to see this happening. And why did they wait so long to do it? Why not file the complaint immediately after the competition? This will set a precedent and every time a skating federation thinks their skater was judged unfairly they'll file a complaint. In my mind it would be better to "fix" the judging panel and how they're chosen (if that is indeed an issue) and just move on. Yuna has moved on!!! It's over.
    Not an unpopular opinion with me, noskates; I totally agree! While we (that is, the ISU) can tweak the scoring system to its heart's content, and perhaps judge selection can be improved, figure skating by its very nature will always have a subjective element to its appreciation and judging. Therefore, what you predict about every federation following this lead every time they are disappointed, would certainly develop, and ultimately be much worse for the sport than occasional controversial placements.

    I think of 2 asides, also. #1, just a personal observation---although I was never a big Plushenko fan to begin with, my opinion of him, more personally than as a skater, took a steady downward path, the more he ranted and carried on about the 2010 Olympic result. Though I also thought he was wrong, that wasn't even the point in my mind---I just couldn't stand how loudly dismissive and ungracious he continued to be over time. I think Yuna is handling her situation in a much better manner thus far.
    #2: I have to just wonder if the timing of the Korean filing has anything to do with world politics at the moment. By its actions in Ukraine, Russia has managed to stir up and alienate most of the world, so it seems that a protest which might involve allegations of Russian corruption might be especially welcomed by a world unhappy with Russia anyway just now. Just a thought off the top of my head.

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    My guess is that Korea has now younger generation skaters coming up and wants to ensure their performance is "fairly" judged in the future. I doubt anyone is seeking a 2nd gold from Sochi. Like many have pointed out, Yuna has moved on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YagsFan View Post

    I think of 2 asides, also. #1, just a personal observation---although I was never a big Plushenko fan to begin with, my opinion of him, more personally than as a skater, took a steady downward path, the more he ranted and carried on about the 2010 Olympic result. Though I also thought he was wrong, that wasn't even the point in my mind---I just couldn't stand how loudly dismissive and ungracious he continued to be over time. I think Yuna is handling her situation in a much better manner thus far.
    #2: I have to just wonder if the timing of the Korean filing has anything to do with world politics at the moment. By its actions in Ukraine, Russia has managed to stir up and alienate most of the world, so it seems that a protest which might involve allegations of Russian corruption might be especially welcomed by a world unhappy with Russia anyway just now. Just a thought off the top of my head.
    I think it's a revisionist perspective. The KSU and the ISU were pressured into doing this at the last possible minute. I don't think they wanted to do it, but there was so much pressure within Korea both from the people and the politicians so they had to do something to save its face. From what I gather, there were demonstrations that called for action and counting down D-4, D-3, D-2..... to 30-day period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    This may not be a popular opinion but I'm sorry to see this happening. And why did they wait so long to do it? Why not file the complaint immediately after the competition? This will set a precedent and every time a skating federation thinks their skater was judged unfairly they'll file a complaint. In my mind it would be better to "fix" the judging panel and how they're chosen (if that is indeed an issue) and just move on. Yuna has moved on!!! It's over.
    Apparently yuna has not moved on. I think Adelina has the skates of her life. While I do not like her programs, choreo, outfit (ta;lking LP really, SP was pretty good, she clearly is inferior to YuNa in presentation. Send in the Clows was really lovely, and one is swept away by yuna's beauty. But she was a far cry fro Vancouver and even last year's worlds where her Les Mis was far better for me than Adios Nonino. Yuna's speed was missing, she no longer does Bielmanns. Her spins have always been weaker than many top ladies.

    But really, unpopular one is if one says Yuna sadly does not have the lovely legs, feet turnout to make lines like Caro. I felt she was great in Canada but very much overscored given what Mao did. If I wasn't bean counting IJS fractions, I'd say Carolina Kostner was in her own league. Though she cannot do what Sot does, she is spellbinding and her SP was ethereal. Her LP while not her best showing of Bolero was still lovely. I would have given Caro gold despite Adelina and Yuna doing more difficult jumps. It was a weird Olympics. Julia did not deserve 5th place. Ashley was far better. So, I have to say that YuNa be;lieves she is still the best in the world on any night because she could have simply said "No" to her Fed. Adelina performed the heck out of both programs, and given IJS rules, I think she won. Was YuNa prettier to watch? I think so. But so was Gracie, and Mao's epic LP and Ashley was realty good in all 3 outings. Akiko sadly didn't have a good Olympics. And Julia's programs were better than Sot and her presentation at age 15 are better. I have already forgotten the scores and I don't care. Caro showed what figureskating could still look like in her SP. And her LP was very mesmerizing. But technically is where Adelina won. So Yuna should be gracious-she said before she was not concerned about the medal color and was not going expecting another coronation. I wish YuNa's fed and fans would let it go, as it was far more fair as a result than say, 19994 where A perfect Kerrigan loses to a very sloppy in her LP Baiul. YuNa was not robbed. I think the judging was worse with Julia who did not deserve 5th place at all.

    I think Sot was over scored, but this was a given-host country spent 50 billion...judges saw a very fiery two performances, and apparently her jumps were clean-I did not follow the 200 page thread. Who has time to invest. YuNa apparently had an injury, came to Sochi with the best programs David found for her, and she skated her LP without the fire once expected of a Tango. None of the commentators from any countries thought there was a robbery of YuNa. If results were different, the Russian Fed would definitely be sour grapes as they always are when they don't win. But YuNa had to give her permission to allow this complaint. I think she should be gracious about silver. It was a kind of disappointing ladies event. Julip melted down sadly, mao's SP was a mess, Ashley's Samson and Delilah which is a masterpiece was not appreciated so much-she and Akiko are special and they have to skater like superwoman to break through a certain level.

    It was clear Putin would have a ladies gold given how both Russian girls PCS grew ridiculously large and fast. Figure skating will never change. Subjectivity, hidden judges-I think to keep from going crazy, the fans should just say, so it goes and enjoy who you like, and give your own scores. There just is no answer to the judging.

    I for one think there should have been no men's gold or silver. That was just sad and hollow, but what can one do? It is funny that YuNa having been surpassed technically is now considered the artist. I guess her PCS were not strong enough to carry her past the charge of the 17 year old who skated like she wanted gold. YuNa really did not imho. But she has been a great competitor and has been so consistent. And her upper body is truly beautiful. I think she has been treated very well by the judges, the establishment and I am kind of surprised she is letting this go forward. She has so much to go on to. I think the silver was fair and I'm more of a Yuna fan than Adelina by far at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    ...None of the commentators from any countries thought there was a robbery of YuNa. If results were different, the Russian Fed would definitely be sour grapes as they always are when they don't win.
    Italian Commentary
    http://vimeo.com/89457478

    BBC Commentary
    http://vimeo.com/89089078

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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    Apparently yuna has not moved on.
    [...edit...]
    YuNa really did not imho. But she has been a great competitor and has been so consistent. And her upper body is truly beautiful. I think she has been treated very well by the judges, the establishment and I am kind of surprised she is letting this go forward. She has so much to go on to. I think the silver was fair and I'm more of a Yuna fan than Adelina by far at this point.
    Yuna has moved on, as she repeatedly said she was not upset by the decision at the Olympics and AFTER the Olympics and insisted that any emotions she had the night of the FS were because she was glad it was over. She has refused to personally question the results as she is not in the position to judge.

    But she does not have any choice about the KSU/KOC filing a "letter of complaint". It's not up to her, nor should it be, because wouldn't that be self-serving? She's in a rock and a hard place; she's not in any position to stop the KSU/KOC protest, but she's not in a position to cheerlead them on either. So leave her out of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Did I seriously just read that. This isnt even an opinion but a flat bold faced lie. It does not matter what YOU or I think in this case, you are speaking of others and inventing something that is not true. The U.S is basically the ONLY commentary crew in the world (along with Russia I would guess) who didnt get into the controversy. The Canadian, British, German, Italian (yes Italian), French, Japanese commentators were all irate with the judging and the results. Katarina Witt called it one of the worst results in skating history, you know the multi Olympic Champion ladies competitor. You know it is better to say nothing at all about something you obviously know NOTHING about then to make up a random guess at something, hoping that you were right and nobody else would notice, and end up looking like a clown in the end.
    You are always so nasty pang. So yeah, Katarina was not happy. I have a life, albeit a hard one, and have not followed this terrible travesty as the REAL WORLD news is enough to perseverate about. You have been irate about YuNa not getting gold. Maybe medication would help? It has been a while. So list all the incredible experts that said YuNa was robbed. Someone always is in the Olympics. But why so upset only about one placement. The judging bias affected everyone. Do you care about them? However many you list who disagreed are also very biased YuNa fans and do not like IJS and are upset for a long time over the sport matters more aspect.

    The men's event should be the focus of how lousy IJS is, the expectations of transitions from crazy setups, etc. The ladies, a few actually did this IJS stuff well- Sotnikova's program was an IJS masterpiece-ugly, uninspiring-yet she ticked off all the boxes very well. She did it better than Yuna can at age 17 and not injured. What is the upset about? Adelina is a great IJS product. And since when doesn't the home team get more support? Russia had it down. Total silence for any non Russian, and likely intimidation to judges and tech specialists. This result should surprise no one and is not the worst I've seen.

    Many commentators don't care for her LP but admitted she won and they prefer YuNa. Michelle Kwan was won. There, I have trumped the former Stasi spy Katarina Witt. Who listens to her anyway? Her scores were inflated. She got beauty points too like Yuna. For every person you say picked Yuna as winner, others can be found to say the opposite. The older 6.0 skaters would not like Adelina's skating or that fugly program. It was the putin Olympics. It could have been worse, really.

    Why is the Korean Fed doing this now???? YuNa was crying-why????? Upset over silver or relieved. I have avoided most all the threads. There is no way to satisfy an uber. YuNa did lose. She was "tepid" according to Paul Wylie, a great skater, a premier artiste of the 6.0 era. I am surprised anyone still cares. We cannot fix the judging in ISU. Only the insiders can do things to imrove the IJS. I think this is a dead issue and it makes the Korean Fed look a bit silly. So list your experts, Pantongfan, but leave your nastiness aside. No need. She lost to a very technically good skater. At least it was not ridiculous like the Vancouver win over a girl who did 3 triple axels. That was overscoring. If it was Peyongchang, Yuna would win. So what else is new? Yawn.

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