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Thread: South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging

  1. #931
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8in View Post
    Ok, this part of what you say is true. You can't account for different judges, at different competitions who have different value systems. Nonetheless, when a skater has an established their technique for certain jumps---their GOE is not supposed to fluctuate at a certain point. Unless they actually mess up a jump---or fix it in some way, or the rules change their GOE should not be swinging around wildly. That is why judges scores are averaged after all.




    And this is the part of what you say is bs. There is no such thing as GOE for a "clean performance." Every element is judged individually. That is why it is called the Technical Elements Score. That is why Hanyu can fall and still win gold. The technical score is cumulative, not holistic. Thus Carolina and Mao skating their first clean programs is irrelevant to GOE markings. In fact Mao did skate a clean long program with elements that had higher base value than anyone, and her technical score was lower than Adelina's for this exact reason. Mao properly rotating a triple axle for instance is relevant to her GOE.

    Also posture is part of skating skills and presentation (PCS). If a skater has poor core strength they will not be able to perform through the whole program.

    First of all, did you guys who post these stats things even bothered to read them?? They were not only Sochi's scores but also comparison across competitions.

    You are the one spouting BS as a clean program means that most or all of the technical elements were performed properly without clear mistakes, so of course GOEs on the whole go up as the TES all add up. A program without a fall (i.e. clean program) is a program with higher GOEs than one with falls. A fall not only has a -1, it also receives LOWER GOE.

    This has nothing whatsoever about whom should win gold, as higher BV, even with lower GOEs or falls, could very well score higher than one with lower BV but no falls.

    Please show me WHERE are the rules that say good posture gets higher PCS, or you're pulling rabbits out of a hat.

  2. #932
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    "Carriage" is one of the criteria listed under Performance/Execution.
    http://www.usfsa.org/content/JS08A-P...compexplan.pdf
    Carriage is a trained inner strength of the body that makes possible ease of movement
    from the center of the body. Alignment is the fluid change from one movement to the
    next.
    Hanyu has very bad posture with hunched over shoulders but still gets one of the highest PCS.

  3. #933
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyskates View Post
    Hanyu has very bad posture with hunched over shoulders but still gets one of the highest PCS.
    Yes, he does. To justify the high scores in performance/execution the judges evidently think that he excels in Physical, emotional, and intellectual involvement, Carriage, Style and individuality/personality, Clarity of movement, Variety and contrast, and Projection. At the Olympics only Chan, Fernandez, and Takahashi were rated higher in these areas.

    Edited to add: Here is a skater with good carriage.

    http://www.happyhoppe.com/wp-content...-Skating-1.jpg

    http://parade.condenast.com/wp-conte...Hamill-vtr.jpg

    Here's another.

    http://andrejkoymasky.com/liv/fam/bi...y02/curr2a.jpg

    http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload...5-2ca4d012b436
    Last edited by Mathman; 04-18-2014 at 03:20 AM.

  4. #934
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubirosa View Post
    You bring Korean blog as evidence? Good grief. I'd rather trust Japanese Skating Federation in this case, they are officials afterall, unlike blogger. If Kim were not referring directly or not even implying that it was Japanese skaters who disdurbed her practice, why JSF would need to come with the statement in the first place? Any answer?

    Okay, we should begin here- why needed to say in the interview that "few skaters" in the group of Kim+Asada+Suguri+Rochette+Zhang were blocking Kim's in practice? Who did? Rochette? Zhang?
    There's more if you need. http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?...aid=0002117237 http://sports.news.naver.com/sports/..._id=0001985573 http://sports.news.naver.com/sports/..._id=0001987168 http://sports.news.naver.com/sports/..._id=0002029024 Need more? The reason I posted an article from a blog(it wasn't written by a blogger, he/she just brought it from chosun ilbo) was because it was written with most details, and I tried to find the original one from its website, but couldn't find it because it's like, 5 years ago lol.
    What she can't even say she was uncomfortable in a practice? It's not like she blamed a particular country or a skater. And those above are her exact words, I heard them and saw them. I'd like to tell you the video on youtube, but it's Korean fan made, so I suppose you wouldn't like to see it.
    Lol yeah this case became huge by people like you-
    'Hey, Yuna said she was pressured by other skaters!' 'What? She was interrupted?' 'She probably means Japanese skaters, who else?(Korean, Japanese fans)'
    'Oh hey, they say Yuna's practice was interrupted by Japanese skaters! Let's publish it into articles!(Journalists)' 'It is said that Yuna said she was blocked by Japanese skaters during practice(few days after, articles)'
    'What? How dare she mock the Japanese skaters?(JSF)' 'Big news JSF reacts to Yuna Kim's interview which said she was blocked by Japanese skaters(Journalists, Japanese, Korean fans go wild)'
    'Hey....Yuna never mentioned Japan though.....(Management, KSF says but everybody ignores)'
    And 5 years later 'Yuna had said her practice was ruined by Japanese girls! She was SO rude wasn't she??'

  5. #935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Yes, he does. To justify the high scores in performance/execution the judges evidently think that he excels in Physical, emotional, and intellectual involvement, Carriage, Style and individuality/personality, Clarity of movement, Variety and contrast, and Projection. At the Olympics only Chan, Fernandez, and Takahashi were rated higher in these areas.

    Edited to add: Here is a skater with good carriage.

    http://www.happyhoppe.com/wp-content...-Skating-1.jpg

    http://parade.condenast.com/wp-conte...Hamill-vtr.jpg

    Here's another.

    http://andrejkoymasky.com/liv/fam/bi...y02/curr2a.jpg

    http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload...5-2ca4d012b436
    Exactly. This is what I meant, Carriage and Posture are two different attributes. Hanyu's Posture is terrible, but it doesn't affect his PCS. sk8in says Posture affects PCS, but nowhere in the Rulez was that stated, otherwise Hanyu would be scored badly in PCS. Hanyu's Carriage is average, if he takes dance lessons like Chan his Carriage might improve.

  6. #936
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewels View Post
    For those who're still in doubt I'll post the exact words
    (일부 선수들로부터 기선제압이 있었다)지난 4대륙 선수권 때 조금 심했다는 느낌이 들었다. 그렇게까지 해야할까라는 생각이 많이 들고 말려들지 않고 싶다. 대처 방법을 찾고 있다.
    (There was a 'pressure' from 'few' skaters)I thought it was a bit too much in 4cc. I don't know why they did it and I don't want to be included. I'm looking for a way to get over it.
    Also the 'Korean Federation' confirmed that she never mentioned a particular country or skater and that they are gonna talk with the Japanese officials. http://www.cyworld.com/yogi824_part2/2857180 (It's a blog that copied the article from Chosun Ilbo, with the name of the journalist who wrote it.)
    I dont know why you think this does yuna look better. She is accusing a few skaters, she is not saying names, so anyone could be included. It doesnt matter if she is speaking about japaneses or not. She is not talking just about feel uncomfortable, she could to feel unconfortable because she had cold, she was sick but not, she was uncomfortable because some skater was in her way, why the need of mentionating if she has not prove that it was on purpose. Even if this was not an accident of the other skater, I doubt that Is the first time that happens. I can imagine what you would be saying if Adelina would be saying something like that.

  7. #937
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    Not sure why you guys suddenly talk about something happened light years ago and had nothing to do with this subject

    Apparently, Adelina know about this complaint through her recent interview. She is really funny I must say, said that the gold is hers, she won't give it away by any chance, lol



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  8. #938
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    Yeayea, an innocent girl but she isnt smart enough in answering these questions... too sensative when it comes to talking about her gold medal LOLS

  9. #939
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    Quote Originally Posted by chapis View Post
    I dont know why you think this does yuna look better. She is accusing a few skaters, she is not saying names, so anyone could be included. It doesnt matter if she is speaking about japaneses or not. She is not talking just about feel uncomfortable, she could to feel unconfortable because she had cold, she was sick but not, she was uncomfortable because some skater was in her way, why the need of mentionating if she has not prove that it was on purpose. Even if this was not an accident of the other skater, I doubt that Is the first time that happens. I can imagine what you would be saying if Adelina would be saying something like that.
    It is a common etiquette to not be in the line of flow when it is other skater's turn to practice with the music. Yes you could still use other unused side of the ice BUT you MUST not be in the area where a skater is about to take off unless you want to be squashed down like an ugly fly.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJrl2fKOUTM

  10. #940
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    Quote Originally Posted by nguyenghita View Post
    Not sure why you guys suddenly talk about something happened light years ago and had nothing to do with this subject

    Apparently, Adelina know about this complaint through her recent interview. She is really funny I must say, said that the gold is hers, she won't give it away by any chance, lol



    http://i.imgur.com/fX3CBft.jpg
    Cre: Janet Soomin Han@Golden Yuna
    Adelina, honey,you can keep it. Nobody's gonna strip your precious gold medal. So don't you ever feel scared or anything, you poor little soul.

    Actually, the Japanese people are just being polite that's why they didn't bash her or were hostile to her like what the Russians in Sochi Oly did to Yuna and the others. That doesn't exactly mean that they don't care about Sochi controversy. Of course they do! That was the first time Mao landed her 8 triples with no glaring mistake and she wins it with a flawed program? Actually JapanTimes was one of the firsts publishers to make an article about Sochi scandal. I'm betting my bottom dollar that if she were to skate in Korea, Koreans would be polite to her too. Those people commenting in her instagram is NOT the entire country. Gosh, she sounds like some of the posters in Goldenskate.

    Sounds like she was expecting (or hoping) that everyone would forget about what happened in Sochi. Personally, I think she knows, deep down, that she didn't deserve the gold. This is all just a desperate attempt to convince herself that she was the best. She should learn some humility, because her attitude is not helping her case at all. This is coming from someone who saw a lot of promise in her.

  11. #941
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    Quote Originally Posted by chapis View Post
    I dont know why you think this does yuna look better. She is accusing a few skaters, she is not saying names, so anyone could be included. It doesnt matter if she is speaking about japaneses or not. She is not talking just about feel uncomfortable, she could to feel unconfortable because she had cold, she was sick but not, she was uncomfortable because some skater was in her way, why the need of mentionating if she has not prove that it was on purpose. Even if this was not an accident of the other skater, I doubt that Is the first time that happens. I can imagine what you would be saying if Adelina would be saying something like that.
    I didn't say Yuna looks better by that comment. Rubirosa seemed to think that Yuna had kept picking on the Japanese skaters(especially Mao for being her rival) on purpose so I was explaining that she didn't. Anyway, I can see your point too. But she didn't say that some skaters were crossing on her way, she said that she felt pressured(?I can't really explain this word in English sorry), and this interview was really short with Yuna's answer just in the video(I couldn't find what the question was, probably not included), so it was a bit hard to catch 100% what she was saying. Yuna have said that there is uncomfortable atmosphere before the competition usually, so she could have meant that getting bit worse than before. If I have one complaint, it's the Yuna's management company, they just let the problem grow without explaining her words clearly, and quickly.
    So, anyway, I've never seen her saying disrespectful things directly or blaminng a particular country or a skater, and this incident IMO, grew big with 'yeah someone said'-all the accurate facts they had were her three sentences. The thing I wrote between () wasn't in the video as well, just picked out from her management company's explanation. So judging whether she had unclassy manner or not based on that isn't really appropriate I think.

  12. #942
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    Well the group of "Japanese skaters" in question happens to include Suguri, who is well known for having a poor personality, being a diva, and for intentionally obstructing the warmups of other Japanese skaters as well (generally happened at JNats when she was concerned she might not make it to Worlds). If I wanted to put on my tinfoil hat and post a blog on dcinside or whatever that place is called, then I would say that she was a sacrificial lamb to obstruct Kim because Suguri was never winning anything anyway by that point, so if she got injured messing with Kim (don't underestimate Kim's speed through her 3F-3T, it was even bigger than her 3Lz-3T so that would be a real risk to Suguri's health), then Japan doesn't lose any medals! And it can just be chalked up to Suguri being Suguri.

    The whole thing was quite stupid and Rochette thought so too, as I think she commented that in a warm-up with 6 other skaters, there is bound to be someone close to you who might mess up one of your jump setups. We saw Yuna in her Sochi SP rolling her eyes because someone was near her every time she wanted to practice a jump.

  13. #943
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuon_alpinus View Post
    Actually, the Japanese people are just being polite that's why they didn't bash her or were hostile to her like what the Russians in Sochi Oly did to Yuna and the others.
    That's not true. I was there in Iceberg - no Russian spectators were hostile to anyone. 99% of them did not know a single name before Olympics. 90% (including myself) came to see Yulia after the team event. The only point which could be taken is Ra-ssi-ya Ra-ssi-ya. It was annoying indeed but again it had nothing to do with skaters per se. Since the Soviet years it has been cultivated here that Olympics is first of all the competition among the countries for the medal score. After the disaster in Vancouver and with the insecurity about Sochi what the Russian spectators cared of was the success of home country sportsmen, any, including Vic Wild and Victor An.

  14. #944
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    Quote Originally Posted by chapis View Post
    I dont know why you think this does yuna look better. She is accusing a few skaters, she is not saying names, so anyone could be included. It doesnt matter if she is speaking about japaneses or not. She is not talking just about feel uncomfortable, she could to feel unconfortable because she had cold, she was sick but not, she was uncomfortable because some skater was in her way, why the need of mentionating if she has not prove that it was on purpose. Even if this was not an accident of the other skater, I doubt that Is the first time that happens. I can imagine what you would be saying if Adelina would be saying something like that.
    Why should she shut up and try to prove anything first when she felt uncomfortable with any reason.
    She could say anyting if it could enhance the environment of her warm-up.
    And she was clever enough not to specify names of the interfering skaters and their country.
    When I saw the video they looked quite intentional and what Yuna had to do is not to prove it but make them stop doing it.
    And yes, it worked.

  15. #945
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    @ this thread is going.. the title of this thread is "South Korea Filing Official Complaint over Yuna Kim’s Olympic Silver".. ISU already received the complaint.. now let's move on and wait whatever decision that will be... including the usa fed's proposal to get rid of anonymous judging.. or whether speedy is going around the media make an as* of himself..

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