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Thread: South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging

  1. #961
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyskates View Post
    Proof?
    no proof of course about everything ! just gossip gossip gossip like chickens in a coop making a lot of gossip noise

  2. #962
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    Russian news about KOC protest. They are saying that Adelina had only ONE mistake in her free skate. She did a mistake but the difficulty of her program was higher then from Korean skater. Also Tarasova (Coach): " Olympic games are free of manipulation, never had, never will have. And they (Koreans) better watch skate of their own skater which is definitely extraordinary athlete but on last Olympic games (2010) I thought she got too high scores compare to Mao Asada (PS She is Mao's choreographer). And by the second score Mao should been ahead of Yuna. It was impossible to compete. Adelina won so fair, over-jumped, her rotations were on different level. Adelina's win was pure." Then they are talking about Russian pair split. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbdjMdHnfVA -from fb

  3. #963
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    again I listened to (non-Russian) commentators during Yuna's free program, noting imperfect reception on a triple lutz, saying that the results would be tight, then that her program was maybe not enough to beat Sotnikova.

  4. #964
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petitefleur View Post
    again I listened to (non-Russian) commentators during Yuna's free program, noting imperfect reception on a triple lutz, saying that the results would be tight, then that her program was maybe not enough to beat Sotnikova.
    oh please

    http://vimeo.com/89457478 Sky Italia

    http://vimeo.com/88149429 CBC

  5. #965
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    It's obvious why the judges didn't notice it -- because the competition was rigged. It made no difference what the skaters did. Even Lipnitskaia (a 15 year old junior with no acclaim a month before Sochi) fell all over herself for two days and still earned a score high enough for the bronze at last Olympics. If she hadn't fallen down she probably would have scored over 230 herself.
    Ok so you say it was rigged? How? What ISU rule was in place that was violated?

    Yulia no acclaim? Come on. We've discussed this plenty to know she has acclaim? Euros Gold, two GP gold and a GPF silver. Not worthy of acclaim. How about being the best female skater in the team OLYMPIC event which landed her a GOLD medal. I'll even give you Caro over a Yulia in the SP. Yulia was still the best...no argument! Lets at least be real about it. I didn't see a Russian judge or tech specialist in Japan for WC's. Was that rigged too? She scored a 207 there!!

  6. #966
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuon_alpinus View Post
    oh please

    http://vimeo.com/89457478 Sky Italia
    ] CBC
    we recognize indeed the Italian exuberance! I listened to the end, he says that Yuna was perfect, but finally recognizes that she lacks a triple jump over Sotnikova, that her 2nd triple lutz was not perfect, that Sotnikova presented an Olympic program. The commentator says the interpretation of Yuna was above...and that figure skating is not just accounting...
    which is an error, since in fact, all the elements have their value !

  7. #967
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petitefleur View Post
    we recognize indeed the Italian exuberance! I listened to the end, he says that Yuna was perfect, but finally recognizes that she lacks a triple jump over Sotnikova, that her 2nd triple lutz was not perfect, that Sotnikova presented an Olympic program. The commentator says the interpretation of Yuna was above...and that figure skating is not just accounting...
    which is an error, since in fact, all the elements have their value !
    Tbh the Italian male commentator, the expert one not the general, did ask forgiveness in studio an hour later for his comments made in haste.
    He thought Yuna should've won but he sees no scandal in Adelina's victory. His words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petitefleur View Post
    we recognize indeed the Italian exuberance! I listened to the end, he says that Yuna was perfect, but finally recognizes that she lacks a triple jump over Sotnikova, that her 2nd triple lutz was not perfect, that Sotnikova presented an Olympic program. The commentator says the interpretation of Yuna was above...and that figure skating is not just accounting...
    which is an error, since in fact, all the elements have their value !
    Don't make me belittle Adelina Sotnikova. I don't want to. But I am extremely displeased by judges' decision over Adelina's performance. Judges should have caught her under-rotated jumps and wrong edges. This part is very objective part of judging and cannot be argued. When they say that the triple cost her 5 points, they are referring to just long program. FYI, If you sum up sp and lp, the base-value difference is just 1.44 points. The commentator said yuna's second 3lz wasn't perfect. yes but it definitely wasn't a jump that was going to be penalized. He said that it won't change anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cuon_alpinus View Post
    Judges should have caught her under-rotated jumps and wrong edges. This part is very objective part of judging and cannot be argued. When they say that the triple cost her 5 points, they are referring to just long program. FYI, If you sum up sp and lp, the base-value difference is just 1.44 points. The commentator said yuna's second 3lz wasn't perfect. yes but it definitely wasn't a jump that was going to be penalized. He said that it won't change anything.
    I agree. The tech. panel was not at all objective. The Level of step seq. was wrong too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cuon_alpinus View Post
    Don't make me belittle Adelina Sotnikova. I don't want to. But I am extremely displeased by judges' decision over Adelina's performance. Judges should have caught her under-rotated jumps and wrong edges. This part is very objective part of judging and cannot be argued. When they say that the triple cost her 5 points, they are referring to just long program. FYI, If you sum up sp and lp, the base-value difference is just 1.44 points. The commentator said yuna's second 3lz wasn't perfect. yes but it definitely wasn't a jump that was going to be penalized. He said that it won't change anything.
    Yeah they are so caught up in explaining why Adelina deserved a higher score in lp that it seems they've forgotten about sp lol.

  11. #971
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuon_alpinus View Post
    it is normal that commentators enjoyed this beautiful program, the choreography, and Yuna has so many qualities.
    everyone noted the small error in the jump...so Yuna and Adelina were not perfect...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgXKJvTVW9g
    discussion between the commentators after 5'45: superb, she has nothing left, but it is very closed, there is room, a difference of 5 points in technical elements, not good enough ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petitefleur View Post
    it is normal that commentators enjoyed this beautiful program, the choreography, and Yuna has so many qualities.
    everyone noted the small error in the jump...so Yuna and Adelina were not perfect...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgXKJvTVW9g
    discussion between the commentators after 5'45: superb, she has nothing left, but it is very closed, there is room, a difference of 5 points in technical elements, not good enough ...
    You don't seem to get my point. There was a difference between Adelina's errors and Yuna's error. Adelina's errors(under-rotation, two-footed landing, wrong edge, wrong jumping technique, etc) deserve penalties of negative GOE, while Yuna's error(little shaky on the landing) deserves penalties of less positive GOE. And that commentator is not a bible. She certainly misses a point of comparing a short program. According to "her logic" of technical elements, Yuna should have gotten 2 points higher in her short program. But it certainly wasn't, right?

  13. #973
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuon_alpinus View Post
    The commentator said yuna's second 3lz wasn't perfect. yes but it definitely wasn't a jump that was going to be penalized. He said that it won't change anything.
    I am just speaking about the free program and the commentaries on TV. Of course, a skater can win even with a fall. Yes the italian commentator said that the mistake in this jump won't change anything , but it is "his" opinion ! why are you focusing ONLY on Sotnikova's minore mistake and do you forget the one made by Kim? Not adding a triple jump costed Yuna the gold.
    I remember a commentator at the 1998 olympic games, won Lipinsky, who pointed to Kwan that she had room and the possibility of adding a triple in his free program...

  14. #974
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    no proof of course about everything ! just gossip gossip gossip like chickens in a coop making a lot of gossip noise
    If only it were just gossiping and rumors...they have also launched attacks on Adelina, Russia, Putin and Cinquanta.

    Quote Originally Posted by cuon_alpinus View Post
    Don't make me belittle Adelina Sotnikova. I don't want to. But I am extremely displeased by judges' decision over Adelina's performance. Judges should have caught her under-rotated jumps and wrong edges. This part is very objective part of judging and cannot be argued. When they say that the triple cost her 5 points, they are referring to just long program. FYI, If you sum up sp and lp, the difference is just 1.44 points. The commentator said yuna's second 3lz wasn't perfect. yes but it definitely wasn't a jump that was going to be penalized. He said that it won't change anything.

    You guys have already belittled Adelina all over the internet and on every Youtube, every forum, every news media related to Sochi. Thousands of thumbs down on every Adelina video. Death threats were already sent to her, her social media sites have been disfigured by the legions of Yuna hooligan fans. She is only 17, and her "mistake" to suffer vilification and her life made hell was to be awarded OGM over Yuna, who has already pocketed her first OGM. Yuna's fans are determined to RUIN Adelina, a 17yr old and a very good figure skater in her own right, for shame!

    As for SP & LP, the judges for SP awarded Adelina TES GOE marks HIGHER than Yuna, despite a 1 pt TES BV advantage for Yuna. How do you explain the conflict of interest there?
    Already for SP, judges marked Adelina as a technically stronger skater.

    Statistically, you can't take total GOE of one skater and compare that to another, as the Base Value of their technical elements are different. It's comparing apples and oranges. So more accurately, we need to arrive at a RATIO of TES/BV

    GOE awarded as a RATIO of TES are as follows

    Yuna = 35.89/31.43 = 1.142
    Adelina = 35.55/30.43= 1.168

    Adelina's award over Yuna for SP = +0.026


    The LP BV difference is 3.94.

    Adelina's total TES/BV = 75.54/61.43 = 1.229
    Yuna's TES/BV = 69.69/57.49 = 1.212

    Adelina's award of GOE over Yuna = +0.017

    So the judges during the SP were even MORE generous (150% more generous) towards Adelina's GOE than the judges in the LP. Yet there were NO PROTEST when the SP results were out.

    LP judges were slandered accused of fraud, corruption, dragged through the mud, etc., yet they were LESS generous towards Adelina than the SP judges.


    EDIT: As was pointed out, I mistakenly used PCS scores for SP. In fact, the SP judges were even MORE generous than LP judges, they gave 250% higher GOE than LP judges.

    So the SP RATIO of TES/BV

    Adelina = 39.09/30.43 = 1.285
    Yuna = 39.03/31.43= 1.242


    Adelina's GOE (as a ratio of BV) AWARD over Yuna for SP = +0.043

    In contrast, Adelina's GOE (as a ratio of BV) over Yuna's for LP = +0.017


    SP judges awarded GOE advantage to Adelina = 0.043/0.017x100% = 250% MORE than LP judges.



    So WHY is it that ONLY LP judges are singled out for allegations of fraud, attacked for bias, etc., when they in fact gave a much lower % of POSITIVE GOE to Adelina over Yuna than the SP judges?

    The award of GOE to Adelina vs Yuna by SP judges over LP judges is MUCH BIGGER than what I pointed out.

  15. #975
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    2014 is not 2010. Skaters have improved. In 2010, I agree that Yuna was the better, however, I (and others) did not accept a so large gap between Yuna and Mao (more than 18 points in the free program), one might think that Yuna has been widely overscored in 2010.

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