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Thread: South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging

  1. #976
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petitefleur View Post
    2014 is not 2010. Skaters have improved. In 2010, I agree that Yuna was the better, however, I (and others) did not accept a so large gap between Yuna and Mao (more than 18 points in the free program), one might think that Yuna has been widely overscored in 2010.
    I think the tendency of judges under IJS scoring is to inflate the scores of the person that they think skated the best. or the skater that they want to win, just to make sure that the podium comes out the right way. If you just gave fair marks to each element, etc., who knows how it might add up in the end?

    This was not a problem in 6.0 ordinal judging. If you thought that skater X was more deserving than skater Y you could give one 5.7, 5.8 and the other 5.7, 5.7. The score is close, but the judge has control over who gets the first place ordinal without artificially jacking up the scores.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyskates View Post
    Death threats were already sent to her, her social media sites have been disfigured by the legions of Yuna hooligan fans. She is only 17, and her "mistake" to suffer vilification and her life made hell was to be awarded OGM over Yuna, who has already pocketed her first OGM. Yuna's fans are determined to RUIN Adelina, a 17yr old and a very good figure skater in her own right, for shame!

    As for SP & LP, the judges for SP awarded Adelina TES GOE marks HIGHER than Yuna, despite a 1 pt TES BV advantage for Yuna. How do you explain the conflict of interest there?
    Already for SP, judges marked Adelina as a technically stronger skater.

    Statistically, you can't take total GOE of one skater and compare that to another, as the Base Value of their technical elements are different. It's comparing apples and oranges. So more accurately, we need to arrive at a RATIO of TES/BV

    GOE awarded as a RATIO of TES are as follows

    Yuna = 35.89/31.43 = 1.142
    Adelina = 35.55/30.43= 1.168

    Adelina's award over Yuna for SP = +0.026


    The LP BV difference is 3.94.

    Adelina's total TES/BV = 75.54/61.43 = 1.229
    Yuna's TES/BV = 69.69/57.49 = 1.212

    Adelina's award of GOE over Yuna = +0.017

    So the judges during the SP was even MORE generous towards Adelina's GOE than those in the LP.
    Long time no see I previously stated that I despise those who give personal insults to others. And I am deeply ashamed of them and furious at them . And You are exaggerating too much dude. Those guys are not even figure skating fans and shouldn't listen to them. I don't consider those immature people as fans of anyone.

    And you are not comparing TES on the short program. That score is PCS my friend

    And TES/BV on your LP. It only indicates the biased judging. You know that they didn't even mark wrong edges and under-rotation, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cuon_alpinus View Post
    Long time no see I previously stated that I despise those who give personal insults to others. And I am deeply ashamed of them and furious at them . And You are exaggerating too much dude. Those guys are not even figure skating fans and shouldn't listen to them. I don't consider those immature people as fans of anyone.

    And you are not comparing TES on the short program. That score is PCS my friend

    And TES/BV on your LP. It only indicates the biased judging. You know that they didn't even mark wrong edges and under-rotation, right?

    Thank you for pointing out!

    So the SP RATIO of TES/BV

    Adelina = 39.09/30.43 = 1.285
    Yuna = 39.03/31.43= 1.242


    Adelina's GOE (as a ratio of BV) AWARD over Yuna's for SP = 1.285 - 1.242 = +0.043

    In contrast, Adelina's GOE (as a ratio of BV) over Yuna's for LP = 1.229 - 1.212 = +0.017

    SP judges awarded GOE to Adelina (advantage over Yuna) = 0.043/0.017x100% = 250% MORE than LP judges.

    So it is BIGGER than what I pointed out, thank you for correction.

    If you want to go after FRAUDULENT judging please go after those SP judges first, because they gave Adelina much higher GOE marks vs Yuna than the LP judges.

    Therefore I don't understand the huge eruption, the slander, libel, accusations, etc., over the LP judges, the Russian judge who hugged Adelina, the corrupt Ukraine judge , etc. when the SP judges were apparently "more corrupt" than the LP judges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyskates View Post
    Thank you for pointing out!

    So the SP RATIO of TES/BV

    Adelina = 39.09/30.43 = 1.285
    Yuna = 39.03/31.43= 1.242


    Adelina's GOE (as a ratio of BV) AWARD over Yuna's for SP = 1.285 - 1.242 = +0.043

    In contrast, Adelina's GOE (as a ratio of BV) over Yuna's for LP = 1.229 - 1.212 = +0.017

    SP judges awarded GOE to Adelina (advantage over Yuna) = 0.043/0.017x100% = 250% MORE than LP judges.

    So it is BIGGER than what I pointed out, thank you for correction.

    If you want to go after FRAUDULENT judging please go after those SP judges first, because they gave Adelina much higher GOE marks vs Yuna than the LP judges.

    Therefore I don't understand the huge eruption, the slander, libel, accusations, etc., over the LP judges, the Russian judge who hugged Adelina, the corrupt Ukraine judge , etc. when the SP judges were apparently "more corrupt" than the LP judges.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking all this time. Since everyone is so caught up in lp scores, they seem to have forgotten all about sp. I don't know if there was a corruption or something going on behind their backs, but one thing is sure, that the score was favorable to Adelina in total, with all the GOEs and PCS she received, whether it was the judges' intention, or mistake.

  5. #980
    Love popcorn, hate horendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewels View Post
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking all this time. Since everyone is so caught up in lp scores, they seem to have forgotten all about sp. I don't know if there was a corruption or something going on between their backs, but one thing is sure, that the score was favorable to Adelina in total, with all the GOEs and PCS she received, whether it was the judges' intention, or mistake.
    How was Adelina's SP scored before Sochi? I mean her highest SP before Sochi?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    How was Adelina's SP scored before Sochi? I mean her highest SP before Sochi?
    Mmm, I may not be correct, but I think it was 70.73 in 2014 European championships.

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    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    Hmmm.....was that her highest pcs?

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    @qwertyskates

    Your analysis is incorrect. In LP, Sot's one jump combo got negative GOE yet Yuna did not have ANY element getting negative GOE at all. Sot got more advantageous GOEs in other elements than Yuna did. You have to compare the average of positive GOEs only, to make your point accurately. For me, Sot's average GOE in LP with mistakes higher than Yuna's simply shows how lenient and ignorant judges were, to Sot's mistakes.

    As the analysis frim Italian physicist shows, it is true that Sot got extremely generous GOEs from two judges and lot more generous GOE from two other judges compared to other five judges. This kind of disparity somehow happens only to two Russian skaters according to his analysis of TES in LP at Sochi. Therefore it is natural to have a doubt whether at least two judges were extremely in favor of Russian skaters in LP.

  10. #985
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewels View Post
    Mmm, I may not be correct, but I think it was 70.73 in 2014 European championships.
    You are correct and in GPF she scored 68.38
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._SP_Scores.pdf

    It's hard to compare anything to her Sochi FS because outside of Euros she wasn't exactly nailing it this season and the scores are a bit wild. She did seem to deliver that SP well all season long and it was getting respect pre Sochi and putting her in position for wins.

  11. #986
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewels View Post
    Hmmm.....was that her highest pcs?
    It appears so unless you count Russian Nats where she was scored 73.8.

  12. #987
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    and 2 months after the Euros,Adelina skated better...so 74 points is not outrageous. And everything can change, from one day to another (Mao for exemple)...
    Given all the writings in circulation, if I was at ISU, I would say that many people think one thing and the other think the reverse, that 9 judges selected by random ruled in their conscience, that only a final difference of 5 points is not outrageous, and a silver medal for a semi-retired skater is unexpected ... well, !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petitefleur View Post
    and 2 months after the Euros, she skated better...so 74 points is not outrageous. And everything can change, from one day to another (Mao for exemple)
    Yeah 5 point difference in each competition is not that outrageous right?-she received about 60 in COC, 64 in Eric Bompard, 69 in European, 74 in Sochi. Whole 14 points up in one season. Let's look at Carolina who had similar route. About 65 in COC, 68 in Rostelecom cup, 71 in European, 73 in sochi. And do you honestly believe Adelina deserved higher pcs in sochi than Caro, with almost all of them over 9 except transition which was 8.96? Better skating skills, better transitions, and better choreography?

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    It is outrageous when her PCS already went up by 5 points. There has to be a ceiling of improvement on someone's PCS when they're skating the same program all season long. Bottom line is PCS are there to reward skaters who work on their packaging/movements outside of jumps and spins. It isn't supposed to go up just because a skater's improved athleticism---which naturally happens in a competitive season.

  15. #990
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewels View Post
    Yeah 5 point difference in each competition is not that outrageous right?-she received about 60 in COC, 64 in Eric Bompard, 69 in European, 74 in Sochi. Whole 14 points up in one season. Let's look at Carolina who had similar route. About 65 in COC, 68 in Rostelecom cup, 71 in European, 73 in sochi. And do you honestly believe Adelina deserved higher pcs in sochi than Caro, with almost all of them over 9 except transition which was 8.96? Better skating skills, better transitions, and better choreography?
    Yuna is good in everything, Carolina had the best choreography, but fighted with a few of her jumps.
    A difference of 14 points within 4 months is not a scandalous improvement.
    If you compare to Hanyu: he was second behind Chan at SC and TEB... at skate Canada, Hanyu obtained 234.80, at TEB he obtained 263.59, and in Sochi he obtained 280.09...

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