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Thread: South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging

  1. #991
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewels View Post
    Yeah 5 point difference in each competition is not that outrageous right?-she received about 60 in COC, 64 in Eric Bompard, 69 in European, 74 in Sochi. Whole 14 points up in one season. Let's look at Carolina who had similar route. About 65 in COC, 68 in Rostelecom cup, 71 in European, 73 in sochi. And do you honestly believe Adelina deserved higher pcs in sochi than Caro, with almost all of them over 9 except transition which was 8.96? Better skating skills, better transitions, and better choreography?
    Look...I'm not saying that Adelina's PCS in Sochi were correct (let's face it, it's undeniable they were inflated) but 14 points of PCS difference in one season, especially an Olympic season, is nothing new or special. You can't compare scores across different judging panels--scores tend to go up throughout the season for the same program, especially when it's a big event like the Olympics. Here is Yu-Na's PCS for her Gershwin LP during the 2009-2010 season:

    2009 Skate America: 61.52
    2009 Trophee Eric Bompard: 66.40
    2009 GPF: 61.52
    2010 Olympics: 71.76

    = basically a whole 10 points up in one season.

    Or for an example this season, let's look at Yuzuru Hanyu's LP PCS:
    2013 Skate Canada: 76.86
    2013 TEB: 81.94
    2013 GPF: 92.38
    2014 Olympics: 90.98
    2014 Worlds: 91.42

    = so basically Hanyu's PCS had an approximately 15 point spread over the course of one season for the same program. Note the impressive 11-point jump between TEB and the GPF.....now, that is something interesting.

  2. #992
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petitefleur View Post
    Yuna is good in everything, Carolina had the best choreography, but fighted with a few of her jumps.
    A difference of 14 points within 4 months is not a scandalous improvement.
    If you compare to Hanyu: he was second behind Chan at SC and TEB... at skate Canada, Hanyu obtained 234.80, at TEB he obtained 263.59, and in Sochi he obtained 280.09...
    You're now comparing with men's scores? lol don't you think you've gone too far? I think they are gonna go over 300 soon.
    Give me another female skater whose pcs rose more than 14 points this season.

    Quote Originally Posted by Petitefleur View Post
    and a silver medal for a semi-retired skater is unexpected
    I would say a skater who was 9th in last years worlds, 5th in gpf, and no titles in any major competition in her senior career would be more unexpected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    Look...I'm not saying that Adelina's PCS in Sochi were correct (let's face it, it's undeniable they were inflated) but 14 points of PCS difference in one season, especially an Olympic season, is nothing new or special. You can't compare scores across different judging panels--scores tend to go up throughout the season for the same program, especially when it's a big event like the Olympics. Here is Yu-Na's PCS for her Gershwin LP during the 2009-2010 season:

    2009 Skate America: 61.52
    2009 Trophee Eric Bompard: 66.40
    2009 GPF: 61.52
    2010 Olympics: 71.76

    = basically a whole 10 points up in one season.

    Or for an example this season, let's look at Yuzuru Hanyu's LP PCS:
    2013 Skate Canada: 76.86
    2013 TEB: 81.94
    2013 GPF: 92.38
    2014 Olympics: 90.98
    2014 Worlds: 91.42

    = so basically Hanyu's PCS had an approximately 15 point spread over the course of one season for the same program. Note the impressive 11-point jump between TEB and the GPF.....now, that is something interesting.
    In 2010 olympic games, there were others whose pcs got up that much too. How about Mao who went from 60(eric bompard) to 67(oly)? How about Joannie who went from 58(COC) to 68(oly)? As for men, I haven't got anything to say, because I don't know about men much and I don't just assume things.

  4. #994
    Custom Title chapis's Avatar
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    So, it is ok up the pcs for Yuna, Mao and Joannie in just one season, but not for Adelina. Very convenient.

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    No it isn't ok for any skater. That leap for Hanyu is insane. A 15 point spread is a lot bigger than a 10 point spread. And Yuna was known for setting world records under the CoP system outside of 'major' competitions at that point. There was at least precedent for her to raise her scores like that based on being an outstanding.

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    Adelina's pcs boost was still 4 points higher than them, can't say that's little as it can make difference to the results.
    And IMO it's more appropriate to compare with other skaters from this quad. I was using Mao and Joannie's pcs because they were Yuna's rivals at that time, and I wanted to explain how 'all' of them got up not just Yuna.
    So anyway are you suggesting that Adelina deserved higher pcs than Mao and Caro in Sochi? I thought that was the main argument here.

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    If you want to talk about men, then there are some examples:

    Javier FERNANDEZ 253.92 (Olympic) ---> 275.93 (WC)
    PCS: 89.14 (Olympic) --> 91.18 (WC)
    Tatsuki Machida 253.42 (Olympic) ---> 282.26 (WC)
    PCS: 82.50 (Rostelecom) --> 88.22(Olympic) --> 90.20 (WC)

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    It would be nice to see how much all the ladies skaters' PCS went up over this past season as well. Did they all get an equal boost, or were their PCS raised differently to negate their value? Carolina is known for high PCS right? And she got 10s at Sochi, but her PCS was still lower than Adelina's because you can't get higher than a 10. What the judges did was jack up Adelina's PCS so much, that there was no room for other skaters to best her in that half of the score. That is why it is outrageous. Maybe skaters typically get PCS boosts over the course of a season, but if that is the case it should be done proportionally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    so basically Hanyu's PCS had an approximately 15 point spread over the course of one season for the same program. Note the impressive 11-point jump between TEB and the GPF.....now, that is something interesting.
    I think Hanyu often gets high PCS in GPF, maybe because he often peaks at that time. Note that Hanyu got 85.16 PCS in the last season GPF. From GPF 2012 (85.16) to GPF 2013 (92.38) = 7.11 point different in a year.

    If you are talking about the same program, then Hanyu was tedious at Skate Canada. He was not as tedious at TEB. And very very good at GPF. The 11 point different in PCS is quite something though. The funny things is, with 102.03 TES, Hanyu only needed 82 PCS to beat PChan in GPF 2013. That means 11 point different in PCS from TEB to GPF was not essential for his win there because his TES only was enough for him to stand on the 1st place.

    I think the judges were generous in PCS in all season. After worlds, Javi and Machida also gets 90s PCS now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewels View Post
    Adelina's pcs boost was still 4 points higher than them, can't say that's little as it can make difference to the results.
    And IMO it's more appropriate to compare with other skaters from this quad. I was using Mao and Joannie's pcs because they were Yuna's rivals at that time, and I wanted to explain how 'all' of them got up not just Yuna.
    So anyway are you suggesting that Adelina deserved higher pcs than Mao and Caro in Sochi? I thought that was the main argument here.
    This. Gotta compare apples to apples and not apples to oranges.

    Also, aren't men's PCS calculated differently?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8in View Post
    It would be nice to see how much all the ladies skaters' PCS went up over this past season as well. Did they all get an equal boost, or were their PCS raised differently to negate their value? Carolina is known for high PCS right? And she got 10s at Sochi, but her PCS was still lower than Adelina's because you can't get higher than a 10. What the judges did was jack up Adelina's PCS so much, that there was no room for other skaters to best her in that half of the score. That is why it is outrageous. Maybe skaters typically get PCS boosts over the course of a season, but if that is the case it should be done proportionally.
    Did you notice how you start of by clearly admitting that you don't actually know the PCS scores and how much they went up yet you have no problem concocting a conspiracy theory and convicting Adelina by the end and calling it outrageous without any evidence other than your own musing. It must be nice to think whatever you want and it's automatically some profound truth or something without citing a single source.

  12. #1002
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilahozi View Post
    This. Gotta compare apples to apples and not apples to oranges.
    Also, aren't men's PCS calculated differently?
    Yes, Men's PCS factor is 2.0, while ladies' PCS factor is 1.6

  13. #1003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewels View Post
    Adelina's pcs boost was still 4 points higher than them, can't say that's little as it can make difference to the results.
    And IMO it's more appropriate to compare with other skaters from this quad. I was using Mao and Joannie's pcs because they were Yuna's rivals at that time, and I wanted to explain how 'all' of them got up not just Yuna.
    So anyway are you suggesting that Adelina deserved higher pcs than Mao and Caro in Sochi? I thought that was the main argument here.
    Yuna did not deserved to be higher than Mao in the lp at Sochi, but even she was, it is unfair but it is like that, judging and scores always had been a big joke, now you noted because this time affected to Yuna.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chapis View Post
    Yuna did not deserved to be higher than Mao in the lp at Sochi, but even she was, it is unfair but it is like that, judging and scores always had been a big joke, now you noted because this time affected to Yuna.
    This!!! 100 times over!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chapis View Post
    Yuna did not deserved to be higher than Mao in the lp at Sochi, but even she was, it is unfair but it is like that, judging and scores always had been a big joke, now you noted because this time affected to Yuna.
    Mao's score was held down. Yuna's is fine. Mao's score isn't discussed as much because her short already took her out of medal contention.

    If anything, Mao and Adelina's scores should be switched. Mao is the one who deserved a 149, and a 142 seems just for Sotnikova.

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