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Thread: South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging

  1. #1036
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    Yes but Caro deserved higher PCS. Even in her SP, she deserved higher PCS.
    I dont think her SP deserved any higher PCS. The same at best. I do agree she clearly deserved higher PCS in the LP than Yu Na (and both light years higher PCS than Sotnikova), but lower TES than Yu Na in both programs was correct. How the overall results between the two would then come out is harder to say, but probably Yu Na would be barely ahead just as it was.

  2. #1037
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I dont think her SP deserved any higher PCS. The same at best. I do agree she clearly deserved higher PCS in the LP than Yu Na (and both light years higher PCS than Sotnikova), but lower TES than Yu Na in both programs was correct. How the overall results between the two would then come out is harder to say, but probably Yu Na would be barely ahead just as it was.
    Personally I find it hard to choose Caro or Yuna since I am not fan of either, so whoever win is not my concern. Their SP should have been tied. But Caro's PCS in free skate should be much better than Yuna. While Yuna was kinda flat in her free skate. There are other ladies who used the same music, and they were much more lively than Yuna.
    Caro was much better in free skate, in my opinion. Under the 6.0 system, Caro deserves 6.0 across board for the artistic side.

  3. #1038
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    Pangtongfan, calling someone idiot and lack of intelligence does not make you look smart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    I find it funny that when Yuna's fans want fair score, it only means they want the fair score for Yuna. What about other skaters?
    If they were scored truthfully, then Mao should have won the free skate. It does not mean people want her to medal. It only means it is her fair score. She should have broke the record with the free skate that night, despite not winning any medal at all. She was the one that moved people's tears that night, not Yuna or Adelina. Yes, she would not medal but she deserved the 1st place in the free skate, was that too much to ask?

    Having said that, I am not Mao's fan at all.

    If they were scored truthfully, then Caro or Yuna should have won overall. This is open to your debate. The scores have been crazy for 2 years, not just on Sochi, anyone who follow figure skating know this, yet you only go crazy because you think it affect your idol.
    I have never stated that I only wanted fair scores for Yuna. You can check my post history if you so desire.

    I too believe that Mao should have won the free skate, and with a world record score to boot. As I stated earlier, pangtongfan's rank of the free skate is more justifiable. Perhaps a medal for Mao is too much to ask, but a win in the free skate is more than fair.

    I have also said that the gold medal debate should have been between Yuna and Carolina. Either would have made a great Olympic champion.

    Nothing I have said disagreed too far from your viewpoint, yet you freely label someone a bot. Well done.

  5. #1040
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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymous penguin View Post
    I have never stated that I only wanted fair scores for Yuna. You can check my post history if you so desire.

    I too believe that Mao should have won the free skate, and with a world record score to boot. As I stated earlier, pangtongfan's rank of the free skate is more justifiable. Perhaps a medal for Mao is too much to ask, but a win in the free skate is more than fair.

    I have also said that the gold medal debate should have been between Yuna and Carolina. Either would have made a great Olympic champion.

    Nothing I have said disagreed too far from your viewpoint, yet you freely label someone a bot. Well done.
    Sorry for some misunderstanding. I agree with you.

    Having said that, can you find the word "bot" in my post? Never had I used that word before.

  6. #1041
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meoima View Post
    Brian Orser, Yuna's ex coach, said he only watched ladies event through TV so he couldn't say anything for sure about the scores. But he thought Caro should have been the winner overall. I see it's so subjective about this matter. But he also think Yuna and Caro should have been scored higher.
    Whoa. I know David Wilson gave a statement, but when did Brian Orser speak out about the ladies' results?

  7. #1042
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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymous penguin View Post
    No, but the point stands that disagreeing with the Olympic results does not automatically make someone a Yuna uber.
    I also disagree with the score at Olympic. I am just annoyed by some people who ask for justice only because of their idol. Having said that, I defend Yuna several times already. Sorry for misunderstanding you.

  8. #1043
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    I think the only real outcome of this protest is to keep up the heat here for yet another hundred or thousand posts. Otherwise it would be dead by now. The true scandal would be if it had any impact whatsoever. Because there are no hard proofs of intentional wrongdoing and no violations of any codes.

    The truly outstanding twist would be should Yuna decide to reemerge like Phoenix just before the Olympics. She will be only 27 then, why not? Then the question is what minimum tech difficulty will be enough to guarantee her gold? I think that unless key competitors start to fall, she will need at least 7 triples (I know that 8 is out of question right now but it may change or quads may appear) and a couple of powerful combos. I mean that Sochi routine will be not enough even in Korea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by samkrut@mail.ru View Post
    I think the only real outcome of this protest is to keep up the heat here for yet another hundred or thousand posts. Otherwise it would be dead by now. The true scandal would be if it had any impact whatsoever. Because there are no hard proofs of intentional wrongdoing and no violations of any codes.

    The truly outstanding twist would be should Yuna decide to reemerge like Phoenix just before the Olympics. She will be only 27 then, why not? Then the question is what minimum tech difficulty will be enough to guarantee her gold? I think that unless key competitors start to fall, she will need at least 7 triples (I know that 8 is out of question right now but it may change or quads may appear) and a couple of powerful combos. I mean that Sochi routine will be not enough even in Korea.
    I actually do agree a 2nd gold or any medal changes would be stupid. I never like that happening even in the case of the worst judging decisions. I hated Sale & Pelletier's 2nd time gold medal despite that on that particular night they were royally screwed (but nobody said a thing when B&S were royally screwed in favor of the often overrated and overmarked S&P atleast 3 times the 2 years before that, but that is another topic).
    I think that should NEVER be the solution.

    In this case I think the entire figure skating judging in Sochi though was a joke and obviously corrupted by outside influences. It goes far beyond Sotnikova vs Kim vs Kostner vs Asada, and in fact far beyond the ladies event. The other events were all terribly scored and gave the impression of being fixed. It was just fortunate the performances panned out in such a way there wasnt a majorly obviously wrong result as far as the medals like there was in the ladies before the ladies event. In fact I think it was a fluke and a huge unlikely stroke of luck that did not occur. A large investigation should be done in all that went on in Sochi, regarding the judging of all the events, right up to starting from the Team Event which despite the right medals being given out to each country, also had some very questionable, and at times downright blatantly wrong scoring across all the programs. Of course as the ISU are probably at the core of this corruption they would never do this. It would be like investigating themselves.

  10. #1045
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    Quote Originally Posted by chapis View Post
    So, it is ok up the pcs for Yuna, Mao and Joannie in just one season, but not for Adelina. Very convenient.
    Let's just assume that it's okay for the scores to be inflated. But in Sochi, Yuna's scores weren't inflated like many other skaters. Don't you find this unfair?

    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Except Yu Na Kim was not overscored in Vancouver. And a clean Mao would not have deserved to beat Kim in Vancouver.

    Yu Na has never won an event or medal in her whole career she didnt clearly deserve. While she has been blindly robed of atlast 2 world or olympic titles (or atleast was clearly better than the winner)- 2011 worlds and 2014 Olympics, and arguably (although not without dispute) robbed of another at the 2008 worlds. How can a skater who clearly should have 5 or 6 world or Olympic titles but only have 3, and blew the field away in all 3 she won indicating that is the only way the judges ever let her win, be an overmarked skater. If anything she is probably one of the most wuzrobbed by the judges skaters in history. Which is to be expected being a star from a puny skating country with no money, a tiny federation, and no political power at all. I am not even a Yu Na fan either, and unlike practically everyone else dont even consider her a top 5 skater all time (which many have gotten on me for) It clear the complete opposite is true, and as I said a skater coming from one of the skating poorest federations could ever possibly be anything but undervalued by judges. Anyone who follows the sport and actually knows it history would know this.
    You have my words. I think the biggest flaw of Yuna Kim is that she's Korean LOL. If she was Russian, Japanese, or American... The rest is up to you.

  11. #1046
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    Quote Originally Posted by samkrut@mail.ru View Post
    I think the only real outcome of this protest is to keep up the heat here for yet another hundred or thousand posts. Otherwise it would be dead by now. The true scandal would be if it had any impact whatsoever. Because there are no hard proofs of intentional wrongdoing and no violations of any codes.

    The truly outstanding twist would be should Yuna decide to reemerge like Phoenix just before the Olympics. She will be only 27 then, why not? Then the question is what minimum tech difficulty will be enough to guarantee her gold? I think that unless key competitors start to fall, she will need at least 7 triples (I know that 8 is out of question right now but it may change or quads may appear) and a couple of powerful combos. I mean that Sochi routine will be not enough even in Korea.
    Or the impact of this protest is to make people think hard about the strengths and weaknesses of the current judging system, and to evaluate whether certain aspects should be changed (ex: anonymous judging).

    Also, don't you launch a investigation when there is suspicion of wrongdoing in order to FIND evidence?

  12. #1047
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuon_alpinus View Post
    You have my words. I think the biggest flaw of Yuna Kim is that she's Korean LOL. If she was Russian, Japanese, or American... The rest is up to you.
    Nation is not a good indicator. We believe that often Russia is treated unfairly in various sports. There was a doping scandal in SLC 2002. They found something in the blood of one of our biathlon skiers and announced that 5 minutes before the relay start. It was impossible to replace the skier and the whole team was disqualified although they knew doping test results well in advance. At the same time we have the whole Norvegian team who have had asthma or "asthma" for many years so that they consume some stuff all the time. We have Magdalena Noyner who retired in her prime (25 years old) winning all the starts just 2 years before Sochi, etc.

    Well, the USA is the exception in terms of power. Not only does it control the doping thing. I mean it decides when and whom to announce. Everybody "knew" that Armstrong showed superhuman results winning one Tour de France after another. Especially after he overcame sort of a terminal illness. It took many years before he was revealed. How many "American heroes" have not been revealed yet? It could be only USA in SLC who simply took the gold medal from a Korean short-track skater (poor poor Korea) on a very dubious accusation. If the popularity of that guy had been at the similar level to Yuna's, the outcry would have been even greater than now. It was just the outrageous cynicism. But he was just another short-track skater and the power to deal with was the mighty USA not a 70-year old Lakernik.

    I treat the long life of this particular topic as a forced entertainment during the off-season. There were scandals - there will be scandals. Very soon this particular one will die down together with multiple other old stories.

  13. #1048
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    @samkrut: I don't understand what you're responding to. Cuon_alpinu's original post meant that if Yuna Kim was Russian, Japanese, or American, the level of outcry her skating federation would've raised would be much bigger than what we're seeing now, and there would be more outrage.

  14. #1049
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilahozi View Post
    @samkrut: I don't understand what you're responding to. Cuon_alpinu's original post meant that if Yuna Kim was Russian, Japanese, or American, the level of outcry her skating federation would've raised would be much bigger than what we're seeing now, and there would be more outrage.
    Personally I don't think Asian feds have as much power as Russian, Canada or American fed. Daisuke lost the gold in 2012 to PChan who fell in the free yet I didn't see any outcry from JFS.
    Then again, even Russian fed couldn't demand another gold for Plushy in 2010.

  15. #1050
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilahozi View Post
    @samkrut: I don't understand what you're responding to. Cuon_alpinu's original post meant that if Yuna Kim was Russian, Japanese, or American, the level of outcry her skating federation would've raised would be much bigger than what we're seeing now, and there would be more outrage.
    And I gave you one example of our biathlon team in which 3 out 4 had no doping problems and we had a replacement. Yet due to a set up the team was disqualified. Yes, it was some fruitless noise for a day or two. We had Alexey Nemov who himself had to pacify a non Russian crowd who believed that an American gymnast just robbed him, etc. etc. We believe that the Pluschenko vs. Lysacek case was not less controversial than this one. You might give many reasons that they are very very different, but this is a battle of opinions. Russia was very depressed. Did we collect millions of signatures or pursue protests for months after Vancouver? No - people here are used to the fact that depending on the point of view life may seem very unfair. And it seems often very unfair to the Russians.

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