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Thread: South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging

  1. #1696
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I don't know. I think both systems are easy for the average viewer to understand.

    In ordinal judging, when the Lithuanian judge gave skater X a first place ordinal, it meant that the Lithuanian judge thought that skater X gave the best performance. I, the viewer, might have thought that skater Y gave a better performance. OK. But the Lithuanian judge thought that skater X did.

    As for the new scoring system, you get points for all the little tricks that you do. When the points are added up, skater X got 154.82 and wins, skater Y got 147.56 and takes second. I, the viewer, might have liked skater Y's performance better, but skater X ended up with more points.

  2. #1697
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    But do you know Skater Y earned more points or simply received more points?

    If you watch a basketball game and a foul is called when one didn't happen, it's probably just a bad call. But if the referee continues to call fouls against one team when none actually happen, the other team argues, the tv crew shows the replays, and the audience can see that something is not right. The same in soccer with a bad handball call ... one might be a bad call, but if it happens over and over again, obviously the referee is corrupt.

    At Sochi, all of the suspicious tech calls, GOEs, and PCS scores happened in much the same way. Except nobody complains until a month later, the tv crew does not show the replays and examine the calls, etc. All they did was trot out red herring arguments to defend the results, regardless of what happened on the ice. The end result was most people feeling that what took place was not right, but they could not put their finger on why it was not right. And when that happens, they get frustrated and tune out.

  3. #1698
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    I don't understand why no one seems to remember that there was plenty of cheating in 6.0 when the judging was NOT ANONYMOUS.

  4. #1699
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooper View Post
    once and for all if ISU dismissed this case because they said that there was no bias then reveal the scores!!!! russia (and the US) advocates to get rid of anonymous judging.. so why not show the judges' scores in sochi?? there's nothing to hide.. right??



    what the heck??!! you're joking right? so in short it's OK for you that someone who cheats already is in the judging panel.. just say it already..
    No. That's not what I meant. What I meant was that Balkov alone could not have done much so getting angry at him alone is wrong. He may have cheated, he may not have, we don't know. All I'm saying is that, had Balkov not been on the panel, Adelina would have still won.

  5. #1700
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    The KSU has always been an incompetent, passive agent in skating issues (I feel sorry for Kim that she's had to deal with them so long)
    So why isn't she speaking out now? For the sake of So-Youn Park and company? She's done and will have zero repercussions. So all I take from the whole debate is this. Yuna is silent. KSU put forward a hypocritical and easily dismissible complaint. Most importantly the world rankings are pretty accurate. The only anamoly here is Sochi and those involved aren't doing anything for whatever reasons they have. If the rest of the figure skating world ie rankings are intact....then why should I care about this specific situation? I think Sochi was an outlier scenario in the big scope of things. So why should I or anyone else make a stink of it if the people involved don't seem to care??

    **crickets**

  6. #1701
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    ^As I've said before, the issue at hand is bigger than whether Yuna Kim should get the OGM, or if she gives a flying rat's *** about Sochi, or if the KSU cares. The issue that people should care about is how Sochi brought to light possible flaws with the current judging and scoring system that allowed for this kind of controversy (or at least, that's what I'm most concerned about), and how they should be addressed. Kim, Sotnikova, etc. are just conduits for this larger issue.

    An apt analogy would be the ongoing Roman Polanski case. It's been years since he committed his rape, his victim has moved on and has publicly expressed that she forgives him and wants to drop the case, but yet the judicial system is still intent on prosecuting him, and people care enough to be out for his blood. Why? Because the case isn't just about the victim anymore, but is about a crime that Polanski committed against society (legal principle). The same logic extends to this situation.

  7. #1702
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    So why isn't she speaking out now? For the sake of So-Youn Park and company? She's done and will have zero repercussions. So all I take from the whole debate is this. Yuna is silent. KSU put forward a hypocritical and easily dismissible complaint.
    My god, what is Yuna doing here? Just stop bring her into here, she has no responsibility in this bunch of crap. For So Youn sake, Yuna is coaching her in LA instead of speaking out against anything, anyone else. Yuna is no longer under KSU and they didn't control or care for her for a long long time. What KSU is doing now just because they be pressured by the Korean public outraged, not because of Yuna or their sport in general

  8. #1703
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    Quote Originally Posted by AliceInWonderland View Post
    I don't understand why no one seems to remember that there was plenty of cheating in 6.0 when the judging was NOT ANONYMOUS.
    This is true. However, it did mean they got caught every now and then.

  9. #1704
    Love popcorn, hate horrendous costumes. Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesWay View Post
    This is true. However, it did mean they got caught every now and then.
    Yup, that's why I said if we couldn't do anything about the current CoP, at least erase the anonymous judging.

  10. #1705
    Yuna's Ice Rink cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    So why isn't she speaking out now? For the sake of So-Youn Park and company? She's done and will have zero repercussions. So all I take from the whole debate is this. Yuna is silent. KSU put forward a hypocritical and easily dismissible complaint. Most importantly the world rankings are pretty accurate. The only anamoly here is Sochi and those involved aren't doing anything for whatever reasons they have. If the rest of the figure skating world ie rankings are intact....then why should I care about this specific situation? I think Sochi was an outlier scenario in the big scope of things. So why should I or anyone else make a stink of it if the people involved don't seem to care??

    **crickets**
    because yuna is too busy coaching team korea in LA.. and like what she said sochi is already over and doesn't want to be involved in anything related to it..

  11. #1706
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    The IJS hornswoggles us out of making any sense of these numbers at all. Here are the total PCS given by the nine judges, listed in two different orders.

    SOT 48.25…..48……48……47.75..46.5….45.5….45...44.25...44.25
    KIM …48……….47.75……47……..46.25……46…….45.25…..42…48.25…...45.25

    Sotnikova wins 7 to 2.

    Here are the same numbers arranged differently.

    KIM 48.25……48……47.25…47…..46.75….46….45.25…45.25….42
    SOT ….48…...47.25….46.5….45.5…..45…..44.25….44.25… 48.25….48

    Mow Kim wins 7 to 2.

    Under ordinal judging, even with anonymity at least we knew how many forst place ordinalsd each skater received.
    If seven judges gave Yuna higher GOE, she would have won GOE, isn't it?

  12. #1707
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    There is no controversy about Sotnikova's win outside of South Korea and some skating forums. Sotnikova has the higher jump content, superior spins and steps. It's quite arrogant to assert that a technically inferior skater should "win" as long as she skates "cleanly" because she is the "queen". Maybe the results could be different in other countries, but in this sport, it requires absolutely superior performances to beat the home favorite. It's simply impossible with Kim's content. Probably the "judging" at London worlds gave her (and S Koreans) false confidences.

  13. #1708
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    There is no controversy about Sotnikova's win outside of South Korea and some skating forums. Sotnikova has the higher jump content, superior spins and steps. It's quite arrogant to assert that a technically inferior skater should "win" as long as she skates "cleanly" because she is the "queen". Maybe the results could be different in other countries, but in this sport, it requires absolutely superior performances to beat the home favorite. It's simply impossible with Kim's content. Probably the "judging" at London worlds gave her (and S Koreans) false confidences.
    and only in one country the posters and news is being parroted

  14. #1709
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    Quote Originally Posted by AliceInWonderland View Post
    I don't understand why no one seems to remember that there was plenty of cheating in 6.0 when the judging was NOT ANONYMOUS.
    Or home cooking.

    I was watching a video of a very young Plushenko a little while back - I think he was sixteen or seventeen.

    All the judges gave him 5.7-5.8 in the technical mark - he had skated clean. Just a little tilt on one jump. The American judge? 5.5.

    All the judges gave him 5.8-5.9 in the technical mark. The American judge? 5.5.

    Oh whoops sorry I forgot, only the EVIL RUSSIANS cheat the marks or do home cooking!

  15. #1710
    Custom Title mirai4life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    There is no controversy about Sotnikova's win outside of South Korea and some skating forums. Sotnikova has the higher jump content, superior spins and steps. It's quite arrogant to assert that a technically inferior skater should "win" as long as she skates "cleanly" because she is the "queen". Maybe the results could be different in other countries, but in this sport, it requires absolutely superior performances to beat the home favorite. It's simply impossible with Kim's content. Probably the "judging" at London worlds gave her (and S Koreans) false confidences.
    Yes because Sotnikova is the best skater in the world with those Component scores.

    What kind of overnight success? What did the judges drink the night before the Olympics?
    WOO. Simply put, with the normal judging, Sotnikova would be way behind Kim in both SP and LP. bye.

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