South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging | Page 12 | Golden Skate

South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging

MiRé

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Korea is corrupt...

Regardless of any corruption at Sochi, it is very offensive for Korea to do this at the beginning of Worlds. If Korea was concerned about the purity of sport, they wouldn't have timed their 'complaint' to strategically coincide with Worlds. For Korea to choose this time to formally accuse the Russian judges of favoritism against Asians is an outright vicious gesture against the Worlds competitors, particularly Russian ones. Talk about a corrupt conspiracy. I hope ISU smacks Korea down for their blatant attack on the athletes. (I will say, though, that it was supremely stupid to have those two judges on at Sochi, because it allowed conspiracy theories to fester and caused Korea to retaliate in such a way against Worlds. Hopefully this won't happen again, because this is why we can't have nice things.)

Did you even watch the Olympics?
 

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Korea is corrupt...

Regardless of any corruption at Sochi, it is very offensive for Korea to do this at the beginning of Worlds. If Korea was concerned about the purity of sport, they wouldn't have timed their 'complaint' to strategically coincide with Worlds. For Korea to choose this time to formally accuse the Russian judges of favoritism against Asians is an outright vicious gesture against the Worlds competitors, particularly Russian ones. Talk about a corrupt conspiracy. I hope ISU smacks Korea down for their blatant attack on the athletes. (I will say, though, that it was supremely stupid to have those two judges on at Sochi, because it allowed conspiracy theories to fester and caused Korea to retaliate in such a way against Worlds. Hopefully this won't happen again, because this is why we can't have nice things.)

It wasn't timed with Worlds. It was done on the last possible day to file a complaint.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Again, I would posit that it is far more common for those who disagree with a result to complain than those who hold the opposing point of view

if you want it put a different way for every expert, ex champion, reporter, commentator, coach around the world who spoke out about the result for every 1 that defended it there were about 30 who disagreed. Break it down from any angle you like, but it is clear almost everyone thought the ladies judging in Sochi was corrupt and wrong. I dont state that just because it is my view. It is my view Hughes should not have won the OGM in 2002, but I know that isnt a majority view so I never refer to it as such; unlike this where it is an overwhelming majority view, and one of the biggest controversies in skating history.

Meanwhile no the neutrals are not the ones being attacked. Troll accounts mostly with very Russian names, who all opened after the Olympics, who are insulting Yu Na Kim (a skater who has never had a single controversial victory in her entire career, and quite a few controversial losses) rather than arguing why Sotnikova's hotly disputed win was valid based on skating are not neutrals. They are Russian trolls upset about the raging controversy, who are appropriately treated by the rest of us as such. If you have actually read any of this thread and have astonishingly concluded that someone like Rubirosa is a "neutral" poster, then.....:laugh: :popcorn:
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
If an extraordinary situation is uncovered its not impossible that a result would be to formally disqualify sotnikova and her medal given to Yuna. That's what they want to happen. A formal asterisk next to sotnikovas name at least is what they are after.

Following this logic, the result might also be that the gold medal given to Costner. ;-)
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Sotnikovas medal won't get taken away no matter what the outcome is unless they can prove wrongdoing by her. I actually do believe her results are fair at least as fair as Sarah Hughes winning in SLC.

If anything soth Korea is at least going for a second gold then or an asterisk and basic invalidation of the ladies event. Maybe no ones medals are taken away but the whole event loses official sanction and its all unofficial. Like for 1994 United States now has no ladies champion. That's what South Korea wants.

It doesn't work that way. Everyone around the world knows that Teodoro Mbasogo, President of Equitorial Guinea, is a corrupt tyrant. But he is still the President of Equitorial Guinea.

Maybe we should get up a petition. ;)

Well South Korea wants to pull off an Iraq on sotnikova! This is not regime change but medal change!
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Following this logic, the result might also be that the gold medal given to Costner. ;-)

That would be fine. The result would certainly make alot more sense than what took place. I am not even entirely sure of what the results should have been. What is plainly obvious to anything with a set of eyes, who is uninhibited by strong bias is:

1. Sotnikova deserved no higher than 4th in the LP (vs being awarded 1st place in the LP by 6-8 points over 3 much better performances) and 3rd place overall.
2. The composition of the panel and all the signs point to a fixed event.
3. The entire figure skating competition, not just the ladies, had suspicious judging from start to finish at best.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
An official with the KOC said it will send a joint letter with the KSU to the ISU after obtaining Kim’s consent. The official said the two South Korean bodies will demand a thorough investigation into the makeup of the judging panel in Sochi and also ask the ISU take extensive reform measures to prevent a recurrence of such judging disputes.

Which judges in specific. Is it about the Ukraine judge or the Russian?
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
That would be fine. The result would certainly make alot more sense than what took place. I am not even entirely sure of what the results should have been. What is plainly obvious to anything with a set of eyes, who is uninhibited by strong bias is:

1. Sotnikova deserved no higher than 4th in the LP (vs being awarded 1st place in the LP by 6-8 points over 3 much better performances) and 3rd place overall.
2. The composition of the panel and all the signs point to a fixed event.
3. The entire figure skating competition, not just the ladies, had suspicious judging from start to finish at best.

My personal opinion on the standing is:

SP:

1. Costner or Yuna
2. see above
3. Sotnikova

LP:
1. Costner
2. Sotnikova
3. Yuna

Having said that. I would've given the gold to Yuna. :)
 

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
If anything soth Korea is at least going for a second gold then or an asterisk and basic invalidation of the ladies event. Maybe no ones medals are taken away but the whole event loses official sanction and its all unofficial. Like for 1994 United States now has no ladies champion. That's what South Korea wants.

Wrong. They are not going for a second gold or a removal of the current Olympic champion's gold medal.

http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com...aid=2986801&cloc=joongangdaily|home|newslist2

“Since figure skating is not an event where we can overturn a result, we decided to complain to the ISU for having assigned inappropriate people to the judging panel,” said a Korea Olympic Committee spokesman.

They admit that they cannot overturn the result. Their complaint is about the composition of the panel and whether the scoring was fair.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Wrong. They are not going for a second gold or a removal of the current Olympic champion's gold medal.

http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com...aid=2986801&cloc=joongangdaily|home|newslist2



They admit that they cannot overturn the result. Their complaint is about the composition of the panel and whether the scoring was fair.

If they find the scoring was not fair than the next logical step is to do something where the unfairness is remedied! That may include stripping the gold from stonikova and giving it to Yuna or having another gold or having a formal asterisk or decertification of the ladies event so where 2014 results are all unofficial.

If its only about rule changes then rule changes could be:
1. No panel can have 2 people of the same national origin
2. No panel can have 2 ova's or ovs or Iks or ikas or ev or eva's regardless if they share ethnicity
3. No panel can have 2 or more judges from countries that used to be part of the same country
4. No panel can have 2 or more judges - you have to be specific here- from any country to be formerly of the soviet bloc in Eastern Europe if Russia is also on the panel and maybe even if it isn't so maybe no Poland or Slovakia or you can have Poland and Slovakia as long as there's no Russia
5. If a judge is found to have violated rules then they are just banned for life- no suspensions
 

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
I get the investigation on the scoring. I don't get the one about the panel though.

Well, there was a known cheater on the panel. How did that person get there? Did they have anything to do with the controversial scoring? That is part of their complaint, from what I understand from the articles. I haven't read the complaint in its entirety, though.

If they find the scoring was not fair than the next logical step is to do something where the unfairness is remedied! That may include stripping the gold from stonikova and giving it to Yuna or having another gold or having a formal asterisk or decertification of the ladies event so where 2014 results are all unofficial.

Give it up. I already cited a quote saying you're wrong. They are not going to overturn the result. Stop scaremongering.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Well, there was a known cheater on the panel. How did that person get there? Did they have anything to do with the controversial scoring? That is part of their complaint, from what I understand from the articles. I haven't read the complaint in its entirety, though.



Give it up. I already cited a quote saying you're wrong. They are not going to overturn the result. Stop scaremongering.

The known Cheater has been on dozens of panels since his suspension. He's considered reformed. Proof is needed to see if he's still a Cheater. Or isu should say once a cheater always a cheater banned for life!

It's not proper to think if South Korea finds corruption and proves it they won't seek medal adjustments!! How could they not? You go to the CAS and say Yuna was robbed giver her a gold!
 

capcomeback

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
If they find the scoring was not fair than the next logical step is to do something where the unfairness is remedied! That may include stripping the gold from stonikova and giving it to Yuna or having another gold or having a formal asterisk or decertification of the ladies event so where 2014 results are all unofficial.

If its only about rule changes then rule changes could be:
1. No panel can have 2 people of the same national origin
2. No panel can have 2 ova's or ovs or Iks or ikas or ev or eva's regardless if they share ethnicity
3. No panel can have 2 or more judges from countries that used to be part of the same country
4. No panel can have 2 or more judges - you have to be specific here- from any country to be formerly of the soviet bloc in Eastern Europe if Russia is also on the panel and maybe even if it isn't so maybe no Poland or Slovakia or you can have Poland and Slovakia as long as there's no Russia
5. If a judge is found to have violated rules then they are just banned for life- no suspensions

There is more than one panel to examine. Considering aside from Alla on the judging panel, you also have Lakernik as the Tech Controller and Alexander Kuznetsov, who was the Replay Operator. I'm not aware of the other judges previous relationship to the previous Russian Ice Federation before the republics split from the Soviet Union (if any), but there are some concerns based upon the the scores that Adelina received in subjective measures and mistakes on the tech panel.
 

winky97

Medalist
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Sotnikovas medal won't get taken away no matter what the outcome is unless they can prove wrongdoing by her. I actually do believe her results are fair at least as fair as Sarah Hughes winning in SLC.

As I have said in previous posts, Sarah Hughes and Adelina Sotnikova head the top of my list as the worst OGMs ever in ladies figure skating, but IMO, Sarah, in that moment at least earned hers, as painful as it was for me. Michelle and Irina messed up their programs, and Sarah did not. Adelina's OGM is WAAAAY more questionable. She will keep it though.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Well, there was a known cheater on the panel. How did that person get there? Did they have anything to do with the controversial scoring? That is part of their complaint, from what I understand from the articles. I haven't read the complaint in its entirety, though.

Yes, but that was a well known thing in advance. Why wait for the final result in order to do that?
I would fully unnderstand and support if you do that before. Doing it now makes me think that the reasonbehind such a move it's not about improving the system, and fairness, but it'a about trying to find a justification for a result that you didn't like.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
There is more than one panel to examine. Considering aside from Alla on the judging panel, you also have Lakernik as the Tech Controller and Alexander Kuznetsov, who was the Replay Operator. I'm not aware of the other judges previous relationship to the previous Russian Ice Federation before the republics split from the Soviet Union (if any), but there are some concerns based upon the the scores that Adelina received in subjective measures and mistakes on the tech panel.

Are you aware of judges from other countries, and the position they held in their respective federations? How comes that's not a conflict of interests?!
No one seems to answer that question.

Sorry, no disrespect, but to bring the data operator in this discussion it's ridiculous.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
There is more than one panel to examine. Considering aside from Alla on the judging panel, you also have Lakernik as the Tech Controller and Alexander Kuznetsov, who was the Replay Operator. I'm not aware of the other judges previous relationship to the previous Russian Ice Federation before the republics split from the Soviet Union (if any), but there are some concerns based upon the the scores that Adelina received in subjective measures and mistakes on the tech panel.

Well saying the tech panel was too russian and proving they were cheating for the benefit of sotnikova are separate. You would need real proof that Lakernik, kuznetsov and baranova were working together and fraudently. South koreas main point could just be there were just too many Russians from russia and a russian from finland and former soviets and therefore rules must be changed to avoid so many people of one ethnicity from judging an event. That the isu must implement strict limits on ethnicity in judging panels.
 
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