Bye-bye Ottavio, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging
- Thread starter avantgardener
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Bye-bye Ottavio, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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Frank Carroll.
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I would give the guys a break. After the outrage it's a normal depression phase before the acceptance of the inevitable. We in Russia had our share of outrage/depression with Slutskaia, Pluschenko, recently in hockey against USA. But we had and we will have many more world and Olympic champions in FS and hockey. We just won fair and square the world title in hockey with a 10 game win streak - everyone here has forgotten Sochi immediately: there was honking all night long in Moscow. Korea on the other hand might not have another Yuna - I can to some extent sympathize with their feelings. I could imagine what outcry would have been in China had Liu Xiang in his prime had lost with a controversy for example when another guy cut him like the one on the clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd-DJnY72AI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd-DJnY72AI
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- Feb 17, 2010
Oh yes, because if the "authority figures" say so, then it's true. Never question authority!If there's no physical evidence or any "credible" leaks, then that must mean the situation has no warrant for an investigation, and everyone who disagrees and are suspicious are just bitter, sore losers who should be ignored.
There's nothing to investigate. If any of the 9 federations felt pressured to inflate Russian skaters' scores, that would have leaked by now. Someone among those federations would have been unhappy with the cheating and leaked that to the media. It hasn't happened. You can continue whining but if you think think "attributing made-up statements to a certain skater" is bona fide evidence of a cover up, rather than a dumb mistake, then that's not very convincing. Nor is hugging a judge, a president sitting next to the head of the ISU, or allegations that a female judge is physically threatening.
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- Mar 23, 2010
This was dated February 8th:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/s...ating-deal-includes-an-odd-alliance.html?_r=0
The report claimed that the Russians and USFS colluded to rig the Team, Pairs, and Dance competitions.
Team:
The deal saw Russian and US blocs rig the Team Event for Russia, who was in competition with Canada. Many people noted that Plushenko and Lipnitskaia received wildly inflated scores, and indeed the result was accurately predicted ... Russia won.
Pairs:
The deal saw Russian and US blocs rig the Pairs competition for Russia. The Americans were not competitive in this event, but received a trade-off in the Ice Dance. V/T of Russia made obvious mistakes (hand on ice) that were not penalized through corruption, and the wildly inaccurate scores forced their competitors to go for broke in the LP (not that it would have mattered anyway). Regardless whether one thinks the placements were correct or not, the evidence points to a fix because of the scoring inaccuracies for V/T. Result ... as the scandal predicted, Russia won.
Mens:
Neither the Russians nor Americans were competitive in this event, and arguably it was the most fairly and accurately judged event of the entire Olympics.
Ice Dance:
The Americans were top contenders vs. the Canadians, and according to the deal, the Americans received Russian support to fix this contest, in return for their cooperation in the previous mentioned events. There is historically little scoring difference between the top ice dance teams, but at these Olympics the Americans' score was far and away greater than the Canadians ... this bias ensured that the Americans, like the Russians in Pairs, could make mistakes and still win no matter what was done on the ice. Not surprisingly, the outcome predicted by the scandal was confirmed, and the Americans won.
Ladies:
The ladies event was not mentioned in the scandal article before the Olympics, but circumstantial evidence points to this competition being involved in the collusion as well. For one, the scoring discrepancies were not just limited to the Free Skate in the Ladies Event ... it started with the short program, where there was no Russian judging bloc. Despite American and more western judges in the short program, Kim and her 3Lz+3T barely lead Sotnikova and her 3T-3T. Sotnikova was in fact also inexplicably ahead of Kostner. Gold also had her scores wildly inflated compared to the top ladies. This indicates that the Americans were further involved with the Russians in conspiring to fix the Ladies result.
Those three -- Sotnikova, Lipnitskaia, and Gold -- the Russians and the Americans linked together again.
Without collusion, none of the Russian or American ladies could overtake a clean Kim, Asada, or Kostner. Mao Asada had a disaster in her short program, but even had she skated clean she would have inexplicably lost to a clean Sotnikova, Lipnitskaia, and Gold. Kim and Kostner would have lost too. Inexplicably, if all the skaters had gone clean, it would have been 1. Sotnikova 2. Lipnitskaia 3. Gold or 1. Lipnitskaia 2. Sotnikova 3. Gold with Kim, Asada, and Kostner getting nothing.
This shows what a farce the ISU and the IOC are and why nobody cares to watch figure skating. It's unfortunate that there are articles about match fixing in major French, British, Canadian, and American newspapers, and millions of people have signed petitions to investigate the judging at these competitions, and that any real-time thread you choose to read of the events is full of comments mocking the scores.
What an embarrassment for the sport of figure skating, if you can even call it that anymore.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/s...ating-deal-includes-an-odd-alliance.html?_r=0
The report claimed that the Russians and USFS colluded to rig the Team, Pairs, and Dance competitions.
Team:
The deal saw Russian and US blocs rig the Team Event for Russia, who was in competition with Canada. Many people noted that Plushenko and Lipnitskaia received wildly inflated scores, and indeed the result was accurately predicted ... Russia won.
Pairs:
The deal saw Russian and US blocs rig the Pairs competition for Russia. The Americans were not competitive in this event, but received a trade-off in the Ice Dance. V/T of Russia made obvious mistakes (hand on ice) that were not penalized through corruption, and the wildly inaccurate scores forced their competitors to go for broke in the LP (not that it would have mattered anyway). Regardless whether one thinks the placements were correct or not, the evidence points to a fix because of the scoring inaccuracies for V/T. Result ... as the scandal predicted, Russia won.
Mens:
Neither the Russians nor Americans were competitive in this event, and arguably it was the most fairly and accurately judged event of the entire Olympics.
Ice Dance:
The Americans were top contenders vs. the Canadians, and according to the deal, the Americans received Russian support to fix this contest, in return for their cooperation in the previous mentioned events. There is historically little scoring difference between the top ice dance teams, but at these Olympics the Americans' score was far and away greater than the Canadians ... this bias ensured that the Americans, like the Russians in Pairs, could make mistakes and still win no matter what was done on the ice. Not surprisingly, the outcome predicted by the scandal was confirmed, and the Americans won.
Ladies:
The ladies event was not mentioned in the scandal article before the Olympics, but circumstantial evidence points to this competition being involved in the collusion as well. For one, the scoring discrepancies were not just limited to the Free Skate in the Ladies Event ... it started with the short program, where there was no Russian judging bloc. Despite American and more western judges in the short program, Kim and her 3Lz+3T barely lead Sotnikova and her 3T-3T. Sotnikova was in fact also inexplicably ahead of Kostner. Gold also had her scores wildly inflated compared to the top ladies. This indicates that the Americans were further involved with the Russians in conspiring to fix the Ladies result.
Those three -- Sotnikova, Lipnitskaia, and Gold -- the Russians and the Americans linked together again.
Without collusion, none of the Russian or American ladies could overtake a clean Kim, Asada, or Kostner. Mao Asada had a disaster in her short program, but even had she skated clean she would have inexplicably lost to a clean Sotnikova, Lipnitskaia, and Gold. Kim and Kostner would have lost too. Inexplicably, if all the skaters had gone clean, it would have been 1. Sotnikova 2. Lipnitskaia 3. Gold or 1. Lipnitskaia 2. Sotnikova 3. Gold with Kim, Asada, and Kostner getting nothing.
This shows what a farce the ISU and the IOC are and why nobody cares to watch figure skating. It's unfortunate that there are articles about match fixing in major French, British, Canadian, and American newspapers, and millions of people have signed petitions to investigate the judging at these competitions, and that any real-time thread you choose to read of the events is full of comments mocking the scores.
What an embarrassment for the sport of figure skating, if you can even call it that anymore.
be careful.. you never know..
It already did leak, it was in the news before and during the Olympics.
Dated February 8th:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/s...ating-deal-includes-an-odd-alliance.html?_r=0
The Americans were not competitive in Pairs, and the Russians were not in contention for the OGM in Dance, so the two sides conspired to rig each of those events, a trade between Russian Federation and USFS, with the Russians also winning the Team Event vs. Canada.
Neither the Russians nor the Americans had any chance in the Men's event, and not surprisingly that was the event that was the most fairly scored.
In ladies, Kim, Asada, and Kostner were in a different league than the other skaters, but suddenly overnight Sotnikova, Lipnitskaia, and Gold -- three juniorish Russian and American skaters, two of which had no major senior international victories a couple weeks before the Olympics -- would have finished 1-2-3 if they had all managed to go clean.
This is why people don't watch figure skating ... because the results are not determined by what the competitors do on the ice. The results are determined by deals and corruption, and that's why there are so many unfortunate articles about "figure skating scandal" in major news outlets throughout Europe, Asia, Canada, and America, and why millions of people have signed petitions to investigate the scoring.
Where there's smoke there's fire, and that's the case in competitive figure skating, if you can even call it competitive anymore.
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I keep waiting for L'equipe's follow-up on this article. I think it is important to note that the newspaper makes no independent charge; it merely passes along information contributed by an unnamed "Russian coach." The mystery coach has never been identified, nothing further came of the accusation, and L'equipe has been content to let the matter drop.
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So anonomys judging ney, anonomys sources yay:confused2:
Why do you assume someone has to have leaked the information by now? What if no one was unhappy with the cheating? That's a lot of faith in leaks.
Nowhere did I say that making up statements is bona fide evidence of a coverup, nor do I believe hugging a judge or the ISU head sitting next to Putin mean anything significant (selective misinterpretation and mis-attribution much?). I said many things looks fishy ( (including making up statements), and it doesn't do the IOC/ISU any PR favors to stay silent on the matter and not even address legitimate concerns that this controversy has raised up, as well as so incompetent that they don't even double-check their public statements.
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The Americans were winning the Ice Dance in the last 2 years, and even before that except for the Worlds in 2011.
Was that thanks to the agreement with the Russians as well. Do you really think that 2 judges were enough to secure a win in every competition that D&W were partecipating? And what was Scate Canada doing in the meanwhile, when this supposed conspiracy took place?
If there was an agreement this was done on a higher level.
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- Apr 11, 2013
A load of BULL. Meryl and Charlie won, deal with it. Some USFSA judges were among the most vocal against Adelina's win. The USFSA was also the one who submitted a petition to get rid of anonymous judging. You have such a selective memory
The same one that was on the judging panel for the Short Program, where Kim had a technically superior program, was described as "flawless" (not criticized for holding back), but barely managed to outscore Sotnikova? How did Yuri Balkov and Alla Shekhovtsova manage to influence the short program scores?
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Oh it was l'equipe? Lol don't they have a new "scandal" every month?
How does on explain not only the GOEs, but the incorrect calls on the levels and the jumps?
As I've said many times, if one scoring element were a little off then you could surmise that an unintentional mistake was made. But the scoring was incorrect throughout every single component of the scores. The jumps were not judged correctly, as BoP pointed out here the levels were not called correctly, and the GOEs for the Russians in particular were disgraceful and not earned. The fact that the scoring has been independently shown to be wrong in every single category shows there was a willful effort on the part of some or many judges and ISU officials to rig the results.
As I've said many times, if one scoring element were a little off then you could surmise that an unintentional mistake was made. But the scoring was incorrect throughout every single component of the scores. The jumps were not judged correctly, as BoP pointed out here the levels were not called correctly, and the GOEs for the Russians in particular were disgraceful and not earned. The fact that the scoring has been independently shown to be wrong in every single category shows there was a willful effort on the part of some or many judges and ISU officials to rig the results.
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