South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging | Page 76 | Golden Skate

South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging

sk8in

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 15, 2014
Not true. A number of other posters have defended Adelina and Yulia, including Sam Skwanch. Most of them have dropped this fruitless argument by this time. Their lady won and has the hardware to show for it. They will never convince those who thought either Yuna or Carolina should have won, so they are discussing other topics.


In the parlance of poker, "Losers cry, 'Deal.'"

Not winners. They are off celebrating and counting their winnings.
Except if Adelina came in fourth or fifth it would not have been mildly controversial if at all.
If Polina Edmunds were placed in third after the short program, and Gracie Gold was in fourth, Adelina was in fifth, and Yulia was in sixth---it wouldn't have been remotely controversial. The American ladies had far and away superior layouts to Adelina. 3Lz-3T, 3F vs 3T-3T, 3F. Adelina only placed in third because of PCS and GOE. The controversy is over widespread Russ-flation home cooking.
 

Meoima

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Joined
Feb 13, 2014
no.. but at least one time in the sport a south korean admitted that the result was wrong but the russians NEVER admitted anything in their life that they also cheated.. that's the difference.. they have this aura that they won fair and square..
I am not Russian and not a basketball fan so I will leave it to a Russian to reply. But agree with Sam, you are simply biased and your statement about Russians in sport is extremely offensive.

When I mention the World Cup 2002, I simply mentioned football in particularly, that event was truly scandal and the fraud was visible dirty because it involved not only 1 but 4 teams. I resent the atrocious judging in World Cup 2002 because it is the most popular sport and people all over the world except US maybe were following that fraud. By no means I think all Korean people are wholly frauds. They are just innocent as the Russian fans.

It's the feds that played dirty and FIFA has numerous dubious activities and I think that scandal was just one in many, nevertheless 2002 was the dirtiest football scandal in this century so far.

Then you said as if all the Russian people are frauds. Good grief!
 

sk8in

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Joined
Jan 15, 2014
How can you rationally explain the point spread between Yuna, Carolina, Adelina, and Gracie and Polina after the short program, when you look at the fact that they all skated clean?

And to underscore this point, how are Yuna Caro and Adelina's scores virtually identical after the short but so far ahead of Polina and Gracie's? How is that anything but completely arbitrary? All five skated clean short programs. Of the 5 Carolina and Adelina were the two weakest technically. And Adelina is not a particularly polished skater.
 

cooper

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
I am not Russian and not a basketball fan so I will leave it to a Russian to reply. But agree with Sam, you are simply biased and your statement about Russians in sport is extremely offensive.

When I mention the World Cup 2002, I simply mentioned football in particularly, that event was truly scandal and the fraud was visible dirty because it involved not only 1 but 4 teams. I resent the atrocious judging in World Cup 2002 because it is the most popular sport and people all over the world except US maybe were following that fraud. By no means I think all Korean people are wholly frauds. They are just innocent as the Russian fans.

It's the feds that played dirty and FIFA has numerous dubious activities and I think that scandal was just one in many, nevertheless 2002 was the dirtiest football scandal in this century so far.

Then you said as if all the Russian people are frauds. Good grief!

oh please.. why is my post offensive? i know what you're trying to insinuate in the first place..:rolleye: so i give you an example and you just annoyed because it is the truth... and now you're putting something in my mouth once again.. when i say russians.. i say russians in sports... :rolleye: they never admitted anything in their life that they cheated..
 

Meoima

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Joined
Feb 13, 2014
oh please.. why is my post offensive? i know what you're trying to insinuate in the first place..:rolleye: so i give you an example and you just annoyed because it is the truth...
Ask Sam, an American if she find your comment offensive. Sam said yes.
Me, an Asian, also think it's offensive.

Because our posts mentioned Federations, not all people of any particular country. FIFA is dirty as people always know it. But to allow the scandal to such level, it's one of a kind. And you said as if the whole particular nation is frauds. That's offensive. Roll eyes as much as you want. I am sure your biased against Russians has gone high.

I give you the most famous one in the history of football in this century. I happen to be a football fan, nonetheless. I did not try to insinuate anything other than: If you want to talk about scandals in sports, then you have it. One of dirtiest ones.
4 teams with more than 11 players each, not including the coaches, not only one individual.
 

cooper

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Ask Sam, an American if she find your comment offensive. Sam said yes.
Me, an Asian, also think it's offensive.
I give you the most famous one in the history of football in this century. I happen to be a football fan, nonetheless. I did not try to insinuate anything other than: If you want to talk about scandals in sports, then you have it. One of dirtiest ones.
4 teams with more than 11 players each, not including the coaches, not only one individual.

yes.. you were.. you tried to stir something.. and now i give you my point and now i'm offending somebody..as if "sam" is not bias too.. anything that involved her beloved julia she will go on defensive.. so please.. :rolleye:
 

Meoima

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Feb 13, 2014
yes.. you were.. you tried to stir something.. and now i give you my point and now i'm offending somebody..as if "sam" is not bias too.. anything that involved her beloved julia she will go on defensive.. so please.. :rolleye:
Maybe...
Because world cup is near and my pain about 2002 summer hasn't been eased, I supposed. :rolleye:. I am Spain and Italy's fan.
After that world cup, I have become Germans' fan, too. How strong they were to go against all odds, especially with their team leaders' photos were hanging around the stadium like dead people's photos. To gain the final ticket in such situation.
I resent that judging but not the people.
But I guess that's it. Football fans have always been aggressive.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
Ven did claim Sochi was the worst scandal in all of sports which made the comparison of any sport fair game. Yuna getting a silver is controversial yes...but the biggest scandal in all of sports? Is it really even the biggest in FS history.

As for fair...I will acknowledge Yulia's weaknesses and have said here today and many other times her 3lz-3t was overscored in the FS. Not in the SP. I've said her SS are her weakest part of her game and that too gets generous scores. What I don't like is false claims of over scoring on her elements that she deserved good scores for. How is that not fair?
 

cooper

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Maybe...
Because world cup is near and my pain about 2002 summer hasn't been eased, I supposed. :rolleye:. I am Spain and Italy's fan.
After that world cup, I have become Germans' fan, too. How strong they were to go against all odds, especially with their team leaders' photos were hanging around the stadium like dead people's photos. To gain the final ticket in such situation.
I resent that judging but not the people.
But I guess that's it. Football fans have always been aggressive.

well basketball is my second favorite sport.. so i give you another moment in history that there was blatant cheating that involved the russians..
 

Meoima

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Joined
Feb 13, 2014
well basketball is my second favorite sport.. so i give you another moment in history that there was blatant cheating that involved the russians..
Read this part then I will not repeat again:

Ven did claim Sochi was the worst scandal in all of sports which made the comparison of any sport fair game. Yuna getting a silver is controversial yes...but the biggest scandal in all of sports? Is it really even the biggest in FS history.
That's also my point. If people want the worst scandal in all sports then undoubtedly I would chose the most popular sport, not figure skating. And it's football. And the scandal in 2002 against 4 teams was more than just big enough for millions and millions of football fans all over the world to forget that easily.

If Ven said it's the biggest scandal in figure skating, then I would have no problem with it. But it's definitely not the biggest fraud in all sports up to date.

Ask Italia, Spain and Portugal football team and they will scream otherwise.
 

cooper

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Read this part then I will not repeat again:


That's also my point. If people want the worst scandal in sport then undoubtedly I would chose the most popular sport, not figure skating. And it's football. And the scandal in 2002 against 4 teams was more than just big enough for football fans to forget that easily.

If Ven said it's the biggest scandal in figure skating, then I would have no problem with it.

you made your point.. i also made my point..

if ven claimed that sochi was the worst scandal in history then that's his prerogative.. you made your point by claiming that sochi was not and that the scandal in 2002 was the worst.. now, i made my point that the 1972 basketballl ogm game was one of the worst.. and the russians were involved.. and again they never admitted that they cheated...
 

nguyenghita

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Come on, no need to exaggerate. This is not the worst scandal in sport history but one of the worst scandal in FS history, totally different. I'm fine with that :popcorn:
 

Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Come on, no need to exaggerate. This is not the worst scandal in sport history one of the worst scandal in FS history, totally different. I'm fine with that :popcorn:
Yup, in all sport history and in FS history is totally different.

If it's doping then Lance Armstrong won this round.
If it's atrocious refereeing then I have to say WC 2002 trumped them all.

If you are talking about FS only then I'm not against it.

Frankly even if I enjoy watching figure skating very much I have to say it's football that gets the most attention from the whole world. So yup, scandals in football are often the biggest, since they don't just involve one single individual but the whole team, coaches, referees, managers, and FIFA system.

And while politics plays a large role in Olympics, it hardly plays that much role in World Cup. Brazil, Italia, Spain are not the richest countries in the world, but they have the strongest teams, especially Brazil. So when scandals happen in World Cup, it has more to do with unfairplay and dirty tricks than political reason. It's impossible to cover a bad refereeing in World Cup.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I should caveat my comment with non-doping examples. I guess the ICU covering up for Lance Armstrong probably takes the cake, but the extent of that still isn't known. Either way that was disgraceful.

But bad calls? They happen. There's a thing called 'variance' and it's present in all sports, more in some than others. There's a little bit of luck involved, and competitors need to thoroughly outplay their opponents so they don't have to worry about luck and bad calls. If you completely dominate the other team, then what does it matter if one or two bad calls go against you? If you are 20 strokes better than another golfer, then one unlucky bounce won't decide the outcome.

But when the match is close, luck can sometimes decide things. Two golfers separated by a stroke hit their ball in the same area on the last hole, one ball bounces left into the water or comes to rest in a divot, the other bounces right in perfect shape and that golfer goes on to win. Two football teams are neck and neck in a close match at the end of the game, and one call seems to be questionable. Well, it's one call out of hundreds in the game, perfection can't be expected, and unless one can prove intent behind the bad call, not much can be done. Sometimes variance plays a factor.

But in this case one can look back and see that Kim and Sotnikova were not even close to each other. It took the technical panel calling basically everything wrong, and the judges meteorically increasing her PCS and GOEs overnight, for her to come from "inferior" territory to "superior or equal" territory. The fact the scoring was done incorrectly and systematically in all areas indicates a willful conspiracy to fix the results, no matter what the skaters did on the ice.

I thoroughly agree. While I think Kostner should have won, and then Kim, then Sotnikova, I think the most grievous thing was Sotnikova won by a fairly considerable margin of 5 points. If she won, it should have been by the skin of her teeth, and not so definitively. There's always a huge amount of skepticism that comes with winning on home court, regardless of sport. I wonder if Sotnikova had the same result outside of Russia (and she probably wouldn't have) if people would have given her more of a break.
 

sk8in

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 15, 2014
I think you can make a case for Kostner coming in first in the short program, but how do you give OGM to a skater who doesn't do a triple-triple in the long? Maybe Ashley Wagner should have gotten the bronze medal.
 
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