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Thread: Shocking news - proposal to eliminate short programs

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by louisa05 View Post
    I don't think this is a distraction technique
    On the contrary, it is. Typical technique of tyrants. When the masses are unhappy and rioting about one thing, politicians like to start wars elsewhere to distract them from the real problems.

    In the case of figure skating, the #1 problem is the corruption throughout the ISU itself.

    For all of the reasons why figure skating is in a state of decline, they all trace back to the fraudulence of the "competitions". People in general simply have no interest in watching rigged results that don't match what they see with their own eyes. These rigged contests are not fair sport. Even worse, the cheating and politicking is so ubiquitous throughout the ISU, federations, judges and coaches, that none of them are willing to make changes, lest they all be banned from the sport. Most likely they are all guilty of rigging results in the past or present ... who are they to point fingers or ask for change?

    -----

    The only way figure skating will ever be popular again would be if the ISU were eliminated as the sanctioning body, and all of the higher level people were purged and banned for life. With further controls put in place to prevent such ubiquitous cheating in the future. Either that, or the ISU were to be so over-hauled that it would effect the same result.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightSkater View Post
    Exactly. It's always so interesting to see a skater skate to two such different programs. It shows what they can really do.
    We also often see more variety in music and choreo in the short program. The "standards" are used more for long programs. So I think we'd see even less innovation in music without the SP. As you say, they are able to show their interpretation ability when they use very different pieces like Caro did this year. And I would think skaters might get pretty bored only training one program all season.

  3. #108
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    If Speedy is looking to save time in sports events, maybe he should turn his attention to cricket.

    According to Wikipedia, first-class cricket matches are played over 3-5 days. Play goes on for @ least 6 hours each day. If it's a 1-day match, it can go over 6 hours. There are special rules re: breaks for lunch, tea and drinks; also rules for when play starts and ends. (Google is my friend -- I knew cricket matches were long but had no idea how long!)

    After he sorts that out, how about a sit-down w/ the NCAA re: March Madness? And FIFA may be looking for help cutting costs for the World Cup...

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatedreamer View Post
    If Speedy is looking to save time in sports events, maybe he should turn his attention to cricket.

    According to Wikipedia, first-class cricket matches are played over 3-5 days. Play goes on for @ least 6 hours each day. If it's a 1-day match, it can go over 6 hours. There are special rules re: breaks for lunch, tea and drinks; also rules for when play starts and ends.

    After he sorts that out, how about a sit-down w/ the NCAA re: March Madness? And FIFA may be looking for help cutting costs for the World Cup...
    HUSH don't give him any ideas!! I am slaying my office bracket so far this year... I am amazingly the only person with all their teams in the final 8 still standing!

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    HUSH don't give him any ideas!! I am slaying my office bracket so far this year... I am amazingly the only person with all their teams in the final 8 still standing!
    Good for you! And if you make it to the end, maybe you can use part of Buffet's billion to buy out the ISU & give it a make-over?

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    On the contrary, it is. Typical technique of tyrants. When the masses are unhappy and rioting about one thing, politicians like to start wars elsewhere to distract them from the real problems.

    In the case of figure skating, the #1 problem is the corruption throughout the ISU itself.

    For all of the reasons why figure skating is in a state of decline, they all trace back to the fraudulence of the "competitions". People in general simply have no interest in watching rigged results that don't match what they see with their own eyes. These rigged contests are not fair sport. Even worse, the cheating and politicking is so ubiquitous throughout the ISU, federations, judges and coaches, that none of them are willing to make changes, lest they all be banned from the sport. Most likely they are all guilty of rigging results in the past or present ... who are they to point fingers or ask for change?

    -----

    The only way figure skating will ever be popular again would be if the ISU were eliminated as the sanctioning body, and all of the higher level people were purged and banned for life. With further controls put in place to prevent such ubiquitous cheating in the future. Either that, or the ISU were to be so over-hauled that it would effect the same result.
    Eh...hate to pull the historian card, but you over simplify the tyrant comparison. That is neither here nor there, though. The actual error in your thesis is not that you over simplify the historical behavior of tyrannical governments. The error is that you think $peedy is smart enough to play a game like that. I don't think he is. Even more so, he already made quite clear that he did not see a problem with the judging in Sochi, that he thinks conflicts of interest between judges, skaters and federations are just fine, and that there is not going to be any investigation of anything. Thus, he would not see a need for a distraction. He has already shown that he has no problem dismissing any concerns from fans, skaters, coaches, or federations regarding the Olympics.

    What we do know about him, without a doubt, is that he enjoys his power. Enough that he wanted rules bent to keep it. He loves the idea of walking away in two years with the ability to say that he "changed" both sports forever. And he is foolish enough to value change for its own sake.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by louisa05 View Post
    And team sports like hockey, football, baseball and basketball need whole seasons to determine who plays for their championships. Fans manage to pay attention. Even a lot of casual ones. Additionally, baseball, basketball and hockey do not have one game determine their champions but have a series of games so that the championships are week long events (five days at its shortest for baseball--I don't know the travel days/scheduling patterns for the other two so can't say). College basketball has nearly a month long tournament to determine its championship and I know plenty of people who watch as much as they can. Or what about tennis--again, a week long tournament or more to determine a champion at any given event with multiple matches and people watch. Fans are not walking away from skating for lack of an attention span. Sports fans in general do not lack that. You are arguing to fix a problem that is not the problem. As is Cinquanta.
    Figure skating is an amateur individual sport. You can't compare it with (professional) team sports in the first place. They can't do competitions every week over 8 months period. Above all they are not the "Olympic" sports. The "champions" are decided at one most important competition. And figure skating is a minor sport. It can't expect to take too much interests (time) from ordinary people. Expanding the casual fan base (who watch FS several times in one year) should be the #1 priority.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Figure skating is an amateur individual sport. You can't compare it with (professional) team sports in the first place. They can't do competitions every week over 8 months period. Above all they are not the "Olympic" sports. The "champions" are decided at one most important competition. ANd figure skating is a minor sport. It can't expect to take too much interests (time) from ordinary people.
    Aren't hockey, football or basketball Olympics sports? Maybe turn FS into the weekly competitions to collect the score might be the right kind of MODERN change.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by BusyMom View Post
    Aren't hockey, football or basketball Olympics sports? Maybe turn FS into the weekly competitions to collect the score might be the right kind of MODERN change.
    Of course not. FIFA World Cup is the most important thing for football and so-called World series is for baseball.

  10. #115
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    Speedy wouldn't see the need to distract because he doesn't see any problem. He doesn't care what fans/"masses" think (obviously), and can just ignore the South Korean's letter. It's not like a response is required. He is in a better position than a tyrant because he really doesn't have to answer to anyone. It's not like the few diehard figure skating fans are going to overthrow him and the federations don't want to rock the boat. The rebellion back in 2002 was easily put down when no federation would go along with it..

    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    On the contrary, it is. Typical technique of tyrants. When the masses are unhappy and rioting about one thing, politicians like to start wars elsewhere to distract them from the real problems.

    In the case of figure skating, the #1 problem is the corruption throughout the ISU itself.

    For all of the reasons why figure skating is in a state of decline, they all trace back to the fraudulence of the "competitions". People in general simply have no interest in watching rigged results that don't match what they see with their own eyes. These rigged contests are not fair sport. Even worse, the cheating and politicking is so ubiquitous throughout the ISU, federations, judges and coaches, that none of them are willing to make changes, lest they all be banned from the sport. Most likely they are all guilty of rigging results in the past or present ... who are they to point fingers or ask for change?

    -----

    The only way figure skating will ever be popular again would be if the ISU were eliminated as the sanctioning body, and all of the higher level people were purged and banned for life. With further controls put in place to prevent such ubiquitous cheating in the future. Either that, or the ISU were to be so over-hauled that it would effect the same result.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Of course not. FIFA World Cup is the most important thing for football and so-called World series is for baseball.
    What??? are you kidding me? football is in the summer Olympic as well as hockey. You are clearly not a football fan. World cup is the most important event to FIFA. For football fan it is the football leagues (and champion leagues of course)hand down. World cup is excited for once in every four years. But the thrill is when you get to see your team play every weekend. I'm a big Liverpool fan BTW, even after 20 years of disappointment result.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Of course not. FIFA World Cup is the most important thing for football and so-called World series is for baseball.
    Ah...but several team sports are decided in long championship tournaments or series on the college level in the USA and those are not professional competitions. Many of those sports are also Olympic sports in their own right.

    And it has already been pointed out multiple times in this discussion that many, many Olympic sports--individual, amateur competitions just like skating--are decided with multiple runs or heats (skiing, bobsled, luge, snowboarding, track and field events. diving, speed skating) or multiple components to the competition (gymnastics). And for one that has not been mentioned--synchro swimming has technical and free routines in the Olympics.

    Your argument does not hold up at all. If the problem were fans lacking an attention span for long competitions or champions being determined over the course of more than one event, match, or day, very few sports would not be in the same trouble that skating is in--whether we are talking about professional, amateur, Olympic, or just high school sports, it is the very nature of all of them that it takes longer than 20 minutes to crown a champion.

  13. #118
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    On a different note, wouldn't eliminating the short take something away from Cinquanta's own baby--the team event? Or would he want to have two long programs in each discipline for that?

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post

    The only way figure skating will ever be popular again would be if the ISU were eliminated as the sanctioning body, and all of the higher level people were purged and banned for life. With further controls put in place to prevent such ubiquitous cheating in the future. Either that, or the ISU were to be so over-hauled that it would effect the same result.

    Rather, sensors in skates will become mass production. I'm serious!

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by louisa05 View Post
    1--The U.S. is not the world. So the issue of broadcasting has to be looked at in broader terms. Other countries have broadcasters airing whole competitions and the ISU would find out that they are not going to pay the same for less content.

    2--The free skate is never going to be a free program again under IJS. If skaters have to accumulate points, then they will all do the same high level content to gain the most points. You can have IJS or a free skate. Not both.
    Of course the free program won't be free under IJS. That's the whole point! Bring back the free program and make the short program the technical program and change the scoring system to allow this. And I'm sorry for using the offensive (to some) example of the US. It wouldn't matter to Speedy if broadcast revenues were less if there were net savings from shortening the competitions. I'm sure he has it all worked out in his little bean-counter mind.

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