Elena Ilinykh & Nikita Katsalapov Split

OrdinaryDreamer said:

Also, for everyone commenting about Elena's weight, it's been said before that Nikita has had trouble with lifts, and I've read somewhere that he has had some sort of back injury, which surely doesn't help with lifting anyone, no matter what their weight. It's not necessarily Elena's fault, so don't blame her for factors beyond her personal control.

Click to expand...

Yes, he was off training for around 6 weeks in the summer of 2010 due to his back problems - that was part of what lead Tarasova to criticise them for being lazy, because she seemed to think they should have been training through his injuries . I think there was a problem before the 2012-13 season as well. If you see Elena in person, you realise that she is absolutely tiny. Look at the pictures from the banquet at Worlds, you can even see her ribs.

uhh said:

Yes, he was off training for around 6 weeks in the summer of 2010 due to his back problems - that was part of what lead Tarasova to criticise them for being lazy, because she seemed to think they should have been training through his injuries . I think there was a problem before the 2012-13 season as well. If you see Elena in person, you realise that she is absolutely tiny. Look at the pictures from the banquet at Worlds, you can even see her ribs.

Click to expand...

Exactly! The comments about her weight are simply ludicrous. She is tiny! So if he can't lift her, then I agree that it's a him problem not a her problem...and the problem is likely to persist with anyone else he teams up with.

snowflakebeautiful said:

Exactly! The comments about her weight are simply ludicrous. She is tiny! So if he can't lift her, then I agree that it's a him problem not a her problem...and the problem is likely to persist with anyone else he teams up with.

Click to expand...

Yeah, let's see how he lift Victoria from now on, I doubt that they would ever make a decent program like when he was with Lena. What a douchebag! I can't even image Lena lose weight because she is so thin now, it's like they expect Hanyu to lose weight.

cebi26 said:

Not only Elena was dumped by Nikita, doesn't now her future in skating but also now is beeing called fat? :no:

Click to expand...

Yeah. I mean even if she had weight problem, this isn't the right time to talk about. I think Averbukh was wrong on his comment and timing. It's not because of the weight that Nikita left her.

In all seriousness, for the sake of his health and his reputation, maybe Nikita should just retire. It's unlikely he'll ever receive the same kind of support as when he skated with Elena from the skating community again. Plus, you don't want to mess around with back injuries. If his back has been injured that badly before, he shouldn't be lifting anyone, regardless of what they weigh. Continuing to lift other ice dancers not only puts his health in danger, but that of whomever he's lifting, should his back give out on him and make it impossible for him to carry someone. Nobody should have to worry that their partner might suddenly drop them or fall without warning because of a preexisting health issue. And, you know, he wouldn't have to take crap from people about skating with someone else if he retired because of his back pain problems. Even the Federation wouldn't be able to blame him for that. Who knows, they might even be relieved not to have to deal with this whole messy situation anymore.

Alba said:

I'm not saying these new couples wouldn't work. What I'm saying is that it will take time and they lost their chance to dominate.
C&B are working together since 2011 and they have a good tech coach now like Igor. I can see them being established on the top with the Canadians. This is not the case with the new russians.

Click to expand...

You are aware of the fact that I/k didn't medal at NHK 2013 right?

I don't know who was worst, Nikita saying to Elena in a medical examination something like "Thanks for everything, but now you are on your own" or Victoria grabbing her stuff off the rink and "Thanks Ruslam, but i'm going with Nikita now, bye!" And of course the cherry of the cake is Morozov as coach. A dream team indeed

cebi26 said:

I don't know who was worst, Nikita saying to Elena in a medical examination something like "Thanks for everything, but now you are on your own" or Victoria grabbing her stuff off the rink and "Thanks Ruslam, but i'm going with Nikita now, bye!" And of course the cherry of the cake is Morozov as coach. A dream team indeed

Click to expand...

These 3 truly deserve each other. I hope Lena will find a better partner and medal more than Nikita could ever do.:sarcasm:

Meoima said:

Yeah, let's see how he lift Victoria from now on, I doubt that they would ever make a decent program like when he was with Lena. What a douchebag! I can't even image Lena lose weight because she is so thin now, it's like they expect Hanyu to lose weight.

Click to expand...

ITA....Elena looks so thin. Oh gosh...

elif said:

WOW. This is a big improvement for you sisinka. Small criticism for Bobrova. Now you can write pages and pages about Elena Iliynkh's poor posture and I'm not going to say anything about it

Click to expand...

Not precise as always Elif, I wrote pages and pages to explain people who have your way of thinking why I criticise Ilinykh or anybody else. From all fans on the whole world - only few of I&K fans are those who attack me. I wrote some criticism about other couples as well, but their fans let it free and let everybody (me including) to have their opinions. But not you and you similar. Pages and pages are for explaining why I am not hater but somebody who wants to see dancers DANCE and HAVE GREAT EXECUTION!!! Will you forgive me these wishes?

Do you want it, really?
What should I criticise on Bobrova except posture? Any idea? Costuming? But girl is not doing her costumes on her own like Swan costumes were not made by Lena. What else do you want to criticise?
Comparison: Ilinykh, Bobrova, Domnina, Virtue
Keeping the rhythm:
…Ilinykh - not good, sometimes completely missing
…Bobrova – very good
…Domnina and Virtue – excellent
Deep edges:
…all four excellent
Knee‘s action:
…Bobrova – very good, but not always
…Ilinykh, Domnina, Virtue – excellent
Speed:
…Bobrova, Ilinykh – great
…Virtue – very good
…Domina – last two seasons not so fast
Extended free leg:
…Domina, Virtue, Bobrova – excellent
….Ilinykh – poor
Finished movements:
…Ilinykh – not good
…Domnina, Virtue, Bobrova – great
Expressing changements in music:
…Domnina – perfect
…Virtue, Bobrova – great
…Ilinykh – lack of dynamic moves
Twizzles:
…Ilinykh, Virtue – perfect
…Domnina – very good
…Bobrova – often in troubles last two seasons
Lifts:
…Virtue – great
…Domnina – very good
…Bobrova – very good
…Ilinykh – poor
Variations in style:
…Domnina, Virtue, Bobrova – great
…Ilinykh – poor
Explaining the music/story in programs:
…Domnina, Virtue, Bobrova – great
…Ilinykh – not good
Dancing with whole bod:
…Domnina – perfect
…Virtue – great
…Bobrova – very well
…Ilinykh – quite good
Difficult and demanding choreography:
…Domnina – until Maxim’s injury one of the most difficult
…Virtue – very difficult
…Bobrova – very difficult
…Ilinykh – so easy with almost no transitions

Can you simply understand that Ilinykh has some skills (especially skating skills, twizzles) where she is gorgeous but lacks some other skills, which are necessary for GREAT DANCER ON THE TOP? Can you catch it? I am not trying to shoot the girl from the planet like you try to shoot me, I am waiting (quite impatiently) that a girl who has European medals and two Olympic medals will simply learn it…if not with Nikita, than with somebody else. What is your problem to attack me? If you and your friends would allow everybody to write his note, my posts would be much shorter, because I wouldn’t be irritated with your approach. I once again repeat – love Lena or Nikita as much as you want, and love Bukin if you want to…but don’t try to persuade everybody that the couple is/was perfect…they were not, they were great in some things and they had lack of some other things….unfortunately for them they lacked things which I found essential for dancers. If Chan, Takahashi, Ten and many other men are able to keep the rhythm and have great postures and they are able to express even dynamic music and different sort of music, how the hell you explain me that the DANCERS called Ilinykh and Katsalapov are not able to do that??? Top 6 in men cathegory can overdance dancers who are in top 4?...and I should be satisfied that Lena has deep edges, great costumes and they are so beautiful on the ice and thanks God this time they didn’t fall?

I am not a fan of splitting those couples, but it will have some positives (some was already mentioned by Bramweld). Both Lena and Nikita will have a chance to improve in dancing and we will see if they will be able to reach another level in ice dance working with somebody else who doesn’t have such issues mentioned above. Like Bramweld mentioned many times, Lena (and other ones also) are very young, so they have many years for improvements, no?

^ Cheers for detailed and interesting post(s), sisinka! :agree:

Alba said:

Indeed TAT is so right to be MAD. I'm really sorry to say this but the Russians have lost their chance to dominate this quad, so good news for the Canada and USA.
I agree with Sinitsyn when he says "It will be hard for both pairs to get to the top - they will have to start from the lowest groups in the international competitions, where every small mistake is costly."

Click to expand...

Right now without any mention about talent (they are all talented):
I&K started form lowest groups in 2010/11, but Russian Federation always supported them so much, that it took them two years to get European Medal (after poor short dance). In 2012/13 judges wanted them to win European Champs. This season they had open way to win both Europeans and World Champs.
Chock & Bates were suppported with their US Federation as well and they were in top 10 at first World Champs, this season they finished in fifth place.
Sinitsina & Zhiganshin with no support from Federation and with Tarasova talking bad about them finished on 4 a 7 place at their first European and World Champs (but with 2 top couples at European Champs and 3 top couples at World Champs out).
Everything is possible, but support of Russian Federation and at least one top couple out will be needed.

The question is which part of I&K will be supported more by Russian Federation? And of course, who will be prefered by judges?

Alba said:

About the lifts anyone. This is a very good video which explains that lifts are about technique.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTrPv_ogUtg&list=FLPGh5KChrN4x6skWVQGedNg&index=5

Click to expand...

Good video. But it is not skating skills what is making great lifter from you, it is lift habits - technique of lifts...like they say - they have to contract back muscle...two people become one object with centre of gravity...yes, very nice description.

Alba said:

The Shibs are brother and sister. It's totally different story because they need right programs. I&Z don't have that problem.
I do agree with you about Ruslan look, but then again Charlie White had the same look and he became WC and OGM.

Click to expand...

I would add Gwendal Peizerat also.
Simply all men with quite tender lineaments in face look young for longer time while those with big lineaments in face look older and 100% grown-up sooner.

But Ruslan definitely looks younger than Nikita and he also looks younger than Lena when she has make-up on. But this is her style - she mainly uses make-up which makes her older and totally grown-up looking, with some more smooth and tender make-up she would look at her age.

Seeing both couples at Russian Nationals 2014, I didn't have an idea that Lena is Ruslan's older sister, but looking at most of her photos she looks older than he right now.
Russian Nationals 2014 medal ceremony:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi6xTSwvlv8&feature=player_detailpage#t=1701

But time passes quite fast and both Ruslan, Nikita, Ivan, Kirill are in age when their faces are still going to change into more manful way. Just remember how much Nikita's face changed from 2010/11 season into 2011/12 season:

Just for fun compare how can two ladies change with different make-up (they are both beauties by the way):


...if Viki or Lena want, they can change make-up and look like grown-up or innocent girl or tender lady or vamp...it is all in their hand...and in their make-up style.

Meoima said:

These 3 truly deserve each other. I hope Lena will find a better partner and medal more than Nikita could ever do.:sarcasm:

Click to expand...

Totally agree :agree:

In fact, Ilinykh may be too thin for lifts, or not enough muscle toned.

This from Tanith Belbin is on point. She found gaining a few pounds made it easier for Ben (who had chronic back problems all his career) to lift her. Tanith is near in size to Ben, BTW.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/17/sports/olympics/17icedancers.html?_r=0

Belbin began reading books about nutrition and eating lunch at the rink. She learned to eat foods that would best sustain an athlete’s body.

She also began training harder off the ice, lifting weights, doing push-ups and participating in Karponosov’s boot camps, which involve hard-core skating drills to strengthen the legs.

Karponosov’s skaters would often complain that his drills made their legs so muscular that they could no longer fit into their jeans.

“I was always like, there will never be a day when I can’t fit into my jeans,” Belbin said. “But this past summer, I came to him and said my jeans are so tight. I never thought I’d see that change in my body. It really, really made a difference. It feels good, though.”

Belbin began marveling at her new body. She had gained 10 pounds. Her waist size increased two inches because her core was so much stronger.

Agosto could see a huge difference in Belbin’s skating. During lifts, she was no longer a sack of potatoes, holding on for dear life. She could hold her positions much better, and that made it easier for Agosto because she did not move around as much.

Click to expand...

Perhaps North American female dancers train arm strength and core strength harder than Elena and perhaps some other Russian dance ladies accounts for some of the lift problems we see from those teams?

If there is a fault here, it is in the coaching, BTW, not the skaters'.

dorispulaski said:

Perhaps North American female dancers train arm strength and core strength harder than Elena and perhaps some other Russian dance ladies accounts for some of the lift problems we see from those teams?

Click to expand...

Really? Would you like every female skater to look like Duhamel?

No, I don't care how they look. I care about how they skate and interact with music, and each other. (Duhamel is not the most musical skater I ever saw.)

I am happy if they look like Virtue, or Belbin, or Davis, all of whom worked their upper body a lot- fit and toned.

They can even look like Marissa Castelli or Aliona Savchenko. for that matter.

What I don't want them to look like is a limp sack of potatoes while being lifted, mainly because it isn't pretty, isn't smooth, and is hard on the guy. Which is how Belbin looked when she was too thin.

Pechalat is another one who obviously had A LOT of strength. Some of their lifts were pretty amazing. I will miss them.

I don't understand people who disapprove female athletes for looking too athletic, as if that somehow negates their femaleness or something.

gmyers said:

You are aware of the fact that I/k didn't medal at NHK 2013 right?

Click to expand...

Yes, so? I don't understand what's your point?