Elena Ilinykh & Nikita Katsalapov Split | Page 94 | Golden Skate

Elena Ilinykh & Nikita Katsalapov Split

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Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
I wrote: Ruslan was a leader in a couple like Nikita...

You missed the point. I was talking about choreography.
Nikita is a leader, I never put this in question, I wrote that he never played the main role in Morozov’s programs. That is different. Even under Zhulin Schindler’s List was quite equal, but at the end it went to Lena, she was the one who made final point and put herself in spotlight when she was shoot to death. Ballet Don Quijote was made in way you, Alba, decribed, a ballet dancer - man presenting his ballerina. But under Morozov? Where he was the main person? Where he presented his character in the main role. Yes, a man have to present his lady, which Nikita is very very good and detailed in, but in a moment when a man plays the main role, he also presents him part of story like the main character. For example Spartacus by Domnina & Shabalin, a program where Spartacus was the main, and Shabalin was the main character there plus he presented his lady. He was the one where choreography was turned to him. The same with Zhiganshin and Phantom of the Opera. Platov in Arabian dance. It doesn’t mean that lady should be forgotten, no way, the the choreohraphy is turned to man, a lady is working on him as well. Where do you see Lena presenting Nikita like the main character? Nowhere. She is the main in Ave Maria playing the angel and Nikita is presenting her. She is the main in Ghost story and Nikita is her partner. And she is the main in Swan Lake and Nikita presents her. She is always standing in the middle of the ice and posing for judges and Nikita is skating around her and rising his arms to her – this is not about him, but about her. That is choreographic idea. Morozov presented a Diva, Nikita presented a Diva, shich means that Nikita never played a main role in all programs, no matter that he is a leader and lead her lady throught steps.

Paso Doble is about passion, Nikita is dynamic, not passionate, Paso Doble is about a man who is the main in this dance and lady accompanies him, so no real Diva here, the man is the main...Nikita is not used that all choreography is about him mainly....that is what I wrote about. Look at Paso Doble of Domnina & Shabalin, Belbin & Agosto, Virtue & Moir...the man was the main...and all of these men are naturally passionate, while Nikita will have to learn to be passionate dancer.

Sisinka, please try to be more concise. It's difficult to reply to long comments. :)

If it's about choreo, it's a different matter. That's the choreo.'s job, but in no way Nikita looked the servent of Elena when skating together. Shabalin might have been the main character but tbh I was always looking at Domnina myself. With Platov was even more clear to me who was wearing the pants in that couple.;) I thought you were talking about image, interpretation.

Nikita might not be passionate to you but I think differently. We might have a different view of what passion is. I don't know.

Krylova, Annisina, Navka, Domnina – an examples of passionate dancers.
If you look at passionate dance – Latin Dance which was in 2011/12 season like SD, you will see that Lena is sexy and smooth but not passionate, the final fast part is too fast for her and smooth moves are not enought. Nikita is more dynamic, but it was not passionate as well. The same with Tango part in 2010/11 SD, Nikita’s moves are more dynamic and Lena’s more smooth….this is not passion, where you have to keep tension in whole body plus movement must be still fast – watch Domnina & Shabalin’s Tango, Navka’s Carmen, also Weaver’s movements in Tango FD were passionate, but not Lena’s movements.
Also this season I&K's programs are smooth in moves but not passionate. Facial expression is passionate, but this is not dancing.

What can I say? I totally disagree. That's not the way I see or feel her when she dances.

Victoria is not passionate as well, she is more cold in facial expression (which I personally don’t mind because I always mainly watch movements and dancing).

Dancing is not only about that, it's not just a mechanic thing. Otherwise it's just gymnastics.
I think her facial expression here is as much important, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T2UeKKac-s

Russia and Russian World – it is all about a men, men and men…with one exception…Tarasova. But the man is always plaing the main role and have the biggest and the lastest world. In this world which is fully about a men 18 years old Sinitsina comes and manipulates 1) Nikita to skate with her, 2) Morozov to train them, 3) Zueva to train them in case that Morozov will not be allowed, 4) Russian Federation (all men there) to allow her to split two of three best Russian couples, 5) and she also manipulates Lena to say that it was all Nikita’s idea…sorry, this is so fantastic idea that I don’t believe it

Yes I agree. It's a fantastic idea and I don't belive it too. There is a small problem though. This is not what I suggested, so what are you talking about? This is not about manipulation. To want to skate with your partner in life as well, which happens to be one of the best as well it's very normal. She is a strong skater to, so why do you call it a manipulation? If I was her I would do that in a bit. Ilia left her partner and went to skate with her partner in life and she was a much weaker skater. There are other examples like that. Nothing wrong with that tbh. In fact, if that's the reason I can understand him and her very well. Unless of course Nikita couldn't stand Elena anymore and I would understand him in that case as well. Although I disagree with his methods.


Like many coaches and skaters noted, they are one big family. Partners in dance couples know everything about themselves. They know even very personal things about themselves, because you simply can’t avoid knowing it spending so much time together. If a partner has relationship, his ice girl is one of first to know, so if there was a relationship between Nikita and some girl, Lena would be the first to know sooner or later even in moment when would Nikita tried to hide it. And if that girl would be a skater, Lena would know it from other skaters in few days after a relationship was started.

Who said she doesn't know? Maybe she knows that but she didn't want to spea about that.

If Lena told: “His possible personal relations…“ it means she didn’t know about relationship with Viki or any other girl…which is strange, like his ice partner, she would know for sure if there would be some relationship.

It was not Elena who said that but Vaytsekhovskaya. I was analysing Vaytsekhovskaya words not Elena's.


Somebody also saw Lena and Nikita kissing in backstage around or after the Olympics, it would be hardly possible to do than having relationship with anyone else, no?

OMG I don't belive this. What do you mean she kissed? What kind of kiss? She kissed Nikita and she kissed Morozov as well, anyone else? What are you suggesting, that she was having a relationship with Nikita or that she was spleeping with both of them?:rolleye:

There is also a video where Nikita takes some older showbusiness star into a car in late night from some of the parties after the Olympics, well, we are all adult ones (I hope), so we are not going to play this “he was just taking her home and they talked only“ game.

I really don't know, I was not following them. I don't think that everywoman which goes into his car sleep with him though, if that's what you are asking me.

Would he do it having a relationship?

Mmmmh yes. :popcorn: I've seen people doing worse being in a relationship, and I think we both live on this planet to know that.


There is not even one picture with Viki together (because forum members would post it for sure), even now, when all people discuss their possible relationship there is no picture together, even from Viki’s birthday. While Lena and Ruslan are not dating, but Ruslan was invited at Lena’s birthday, they have pictures together from that party, pictures together from gym. Yes, Nikita probably wants to protect him personal life, that is why he posted shirtless picture to let whole world see his body…

That means nothing. They might have their reasons to keep it secret, for the moment. In anycase, I didn't say I'm sure about it.
I said "If she really is in relationship with him", but for the moment I more inclined to belive a source like Vaytsekhovskaya than all our (or other fans) theories here.

As I said, there are two options here based on what Vaytsekhovskaya was saying. a) It was Victoria. or b) it was somebody else.
Who's this somebody else, I don't know. I don't even have a theory at this point.


I think a lot of people think it was Mozorov.

Yes, at the beginning but now I'm not so sure about that. For what purpose? And if what siskina was reporting from some other russian forums is true, that he is still with Elena, can you see that happening? I don't think so.
You know how much I dislike him for his involvement with his student, but the more I read about this the more he looks like the scapegoat.

I know for sure that Zueva was talking about this with other people in Sochi. What she said then happend exactly in april.
I'm not convinced that Morozov is that stupid to tell her everything in such advance. Who knows though, maybe they are such a good friends, but to me is suspicious that they ended up guess with whom? Zueva.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
I was always confused at where people got the idea that they are in a relationship. It was always a question rather than anything confirmed by insiders. And I saw the split like this; Nikita was tired of Elena and fighting with her. He wanted out.

Me too. Until I read Vaytsekhovskaya:
His possible personal relations with the new partner have no interest to me

I'm not inventing theories here. I'm just analysing, as I already said above, her words. She is a reliable journalist and till yesterday she was the bible here. ;)
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
True Abraxis. But looking at this video this could be a blessing in disguise for I/Z and S/K. I really like Ruslan when he gets into a zone like this; he will be no less than Nikita in time. (Lena chose wisely). At which point technique and choreography may just be the deciding factor between the two teams. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlHDnHCEKjY

Zhulin likened them to a pair of tigers in a cage. So personally I'm glad they split. Really getting excited and I do hope both pairs are endorsed :) I have always liked Nikita as a skater but I have a soft spot for I/Z. The suspense is killing me. I wanna see video so bad!!

People let's forget about the personal matters here; because where that is concerned none of us will ever know the full truth. Speculation can be harmful so it might be best if we all discontinue going down that road. I just have a feeling that everything is going to turn out fine for all concerned, or at the very least I hope so.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
The suspense is killing me. I wanna see video so bad!!

we should hack Kustarova's computer. :popcorn:

People let's forget about the personal matters here; because where that is concerned none of us will ever know the full truth. Speculation can be harmful so it might be best if we all discontinue going down that road.

If you are speaking to me I'm sorry but I didn't talk about their personal matters. I made a suggestion, like many here, that one reason might be that they are together. This, based on what a well known journalist wrote in an article which was public. It's not that I dreamed about it and came here to speculate.

In any case, we are all speculating here from more than a month now.;)
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
we should hack Kustarova's computer. :popcorn:



If you are speaking to me I'm sorry but I didn't talk about their personal matters. I made a suggestion, like many here, that one reason might be that they are together. This, based on what a well known journalist wrote in an article which was public. It's not that I dreamed about it and came here to speculate.

In any case, we are all speculating here from more than a month now.;)

True no? LOL. Bring on the dancing. This off-season is gonna be so BAD!! No Alba I was not singling you out. I'm just as guilty as anyone else:biggrin:
 
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
We will also have videos available from the new couples. It will be interesting to watch and follow them. :popcorn:

This!!! :biggrin: I am literally sooooo excited to get the first glimpse of them in videos; and I am always up for some more pictures!!! :popcorn: Bring on the off-season competition (for all of the "judges" here) via videos! ;)
 

uhh

Medalist
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
OMG I don't belive this. What do you mean she kissed? What kind of kiss? She kissed Nikita and she kissed Morozov as well, anyone else? What are you suggesting, that she was having a relationship with Nikita or that she was spleeping with both of them?:rolleye:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kLxILIq4otU I guess they mean this video.

Yes, at the beginning but now I'm not so sure about that. For what purpose? And if what siskina was reporting from some other russian forums is true, that he is still with Elena, can you see that happening? I don't think so.
You know how much I dislike him for his involvement with his student, but the more I read about this the more he looks like the scapegoat.

Morozov isn't still with Elena. They split up months ago, she has a new boyfriend in Moscow, he was in the pictures from her birthday. As for how far he was involved in all this - maybe the idea didn't come from him initially, but he definitely knew about it & according to Vaytsekhovskaya he was the one who persuaded Victoria to skip the Olympic Champions tour in order to start working with Nikita. So I don't see him as just an innocent person who has been made into a scapegoat - part of his job as their coach is to make sure the team is happy & try to solve any problems that arise, not set one of them up with a new partner against the wishes of the Federation! Add to that all the early reports from reputable sources of this said that S/K would be working with him, with no mention of Zoueva, Zoueva was talking at Worlds of how I/K were perfect together & they wouldn't be as good if you split them & had different partners - why would she be talking I/K up like that if she was intending all along to take the new team? And when would she even have had time to do all this plotting? I really really doubt, if she was behind it all, that she would have organised to take S/K without seeing them skate together first, but with her commitments to her other teams and I/K & S/Z being based in Russia how could she have done that, or orchestrated it all from afar?

To me it sounds more like Nikita & Victoria come up with the idea, Morozov goes along with it thinking he would have the new team (and given that Elena had split wwith him, maybe he thought he would lose I/K completely, this way he would have still have a top team), and then when it becomes apparent that the Federation are very against it, he backs out (or maybe they tell him to gtfo..) and then Marina, suddenly seeing a opportunity steps in.
 

elif

Medalist
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
we should hack Kustarova's computer. :popcorn:

:popcorn:

As for why Victoria left, let's face it. She could either be like Rubleva and Schefer, skate with the only partner you've ever had and never make it to the top 10, nevermind medal, or risk everything and skate with the guy everyone is calling the best partner in the world. Whether it was 100% her idea or someone in the federation encouraged her to do it, that was the choice she had.

They already made top 10 at Worlds and Europeans and they did it very fast :confused: If Victoria want more success, she had to work for it. But probably she thought this is more easy way to success :popcorn:
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014

I don't think sisinka meant that, but if that's all than I'm having a laugh. :laugh:

Morozov isn't still with Elena. They split up months ago, she has a new boyfriend in Moscow, he was in the pictures from her birthday.

I had no idea about her new boyfriend but I too had the impression that she left Morozov.


As for how far he was involved in all this - maybe the idea didn't come from him initially, but he definitely knew about it & according to Vaytsekhovskaya he was the one who persuaded Victoria to skip the Olympic Champions tour in order to start working with Nikita. So I don't see him as just an innocent person who has been made into a scapegoat - part of his job as their coach is to make sure the team is happy & try to solve any problems that arise, not set one of them up with a new partner against the wishes of the Federation! Add to that all the early reports from reputable sources of this said that S/K would be working with him, with no mention of Zoueva, Zoueva was talking at Worlds of how I/K were perfect together & they wouldn't be as good if you split them & had different partners - why would she be talking I/K up like that if she was intending all along to take the new team? And when would she even have had time to do all this plotting? I really really doubt, if she was behind it all, that she would have organised to take S/K without seeing them skate together first, but with her commitments to her other teams and I/K & S/Z being based in Russia how could she have done that, or orchestrated it all from afar?

As I already said in my previous comment, I don't think Zueva wanted to split them.

b) It's somebody else, but I don't think it was Zueva at all. She most probably wanted to coach I&K, that I can see but not separate them.

What I said to tulosai is that Zueva new everything since Sochi. How did she knew and from whom I don't know. I just doubt that Morozov is that stupid to tell anyone in such advance, but he might be. I'm not saying that he is so innocent and good person in all this. I'm saying that I don't think he is the reason or that he orchestrated all this. In this aspect I'm using the scapegoat word.
It's just my opinion though. Just my impression. I might very well be wrong.

To me it sounds more like Nikita & Victoria come up with the idea, Morozov goes along with it thinking he would have the new team (and given that Elena had split wwith him, maybe he thought he would lose I/K completely, this way he would have still have a top team), and then when it becomes apparent that the Federation are very against it, he backs out (or maybe they tell him to gtfo..) and then Marina, suddenly seeing a opportunity steps in.

I think that too, but since Vaytsekhovskaya is saying
and if all that thing was a result of someone else's wish (and I have a reason to believe it was) then even more - Katsalapov who complied holds no interest to me."

than either she is refering to Victoria or to somebody else.
 

sisinka

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Sisinka, please try to be more concise. It's difficult to reply to long comments. :)

Sorry, I am not English native speaker, I am in trouble to explain what I mean in one sentence.

Dancing is not only about that, it's not just a mechanic thing. Otherwise it's just gymnastics.
I think her facial expression here is as much important, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T2UeKKac-s

You catched the point – the ballerina’s both movements and face expressed the story, but in Lena’s and Nikita’s case I saw overacting too often. Plus Lena’s facial expression is very often about sex appeal and seduction mainly to judges – that is good for Cabaret, but not suitable for Ave Maria, Ghost or Swan Lake where a story is about different things. If mimics play bigger role than your movements, then there is something wrong with your dancing. Or if facial expression don’t reflect the story/music, than it is not good also. That was my point to facial expression. Ballerina on the video is totally OK.

Yes I agree. It's a fantastic idea and I don't belive it too. There is a small problem though. This is not what I suggested, so what are you talking about? This is not about manipulation. To want to skate with your partner in life as well, which happens to be one of the best as well it's very normal. She is a strong skater to, so why do you call it a manipulation? If I was her I would do that in a bit. Ilia left her partner and went to skate with her partner in life and she was a much weaker skater. There are other examples like that. Nothing wrong with that tbh. In fact, if that's the reason I can understand him and her very well. Unless of course Nikita couldn't stand Elena anymore and I would understand him in that case as well. Although I disagree with his methods.

If Victoria would be the one who started this (for whatever reasons), then she should be the one who caused all these situations. Because it is not just girl and boy decision. I used word “manipulation“ because all people included in this story fell into unexpected situations which they certainly didn’t imagine before. Morozov was manipulated because he thought that he would coach S&K, but finally on 98% would have nobody. Zueva was manipulated to believe that S&K would be coached by Morozov, but in the same moment somebody gave her an idea that I&K wuld stay together (so she talked about them is such superior way in Vatsekhovskaya’s interview). Zueva is a smart woman, she would never use superlatives for I&K, if she would plan that in one months she will train Nikita with new partner. Nikita was manipulated to believe that it will go easily, now he is angry and suprised that situation is not so positive, people are not liking what he had done, plus no financial support from Federation. Victoria was manipulated to believe that it will be easy, then she is surprised by negative reaction as well. Alexeeva was manipulated to believe that no split is coming (she gave that interview that no split is planned), then some day later Victoria left.

Overall Russian Federation is more supportive to S&K giving them time with Zueva, time to think, no pushes, while they ignore positive comments from head ice dance coach Stifunin, who saw I&Z at practise…another manipulation? And no flexibility from Russian Federation to solve such problems is warning…they should be here to help skaters, which is something what they definitely don’t do right now. While all pair skaters have their new partnerships, Nikita has space to choose, while Lena & Ruslan stay in vacuum and must wait for his decision.

Who said she doesn't know? Maybe she knows that but she didn't want to spea about that.
It was not Elena who said that but Vaytsekhovskaya. I was analysing Vaytsekhovskaya words not Elena's.

Vaitsekhovskaya spoke to all – Kustarova, Alexeeva, Lena, I am sure she talked with Ruslan as well. If there was a love romance between Victoria & Nikita which would lead to a split, nobody from them would have a reason to keep it in secrecy. But Vaitsekhovskaya told “possible“ which means that she didn’t get “yes“ answer from anybody of them.

OMG I don't belive this. What do you mean she kissed? What kind of kiss? She kissed Nikita and she kissed Morozov as well, anyone else? What are you suggesting, that she was having a relationship with Nikita or that she was spleeping with both of them?:rolleye:...

...I really don't know, I was not following them. I don't think that everywoman which goes into his car sleep with him though, if that's what you are asking me.

...Mmmmh yes. :popcorn: I've seen people doing worse being in a relationship, and I think we both live on this planet to know that. c

I gave those examples to show Nikita’s way of life off the ice, which is really far from a man who fell in love so desperately that he was able to come with such catastrophic scenario for Russian Ice Dance because of LOVE. (The video with brother-sister kiss mentioned above is nice and cute, but this is not that moment.)
 

sisinka

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Ilia left her partner and went to skate with her partner in life and she was a much weaker skater. There are other examples like that. Nothing wrong with that tbh. In fact, if that's the reason I can understand him and her very well.

To Ilia Averbukh’s story: I remember memoirs of one of the Ice Dance judges who remembered Annissina & Averbukh together. That person told: “Marina was a fat girl, she was laying on Ilia’s neck and he was pulling her from one corner of the ice surface to another….then they split…then Marina found Peizerat, lost her weight and then she became great“. This gives an idea that Marina in junior years was in a similar situation like young Butyrskaya – Federation and coaches took them like not very perspective. Also in Averbukh’s time it was coaches and Federation who decided who would split. To really believe that it was love which caused that Ilia started to skate with Irina while Marina stayed alone…it would be an interesting fairy tale, but only a fairy tale.
And don’t forget that A&A split in juniors years, while in our case we have two senior couples who already adapted at senior stage. First couple had European and Olympic Medals, second couple just made great senior debut finishing fourth and sevenths at European and World Champs.

I know that Averbukh likes to make a romantic hero from himself…I am not suprised with it, because it is more easy than to admit that he and his coaches kicked off a girl who later became an European, World and Olympic Champion and constantly defeated him at competitions.
 

elif

Medalist
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
To Ilia Averbukh’s story: I remember memoirs of one of the Ice Dance judges who remembered Annissina & Averbukh together. That person told: “Marina was a fat girl, she was laying on Ilia’s neck and he was pulling her from one corner of the ice surface to another

Are you sure this judge talking about Marina Anissina, not Irina Lobacheva :laugh:
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Are you sure this judge talking about Marina Anissina, not Irina Lobacheva :laugh:

It is the kiss of death it would appear in Russian Ice Dancing to have a womanly figure and be significantly more vivacious or more intelligent than your partner. My word :disapp:
 

Abraxis12345

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
:popcorn:



They already made top 10 at Worlds and Europeans and they did it very fast :confused: If Victoria want more success, she had to work for it. But probably she thought this is more easy way to success :popcorn:

I meant what was going through her mind when she tried out with Katsalapov, which happened before worlds, and as rumor had it, before the beginning of the season. S/Z, as mentioned, were not as sure a bet for medals as I/K. And there was the possibility that they'd get passed over for TAT faves Stepanova and Bukin and their own training mates Yanovskaya and Mozgov, who Simonenko is drooling over. Why spend the rest of your career battling for a 3rd spot when there is a potential #1 spot to be had?
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
I meant what was going through her mind when she tried out with Katsalapov, which happened before worlds, and as rumor had it, before the beginning of the season. S/Z, as mentioned, were not as sure a bet for medals as I/K. And there was the possibility that they'd get passed over for TAT faves Stepanova and Bukin and their own training mates Yanovskaya and Mozgov, who Simonenko is drooling over. Why spend the rest of your career battling for a 3rd spot when there is a potential #1 spot to be had?

Hey, if I/K had won the WC public outcry against S/K would have been epic. Nikita couldn't have picked a better day to mess up those twizzles. Talk about perfect timing. Nikita is a shrewd determined man. No matter what your opinion of him this was well played. Curiously no news from Zueva? IMHO, S/K have been endorsed, they most likely will remain in the US till control rentals. But my only question is why is the FED dragging this out so? Is this only for show to appease certain folks?
 
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