Elena Ilinykh & Nikita Katsalapov Split

bramweld said:

Hey, if I/K had won the WC public outcry against S/K would have been epic. Nikita couldn't have picked a better day to mess up those twizzles. Talk about perfect timing. Nikita is a shrewd determined man. No matter what your opinion of him this was well played. Curiously no news from Zueva? IMHO, S/K have been endorsed, they most likely will remain in the US till control rentals. But my only question is why is the FED dragging this out so? Is this only for show to appease certain folks?

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Actually, it's outrageous enough that they came 4th and that close to winning. That twizzle was a huge mess up. It would be like if Hanyu/Machida completely left his quad out and still won.

That being said, that twizzle will continue to haunt Nikita for the rest of his life, and it's rather silly (unless you're being sarcastic) to make it seem like he deliberately messed them up to avoid criticism in a potential future partnership.

sisinka said:

To really believe that it was love which caused that Ilia started to skate with Irina while Marina stayed alone…it would be an interesting fairy tale, but only a fairy tale.

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I belive it was a combination of both.

I know that Averbukh likes to make a romantic hero from himself…I am not suprised with it, because it is more easy than to admit that he and his coaches kicked off a girl who later became an European, World and Olympic Champion and constantly defeated him at competitions

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Well, it might be but for now I have only his words so....

And don’t forget that A&A split in juniors years, while in our case we have two senior couples who already adapted at senior stage. First couple had European and Olympic Medals, second couple just made great senior debut finishing fourth and sevenths at European and World Champs.

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It doesn't matter at all. The mechanism could be the same. It's not like he is going to skate with a bad or mediocre partner either, and being in love could make a person break a winning partnership.

They probably are all approved and the federation is just blustering like they always do. If I/Z had yet to be approved, would kustarova let them go on vacation with the chance the federation demands a look the very day they come back.

If there is one thing I learned in the years I did PR, it's never take anything said by anyone at face value and always read between the lines. I never took Alexeeva's comments the first week of April to mean S/Z are not splitting up. I took it to mean, she doesn't want S/Z to split up and when the impending split happens, she isn't supporting it. Similarily, when the Fed says they don't support the splits, it's really the fed trying to absolve themselves of any fault in the I/K and S/Z splits by saying "we were never for this". Vaitsekhovskaya also believes it's just PR speak by the fed.

Kustarova may be in over her head but Alexeeva was TAT's assistant for many years. She's seen all this before. And IMO, she has done a PR job that would make Richard Edelman proud. She made sure that Elena and Ruslan are seen as the victims. She then has Vaitsekhovskaya watch them and give an objective but promising review. Then the social media pics of Elena and Ruslan being friendly off the ice, to show that they are a team. And the Elena interview was masterful. She managed to trash Katsalapov without saying one bad word about him.

sisinka said:

You catched the point – the ballerina’s both movements and face expressed the story, but in Lena’s and Nikita’s case I saw overacting too often. Plus Lena’s facial expression is very often about sex appeal and seduction mainly to judges – that is good for Cabaret, but not suitable for Ave Maria, Ghost or Swan Lake where a story is about different things. If mimics play bigger role than your movements, then there is something wrong with your dancing. Or if facial expression don’t reflect the story/music, than it is not good also. That was my point to facial expression. Ballerina on the video is totally OK.

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I agree. I said that because I was surprised when you said about Victoria that you didn't mind her facial expression because you see more the body and feet movements.

p.s. Lopatkina or Zaharova as the best Swan?

Overall Russian Federation is more supportive to S&K giving them time with Zueva, time to think, no pushes, while they ignore positive comments from head ice dance coach Stifunin, who saw I&Z at practise…another manipulation? And no flexibility from Russian Federation to solve such problems is warning…they should be here to help skaters, which is something what they definitely don’t do right now. While all pair skaters have their new partnerships, Nikita has space to choose, while Lena & Ruslan stay in vacuum and must wait for his decision.

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I wonder why that is? Maybe Stifunin just said some good words in public but to the Fed he reported something else? Maybe they are not convinced with I&Z after all? I don't know but it's strange....:think:

Vaitsekhovskaya spoke to all – Kustarova, Alexeeva, Lena, I am sure she talked with Ruslan as well. If there was a love romance between Victoria & Nikita which would lead to a split, nobody from them would have a reason to keep it in secrecy. But Vaitsekhovskaya told “possible“ which means that she didn’t get “yes“ answer from anybody of them.

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I don't know. I'm speculating or analysing her words, I'm not sure about nothing at this point.
As for Vaitsekhovskaya saying "possible" I'm not at all surprised. She seems a serious journalist, and her "possible" could very well mean "I know for sure" but since the persons involved, meaning Victoria and Nikita, had not come out yet about that, she doesn't want to be the one to do that. It's like I give an information but I leave the room for them to decide if they want to make it public, now, or not. I think that's respectful.
Again, I'm speculating.

I gave those examples to show Nikita’s way of life off the ice, which is really far from a man who fell in love so desperately that he was able to come with such catastrophic scenario for Russian Ice Dance because of LOVE.

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I repeat again. I've seen far more worse. People are capable to act or do things that other might not understand or think possible, or that might sound reasonable.
I'm not saying that I'm right that he did it for LOVE, as I said I'm not sure at all about anything, but the example that you brought this proves nothing either.
Time will tell us....

(The video with brother-sister kiss mentioned above is nice and cute, but this is not that moment.)

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I thought it was not that video, but you still did not answer to my question related to this. What are you (or the poeple who saw them kiss) suggesting, that she was in a relationship with Nikita this whole period?

elif said:

Are you sure this judge talking about Marina Anissina, not Irina Lobacheva

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Tbh Anissina was not what you would call slim and yes, she was a bit big for a dancer.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

Actually, it's outrageous enough that they came 4th and that close to winning.

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Why?

Abraxis12345 said:

Similarily, when the Fed says they don't support the splits, it's really the fed trying to absolve themselves of any fault in the I/K and S/Z splits by saying "we were never for this". Vaitsekhovskaya also believes it's just PR speak by the fed.

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You think the Fed was for this?

Alba said:

You think the Fed was for this?

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I think this was planned for a long time and the only reason why the Federation is making these statements is because it looks bad that an Olympic medalist team is splitting. Had I/K finished 9th like last year, it would be like Bazarova/Larionov or Mukhortova/Trankov. Promising but underachieving team splits up. Not national heroes split up.

Abraxis12345 said:

I think this was planned for a long time and the only reason why the Federation is making these statements is because it looks bad that an Olympic medalist team is splitting. Had I/K finished 9th like last year, it would be like Bazarova/Larionov or Mukhortova/Trankov. Promising but underachieving team splits up. Not national heroes split up.

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I understand.

Even Russian Federation can't be that stupid. They are giving potential world champion of 2015 and potential olympic champion of 2018 and what they will get for this? I'm not even sure both teams can get world medal, let alone championship title in this quad. I can't see any logic for Russian Federation, do you?

Abraxis12345 said:

I think this was planned for a long time and the only reason why the Federation is making these statements is because it looks bad that an Olympic medalist team is splitting. Had I/K finished 9th like last year, it would be like Bazarova/Larionov or Mukhortova/Trankov. Promising but underachieving team splits up. Not national heroes split up.

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I agree. The FED has long been impatient for results. It also believes that an athlete MUST sacrifice even his/her very health to achieve these results. It has been embarrassed for some time that the Americans and Canadians were dominating. So when it appeared that there was probably no hope for I/K probably after last years worlds (only three years on the senior circuit and one year before as juniors) they planned this. They were clearly of the opinion that Elena was at fault for both making much ado about nothing with her injuries and her involvement with Morozov and to some extent that she did not fit the mold (not thin enough) thus making all things difficult for Nikita. So this backs up her interview perfectly. They have always seen Nikita as the star of the pair regardless of his technical issues. The biggest mistake she made was agreeing to leave Zhulin, he would insist that they skate together, no room for show boating, but I think this did not go down well with Nikita's vision of how the pair should be.

She has almost always been fighting to remain paired up with him. If you read between the lines of a number of her Instagram posts even from last year this was clear. (Sorry maybe I lurk too much LOL.) They really did not envision that Lena would be revived and ready to grow, they gave up on her from last year at least. Lena had been hoping against hope that they would see her in a new light this year. But all was lost for a long time now. If you look at Nikita's posture during the FD exit interview you do not see a man in charge of his own actions, but rather a puppet. Lena was the one who was left to roll with the punches as they say.


But the FED is more than culpable for all this as too much pressure was put on the pair too soon. They are an impatient impractical people. They still to this day cannot come to terms with the FACT that it took V/M and D/W some 10 -12 years of hard work to get to where they were some 4 years ago. Such is life for the Russian figure skater.

I don't think the Fed was 100% behind it - maybe mooted as a possibility last summer, either because they were unhappy with I/K's progress or because Nikita wanted a change, but it was dependent on how things panned out this season. By Euros, they were definitely on board with keeping I/K together, but for whatever reason Nikita still wanted to change. I know from someone who knows Lena that they were trying very hard to change Nikita's mind after Worlds - and if they were OK with the splits, they would not have voted not to approve them a couple of weeks ago.

If they are just concerned with PR control, the protestations when the news first came out was enough, once everyone is training with new partners they can say "we couldn't stop it" without losing any face, approve the new couples and kick the PR machine into supporting them. They could even start dropping stories in the press justifying why Nikita made his choice - there's enough already out there to say for them to say Lena is a lazy partner, not committed etc etc - instead of the situation now where he is not portrayed in a good light. As it is, the continued denial, saying nothing is settled and voting not to even approve the splits let alone the new partnerships just damages the standing of all concerned. This is a sport were reputation counts for so much & if they were really behind all of this all the way I do not understand why they would act in such a way.

elif said:

Even Russian Federation can't be that stupid. They are giving potential world champion of 2015 and potential olympic champion of 2018 and what they will get for this? I'm not even sure both teams can get world medal, let alone championship title in this quad. I can't see any logic for Russian Federation, do you?

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Again, you are looking at potential vs reality. If we went by potential only, Verner would be a world champ by now. Take away Sochi, I/K were a dreadfully inconsistent team with lots of problems. Not unlike M/T were. The difference was that I/K delivered in Sochi. So the new pairings look more like a downgrade rather than a Volosozhar/Trankov super pairing

Read between the lines. The federation said they "don't support" the splits. Not that they don't approve the new pairings. It's like when Congress has a vote to condemn a country. Their official position is that they are against something
But in the end it means nothing. I am an ex-hill staffer so I am well aware of how officials carefully choose words.

As for what Elena said, she probably doesn't know the whole story. And Ruslan probably doesn't either. For what it's worth, Sinitsina's sister, who appears to still be friendly with Ruslan, made a comment on Sinitsina's Instagram that they fans don't know the real story.

uhh said:

I don't think the Fed was 100% behind it - maybe mooted as a possibility last summer, either because they were unhappy with I/K's progress or because Nikita wanted a change, but it was dependent on how things panned out this season. By Euros, they were definitely on board with keeping I/K together, but for whatever reason Nikita still wanted to change. I know from someone who knows Lena that they were trying very hard to change Nikita's mind after Worlds - and if they were OK with the splits, they would not have voted not to approve them a couple of weeks ago.

If they are just concerned with PR control, the protestations when the news first came out was enough, once everyone is training with new partners they can say "we couldn't stop it" without losing any face, approve the new couples and kick the PR machine into supporting them. They could even start dropping stories in the press justifying why Nikita made his choice - there's enough already out there to say for them to say Lena is a lazy partner, not committed etc etc - instead of the situation now where he is not portrayed in a good light. As it is, the continued denial, saying nothing is settled and voting not to even approve the splits let alone the new partnerships just damages the standing of all concerned. This is a sport were reputation counts for so much & if they were really behind all of this all the way I do not understand why they would act in such a way.

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That's how I see it too.

Abraxis12345 said:

Sinitsina's sister, who appears to still be friendly with Ruslan, made a comment on Sinitsina's Instagram that they fans don't know the real story.

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As usual, say something and say nothing. Do they still use this tactic?

Abraxis12345 said:

Again, you are looking at potential vs reality. If we went by potential only, Verner would be a world champ by now. Take away Sochi, I/K were a dreadfully inconsistent team with lots of problems. Not unlike M/T were. The difference was that I/K delivered in Sochi. So the new pairings look more like a downgrade rather than a Volosozhar/Trankov super pairing

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Please This is ice dance, not single or pairs skating. You can see, even with a big big twizzle mistake they can be 1 point behind of gold medalist. This is reality.

Alba said:

As usual, say something and say nothing. Do they still use this tactic?

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Don't they have some PR people at all?

I'm still waiting for real story Victoria. Please tell us more sordid details of Ruslan. I'm sure she is going to talk about this break up, just after federation accept her partnership. After all there is still danger to skate with Ruslan.

After the Elena Ilinykh's interview, this will be is great opportunity to show your maturity, please whine about Ruslan or Kustarova -Sarcasm-

Alba said:

p.s. Lopatkina or Zaharova as the best Swan?

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In my eyes…it is hard to decide. Using these videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T2UeKKac-s
…Lopatkina has wonderful smooth arm moves which really looks like wings…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW3GAjAKges
…while Zahrarova has better technique mainly visible looking at leg’s work, but her arms are not like wings like in Lopatkina’s case…
Overall expression is strong from both of them.
I would add Plisetskaya http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-AMH_Woywg …it is video from 1959 and a ballet technique was a little bit different those times, but Maya has great arms reminding wings also, I would also point head movements which were more visible and contrasted with the whole body in comparison with first two ballerinas.

Alba said:

I thought it was not that video, but you still did not answer to my question related to this. What are you (or the poeple who saw them kiss) suggesting, that she was in a relationship with Nikita this whole period?

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That person who saw them was surprised with it only. To me it was another thing which leaded me to the opinion that Nikita is free from any relationship and lives his life for the moment, once with one girl, then with another girl, nothing serious just making nice day to himself…why not? Without serious relationship, why to feel some restrictions? Many people live like this.
But if you love your lady so much to make such decision and even come too far in not straight and fair behaviour (to Lena and Ruslan)…hiding everything to the last moment…if deep love to your lady shows you this way like the only way…you usually don’t kiss another girl (even your ex-girlfriend), you usually don’t drive with showbusiness sexbomb beside you in late night…you usually don’t allow a half world to be aggresive to your “possible“ girlfriend. While even Sinitsina’s sister and some foreign people tries to protect Victoria, Nikita is quiet. Nothing at Instagram to show a support towards Victoria. Nikita made angry comments about wrong account, he was criticising the press that they don’t allow him to train…but not even one word for Victoria’s protection. But it was Nikita who started this, he persuaded Viki to skate with him, now, she is a target for many people who doesn’t support the split…and what is Nikita doing? He is protecting himself only.

Alba said:

Tbh Anissina was not what you would call slim and yes, she was a bit big for a dancer.

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One “big“ Annissina, another “big“ Tessa – two Olympic Champions….against anorexic looking Irina Shtork, Galit Chait, Melissa Gregory – what did they win???
…I am patiently waiting for a moment when coaches, judges and Federation realise that great dancers are defined by their dancing not by zero clothes‘s size.

uhh said:

I don't think the Fed was 100% behind it - maybe mooted as a possibility last summer, either because they were unhappy with I/K's progress or because Nikita wanted a change, but it was dependent on how things panned out this season. By Euros, they were definitely on board with keeping I/K together, but for whatever reason Nikita still wanted to change. I know from someone who knows Lena that they were trying very hard to change Nikita's mind after Worlds - and if they were OK with the splits, they would not have voted not to approve them a couple of weeks ago.

If they are just concerned with PR control, the protestations when the news first came out was enough, once everyone is training with new partners they can say "we couldn't stop it" without losing any face, approve the new couples and kick the PR machine into supporting them. They could even start dropping stories in the press justifying why Nikita made his choice - there's enough already out there to say for them to say Lena is a lazy partner, not committed etc etc - instead of the situation now where he is not portrayed in a good light. As it is, the continued denial, saying nothing is settled and voting not to even approve the splits let alone the new partnerships just damages the standing of all concerned. This is a sport were reputation counts for so much & if they were really behind all of this all the way I do not understand why they would act in such a way.

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I agree, these are good ideas.

sisinka said:

In my eyes…it is hard to decide. Using these videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T2UeKKac-s
…Lopatkina has wonderful smooth arm moves which really looks like wings…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW3GAjAKges
…while Zahrarova has better technique mainly visible looking at leg’s work, but her arms are not like wings like in Lopatkina’s case…
Overall expression is strong from both of them.
I would add Plisetskaya http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-AMH_Woywg …it is video from 1959 and a ballet technique was a little bit different those times, but Maya has great arms reminding wings also, I would also point head movements which were more visible and contrasted with the whole body in comparison with first two ballerinas.

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Plisetskaya yes, she was the greatest during that period. Not only her head movements here, also her arms are perfect.

That person who saw them was surprised with it only. To me it was another thing which leaded me to the opinion that Nikita is free from any relationship and lives his life for the moment, once with one girl, then with another girl, nothing serious just making nice day to himself…why not? Without serious relationship, why to feel some restrictions? Many people live like this.
But if you love your lady so much to make such decision and even come too far in not straight and fair behaviour (to Lena and Ruslan)…hiding everything to the last moment…if deep love to your lady shows you this way like the only way…you usually don’t kiss another girl (even your ex-girlfriend), you usually don’t drive with showbusiness sexbomb beside you in late night…you usually don’t allow a half world to be aggresive to your “possible“ girlfriend. While even Sinitsina’s sister and some foreign people tries to protect Victoria, Nikita is quiet. Nothing at Instagram to show a support towards Victoria. Nikita made angry comments about wrong account, he was criticising the press that they don’t allow him to train…but not even one word for Victoria’s protection. But it was Nikita who started this, he persuaded Viki to skate with him, now, she is a target for many people who doesn’t support the split…and what is Nikita doing? He is protecting himself only.

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Or that maybe the kiss he/she saw is nothing in the end? I don't know why make a whole movie over a kiss which apparently suggest nothing.

One “big“ Annissina, another “big“ Tessa – two Olympic Champions….against anorexic looking Irina Shtork, Galit Chait, Melissa Gregory – what did they win???

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And what I said is related to their talent and winning because?
I simply answered to elif who said:

Are you sure this judge talking about Marina Anissina, not Irina Lobacheva

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So I replied yes because truth is she was "big", not Lobacheva. The fact that Anissina was talented and a much better dancer has nothing to do with what I said.

…I am patiently waiting for a moment when coaches, judges and Federation realise that great dancers are defined by their dancing not by zero clothes‘s size.

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You'll have a long waiting.

Alba said:

And what I said is related to their talent and winning because?
I simply answered to elif who said:
So I replied yes because truth is she was "big", not Lobacheva. The fact that Anissina was talented and a much better dancer has nothing to do with what I said.

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It was more about coaches, judges and Federations, not about what you, Alba . I criticised those people for their opinions, not you. Sure there are people who have bigger weights and those who are tinny a little or tinny too much, but overall every skating girl is on diet from early age. Simply your genes and body are something what you can't change. And I am angry at all people who tries to destroy skater's chances for good results only because they don't have "dream body" with 45 kilograms. The tinner dancer is not better dancer and the tinner jumper is not better jumper, but to explain it to some skating experts is really difficult.

Why to criticise more musculine and more short legs? If a skater is skating/dancing and the only what you remember is her big backside, then is it not probably the best skater/dancer. But if skater/dancer shows great performance with strong impression, then her backside is the last thing what people will concentrate for.

Alba said:

Tbh Anissina was not what you would call slim and yes, she was a bit big for a dancer.

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Yes but I was talking about ''she was laying on Ilia’s neck and he was pulling her from one corner of the ice surface to another'' (bold) If this judge thought Lobacheva better than Anissina, he/she is just blind. I watched Anissina/Averbukh's junior dances, they are technically very good for juniors. They have carisma too, especially their gala performances. Ehh, and of the day they paid this mistake with a olympc gold medal.

sisinka said:

It was more about coaches, judges and Federations, not about what you, Alba . I criticised those people for their opinions, not you. Sure there are people who have bigger weights and those who are tinny a little or tinny too much, but overall every skating girl is on diet from early age. Simply your genes and body are something what you can't change. And I am angry at all people who tries to destroy skater's chances for good results only because they don't have "dream body" with 45 kilograms. The tinner dancer is not better dancer and the tinner jumper is not better jumper, but to explain it to some skating experts is really difficult.

Why to criticise more musculine and more short legs? If a skater is skating/dancing and the only what you remember is her big backside, then is it not probably the best skater/dancer. But if skater/dancer shows great performance with strong impression, then her backside is the last thing what people will concentrate for.

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Ah ok. I thought for a moment that you took my comment as a weight criticism to those skaters.

I so do agree with you, but unfortunately we do know very well how sick they are about this. I never knew that Tessa was "fat" , till she said she was hearing people alluding that.