Elena Ilinykh & Nikita Katsalapov Split | Page 117 | Golden Skate

Elena Ilinykh & Nikita Katsalapov Split

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Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
The issues noted in Victoria's skating had been pointed out by others when the pairings were announced. Rostislav Sinitsyn, Nelli's coach, pointed out that Victoria has stiff knees and Alexeeva has said that the knees were a problem in the past. Sinitysn also pointed out that Victoria's beauty is pretty cold which might dull romantic programs.

I didn't read those comments and had no idea about all this. I only saw Victoria and Ruslan this year. I must say I didn't even remember them from the Olympics. I paid more attention to them during the world.

Her expression was something that K&A have tried to work on in the past, and Simonenko pointed out in his blog that she just prefers to be in the background, even in interviews (he said Ruslan usually had to do the talking).

She defenitely gives that impression. Probably that's also another reason why Nikita wanted her.
I get the impression that he needs to be the main focus in the couple, but funny enough he stood out more when he was with Elena.
I don't know how to explain. I don't see his presence that much, but it might be too early to judge that too.

That being said, the lines are nice and they are pretty to watch. I would avoid anything too romantic for now and just pick something that shows off their great lines. That exhibition was supposed to show "the soul of the pair". If that's the case, that is one empty soul..

I don't know if Marina is getting stale or is she really so obsessed with this "romantic" stuff.
 

kauh888

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9gzL72lOLw
S/K on show today( i posted Davankova/Enbert-they were great- and Zabiako/Larionov in another thread)

not bad at all for the 1st skate together after a month of training. She, for sure, looks better with Nikita. For him, not that sure, Elena still would be my choice...
As a dancer myself, something bothers me when Victoria skates. I am not sure what it is, either I want her to open shoulders more or to show more of her neck or maybe she could work more gracefully with her arms. Don't know how to explain it, but something about her upper body feels stiff.
Thanks for sharing! :)

huh, this exhibition piece reminds me quite a bit of some of Virtue and Moir's past numbers and Davis and White's Rachmaninoff number in feel and even in some of the choreography/moves were exactly the same or very, very similar. Guess Zoueva wasn't feeling like changing it up. I'm going to reserve my real judgment of Nikita/Victoria for when we actually see a real competition SD or FD, but my first impression is that they definitely have stuff to work on (it's only been a month or so but still, just off the bat stuff that I'm noticing). I didn't feel much chemistry (more of this lukewarm trying to make up for chemistry with body and face proximity), and there was definitely some apprehension going into some of the lifts. A little bit of a run-of-the-mill exhibition piece to me, not too exciting or with much personal flair and style, but like some people have said, it's still early. Time will tell for both couples.

ETA: Just watched the ice-level view. Wow. She looks quite tall compared to him height-difference wise. Maybe I'm just used to seeing the height difference of couples like Nikita and Elena, Meryl and Charlie, and Tessa and Scott. You can just barely see Nikita's eyes peeking over the top of Victoria's head when he was standing behind her as they were getting into starting position!
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
I'll never understand why everyone who does a romantic program should remind V&M? They were hardly the only ones to have skated this stuff. Apparently Zueva's PR work is already having an effect. :confused: A

This team can hardly remind V&M's fluidity, grace, elegance, passion and fire (see Carmen) on ice.
 

kauh888

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
I'll never understand why everyone who does a romantic program should remind V&M? They were hardly the only ones to have skated this stuff. Apparently Zueva's PR work is already having an effect. :confused: A

This team can hardly remind V&M's fluidity, grace, elegance, passion and fire (see Carmen) on ice.
I didn't mean that Nikita and Victoria have V&M's fluidity and grace, because they definitely don't (at least not yet), but I feel that Nikita and Victoria were kind of trying to emulate V&M's romantic feel (Mahler, etc.).

And V&M weren't the first to do this type of romantic program, but for me, it's their signature, and they're the most recent and well-known couple that does more romantic programs (Davis/White are more athletic and obviously dramatic like in Scheherazade imo). It's what I think of when I think of V&M. Their FD this year and at Vancouver (both venues and times where general public would see them perform more than usual) were both more romantic than fierce and fiery like their Carmen. Not to mention that Nikita and Victoria are now coached by Zoueva, so seeing them skate, I personally tend to compare students of a certain coach against each other in particular.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
I didn't mean that Nikita and Victoria have V&M's fluidity and grace, because they definitely don't (at least not yet), but I feel that Nikita and Victoria were kind of trying to emulate V&M's romantic feel (Mahler, etc.).

And V&M weren't the first to do this type of romantic program, but for me, it's their signature, and they're the most recent and well-known couple that does more romantic programs (Davis/White are more athletic and obviously dramatic like in Scheherazade imo). It's what I think of when I think of V&M. Their FD this year and at Vancouver (both venues and times where general public would see them perform more than usual) were both more romantic than fierce and fiery like their Carmen. Not to mention that Nikita and Victoria are now coached by Zoueva, so seeing them skate, I personally tend to compare students of a certain coach against each other in particular.

I was not referring to you only. There was also another user early on who said the same thing. :)

I just think that trying to emulate V&M by just doing romantic stuff it doesn't make them similar, so I really don't understand how could they remind V&M, but that's just me probably.

The canadians were great skaters not thanks to their romanticism and chemistry. That too, but IMO they were great thanks to their skating skills and ability to perform different kind of music and characters.
Yes they did Mahler and the Seasons, but they also did Pink Floyd, that hot latin dance, that champagne funny face, and that fierce Carmen.
I actually do think that all that romantic talk (thanks to Zueva as well) about V&M did hurt them a bit in the end, because they were stereotyped (thank you again Zueva).

In anycase these two are not capable of doing romatinc stuff, not for a while at least, so better not go that way with them Marina.
 

sisinka

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Sisinka, I don't know if I can trust my own eyes, what do you see in S/K? But wow V/T came in just to see them and introduce them? Has the FED decided to back them and put I/Z out in the cold? All because of looks? Shame, shame :cry:

Well, my notes…this is the result of one and half months of work with Zueva. I think this was a great idea that couple showed what they had learnt, feedback is always important, even with more criticism because they skate together for short time. There is still plenty of time to improve, but if at least 20% of Nikita and Vika’s words are true, than they will work hard and improve.

To judge them properly it would be much better to show a part of competive program with some step sequence to see edges and close holds. In this program there was no step sequence, almost no skating in close holds, cross-overs looked to be be very often there also.

Only few couples on the world could skate on this melody without creating a boring program – somebody like V&M or Domnina & Shabalin – they would definitely do something interesting with it. I can imagine Zueva listening to this music while she looks at pictures of S&K, but use this music for their gala program – I don’t take it like a happy choice.

Why in the beginning Trankov announced S&K like the main and the most interesting debut here, I really don’t understand. He is Nikita’s great friend, but why to put down Larionov and Davankova & Enbert thanks to his friendship with Nikita…this was a faux pas.
If Trankov will be again invited to comment Dance Cathegory at Russian Nationals like he did this season (where he persuaded fans that Nikita had to be on the first place after the short program, completely ignoring the fact the Nikita made two mistakes in two elements there…), we will probably be shocked once again…

I liked lifts, first looked to be one of those which somebody – Meryl? did and second was a variation on Bobrova & Soloviev’s lift (taking into the position was problematic a little bit, but they manage it very well). Overall it looks like that lifts will be nice elements, only Nikita had to be careful in keeping balance because Victoria is taller, so the balance point will be a little bit different than with Lena. Spin was OK, in opposite direction it was slower but it is normal.

Overall speed was normal, Zueva probably talked about speed in cross-overs or in basic steps, but not here.

Knee action – it looks like Vika forgot to use knees, BUT there were almost no elements where you could properly watch knee action, most of turns they used are done by all skaters on not deep knees. You need step sequences to watch knee action. Please, please, don’t give toe steps and jumps to a skaters who are talk and normally (Vika) or more heavily (Nikita) built. It will never get the impression which it needs to – easiness or lightness. Meryl can use this and look lovely, but not tall skaters!

I came back to slow part of Norma FD and compared old Vika with new Vika, and Ruslan with Nikita to have better vision what I don’t agree with. Vika got million advises from everybody…the result is that her knees are less deep (watching step sequnces with Ruslan, she had deep knees enought and lovely edges), her expression is a little bit pale, her arms are less gracefull, suddenly she is not finishing all movements and she is overacting in mimics which she never done before. Maybe Zueva should re-think that not all specialists gave good advises. Victoria like Lena are not dynamic skaters with dynamic moves, it were always partners who gave dynamics into programs.

To Nikita – having the same partner, Ruslan presents Victoria like the queen and Nikita supported his words from interview – Victoria is there to help him get medals. I see it in their skating as well. While Victoria and Ruslan had a connection between themselves and Ruslan took her like an equal partner despite the fact that he was a leader, Nikita takes Vika inferior to himself and looks to skate for audience, not for his girl/muse, even when he looks at her, I have a feeling that he just tries to play some emotions. OK, Lena could present herself because like Nikita she is very self-confident person and single skater in mind, but Victoria is a pair skater in mind, she listens to her partner and she needs to be treated like that. And by the way Vika’s behaviour is the reason why Nikita chose her, so he wanted exactly a partner who will look at him like he is the only leader, but he doesn’t know to work with it yet. And comparing Nikita to Ruslan having the same partner and similar love story – Nikita overacts and sometimes he looks to skate with an affect, he is far to natural dancer (but the same problem I had with him at least last two seasons).

What I don’t agree with the most…THIS IS NOT RUSSIAN SKATING STYLE. Zueva, Nikita and Victoria said that a program shows the soul of their couple, OK, but then it is not Russian soul. And frankly I think that Zueva made a mistake if she really sees S&K in this style. Image of a couple must show what skaters have inside, what is close to them, not trying to learn them something what is not inside. Nikita “sugar“ skating is well known for long and we know that he loves Moir’s style, which was quite sugar as well, but you can notice that even Moir showed himself in “non sugar“ style like in Latin or Carmen programs and suddenly he was much more natural and for me much better dancer than ever before, because inside his personality is far from sugar, but much more “normal“ and even quite iron like. Nikita probably still doesn’t know what he is like as dancer and in moment when Victoria waits for him to lead her like Ruslan did, he is quite lost so far and whole impression goes down. But in my opinion he is not a “sugar“ skaters. Zueva should try to find another style for him. As to Victoria Zueva very well discovered that a girl can be tender in moves and romantic. Well, she can be also coquettish. But in this moment Zueva changed two traits in character – tender doesn’t mean sweet. Victoria is not sweet girl, but she can be tender and romantic.

This comes into explanation of Russian skating style. It is a style where big drama and tragic stories where you almost stop breathing playes the main role (Krylova, Domnina, Navka, also Annissina). It was hardly “sugar“. Russian skaters used big movements, strong expression –body movement’s expression first (what face had done was always on second or third place even behind costumes), Russian dancers were using strong melodies and were able to express it perfectly. What Zueva and Sphilband show, despite the fact that they are Russians, is American / Canadian style of skating and choreography. It doesn’t have a drama or expression of Russian skating style. (V&M are an exception, even they didn’t have Russian skating style‘s feeling, but their Carmen was strong enought and very expressive.) If Zueva wants to make an American couple from S&K, I don’t think that it is good idea, because they both have Russian school of skating and their presentation at least in Victoria’s case is much more close to Russian style then to American style.

Overall impression is good, but as to presentation quite pale, not WOW effect yet. But there is still time…

And now I would like to see Lena & Ruslan’s videos – 30 seconds of some choreographic part to any music (or SD or FD), elements – one lift, twizzles, spin, step sequence. If Russian Federation refuse to make a propaganda of both teams equal, then Lena & Ruslan & their coaches must take it into their hands.
It doesn't have a sense for Lena & Ruslan to hide when Vika & Nikita already showed their skating, the main competition for any places at Russian Nationals and Grand Prix will be between them, B&S and some other top international couples (W&P, C&L) will have their own plans and this season they will probably be untouchable. S&K and I&Z's work for this season will be an adaptation at most high places possible at Grand Prix, try to get into National Team and try to overtake each other. Once S&K showed together, I&Z should do the same step, Zueva is a tactical person, she may come to judges and people around skating world in private with an idea that S&K are great, looking at the fact that they skate together for 1,5 months, and because nobody saw I&Z - it must mean that that couple is afraid, so they certainly must be worse. Don't forget Zueva is a tactical person and off ice discussion tactitian. It is always better to show yourself to let people make own opinion that to allow your rival's coach to talk about you and create an opinion which works for them, not for you. There is nothing more easy for Zueva then to spread a non public rumour that I&Z were invited as well but they refused, because they were afraid of comparison with S&K and they were not ready even for gala number. And a silence from team Kustarova & Alexeeva and no videos of kids on the ice would only support this idea. :rolleye:
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
And now I would like to see Lena & Ruslan’s videos – 30 seconds of some choreographic part to any music (or SD or FD), elements – one lift, twizzles, spin, step sequence. If Russian Federation refuse to make a propaganda of both teams equal, then Lena & Ruslan & their coaches must take it into their hands.
It doesn't have a sense for Lena & Ruslan to hide when Vika & Nikita already showed their skating, the main competition for any places at Russian Nationals and Grand Prix will be between them, B&S and some other top international couples (W&P, C&L) will have their own plans and this season they will probably be untouchable. S&K and I&Z's work for this season will be an adaptation at most high places possible at Grand Prix, try to get into National Team and try to overtake each other. Once S&K showed together, I&Z should do the same step, Zueva is a tactical person, she may come to judges and people around skating world in private with an idea that S&K are great, looking at the fact that they skate together for 1,5 months, and because nobody saw I&Z - it must mean that that couple is afraid, so they certainly must be worse. Don't forget Zueva is a tactical person and off ice discussion tactitian. It is always better to show yourself to let people make own opinion that to allow your rival's coach to talk about you and create an opinion which works for them, not for you. There is nothing more easy for Zueva then to spread a non public rumour that I&Z were invited as well but they refused, because they were afraid of comparison with S&K and they were not ready even for gala number. And a silence from team Kustarova & Alexeeva and no videos of kids on the ice would only support this idea. :rolleye:

There is plenty of time for I&Z to show themselves to the international judges and the world. I'm sure that the people from the Russian federation have seen them and they've got their feedback.
There is no need to play Zueva's game at this moment at all. They should play their own game, and I really hope that will be a game called great skating. If they can do that rest assured that the Rus Federation will do all the talking with the judges.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
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It was an interesting video. It looks to me as though, if Nikita's main goal was to be in a partnership where the audience's eye is more drawn to him rather than to his partner, he has achieved that goal.

Although there have been successful teams where the guy is the center of attention, like T&D, the only Russian team in that mold that I recall would be Lobacheva & Averbukh. I think this team should go to him for choreo rather than Zoueva, whose preference for repeating Gordeeva & Grinkov programs is not a good fit. Both Davis & White and Virtue & Moir had a vision of what they wanted their style to be. Consequently, they never looked in the same style. People have credited this to Zoueva, but I would credit the two teams instead. When she had a team with less clear vision of themselves, and who could not be packaged in the G&G mold, they languished. I am, of course referring to the Shibutanis.
 
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Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
It was an interesting video. It looks to me as though, if Nikita's main goal was to be in a partnership where the audience's eye is most drawn to him rather than to his partner, he has achieved that goal.

Although there have been successful teams where the guy is the center of attention, like T&D, the only Russian team in that mold that I recall would be Lobacheva & Averbukh. I think this team should go to him for choreo rather than Zoueva, whose preference for repeating Gordeeva & Grinkov programs is not a good fit. Both Davis & White and Virtue & Moir had a vision of what they wanted their style to be. Consequently, they never looked in the same style. People have credited this to Zoueva, but I would credit the two teams instead. When she had a team with less clear vision of themselves, and who could not be packaged in the G&G mold, they languished. I am, of course referring to the Shibutanis.

Agreed.


@All: OMG. I had never seen this pic of Elena before, when she was a little girl with V&M. :)
http://vk.com/figureskater?z=photo-65833250_330987966/album-65833250_00/rev
 

elif

Medalist
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
There is plenty of time for I&Z to show themselves to the international judges and the world. I'm sure that the people from the Russian federation have seen them and they've got their feedback.
There is no need to play Zueva's game at this moment at all.

I agree. Why they will be afraid of S/K here? I don't want to sound like Oksana Grishuk but Elena can learn this choreography in 5 minutes, and skate one hell a lot of convincing than that :laugh:
I liked lifts, first looked to be one of those which somebody – Meryl? did and second was a variation on Bobrova & Soloviev’s lift (taking into the position was problematic a little bit, but they manage it very well). Overall it looks like that lifts will be nice elements, only Nikita had to be careful in keeping balance because Victoria is taller, so the balance point will be a little bit different than with Lena. Spin was OK, in opposite direction it was slower but it is normal.
I don't know why you thought lifts will be OK? Those lifts are not level4, they don't have difficult entry or difficult position for either of them (except layback for Victoria,) and they didn't have good execution too. Most important thing for me in lifts are music and creative position. Those are same old Zoueva ideas (like she give Virtue/Moir this year) and not my taste. Of course they could work for it more. :biggrin:

Second lift reminding me Virtue/Moir. With a difficult entrance and difficult position for Sinitsina, this could look exactly like that
http://youtu.be/GPS9eMwb8gE?t=4m10s

Bonus is Weaver/Poje.
http://youtu.be/UbiC0GXkj1Y?t=4m36s
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
I don't want to sound like Oksana Grishuk but Elena can learn this choreography in 5 minutes, and skate one hell a lot of convincing than that :laugh:

Oh please do. I miss her and loved her a lot. :biggrin:
 

Kittosuni

Medalist
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
You can tell this is a different nikita because before i feel like elena is carrying the team but now nikita is in charge in this team. They both look pleasant but victoria really needs to connect to him and to the audience. But marina can use this to their advantage. Make a romantic program where nikita( expressive) is pursuing/ chasing victoria (stoic). Ala a hopeless romantic guy chasing a hard to get snub lady
 

kittyvondutch

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 10, 2014
It does look from the performance that nikita wants to be the center of attention. He shouldn't forget that it is a partnership, that if he has to win gold medals it is not for himself but for the partnership. As far as the performance is concerned, it was okay. Victoria does have a lot of improving to do. It's like she has unlearnt everything she learnt when she was in Kustarova's group :unsure:
it was nothing special, easily forgotten. Better not take that road when it comes to actual championships. All we can do is wait and see.
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
It does look from the performance that nikita wants to be the center of attention. He shouldn't forget that it is a partnership, that if he has to win gold medals it is not for himself but for the partnership. As far as the performance is concerned, it was okay. Victoria does have a lot of improving to do. It's like she has unlearnt everything she learnt when she was in Kustarova's group :unsure:
it was nothing special, easily forgotten. Better not take that road when it comes to actual championships. All we can do is wait and see.

This is just his style, nothing can be done about it. If so Vika is the perfect foil for him. I hope I/Z get equal opportunities however to prove their worth.
 

YLFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Apr 3, 2014
My philosophy. Nikkita and Victoria isn't that far away from Nikkita and Elena. Keep in mind this is after one month and just some gala show. And Elena and Ruslan should be a bit better than Ruslan and Victoria.

So its creating two contending teams. Whereas in the past I don't think the Ruslan/Victoria team was a strong contender.
 

Totentanz

Ursula Gumennik
Medalist
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Maybe Lena&Ruslan team doesn't want to rush the things. They don't have to answer the performance of Vik&Nik. I'm sure they have a plan to be a successful team and they want to come to the scene perfect. Afterall, both are left behind and hurt I'm sure. (Even Vasilisa Davankova is hurt, although her ex partner told many good things about her in his interviews...)

I want this pain to make Lena&Ruslan ambitious to work hard and I hope it will.
 

uhh

Medalist
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
My philosophy. Nikkita and Victoria isn't that far away from Nikkita and Elena. Keep in mind this is after one month and just some gala show. And Elena and Ruslan should be a bit better than Ruslan and Victoria.

So its creating two contending teams. Whereas in the past I don't think the Ruslan/Victoria team was a strong contender.

Or, it's breaking 1 team that should have dominated the next 4 years and one team that could at least win European medals, and creating 2 teams that will probably be AT BEST 4th/5th/6th in the world for the next few seasons, and could even be overtaken in Russia by Stepanova/Bukin and Yanovskaia/Mozgov - maybe one of the new teams won't even make the European or World team, Russia has plenty of other good young dance teams who are preparing for the new season without having the extra problem of learning to skate with a new partner. One of the key things that an ice dance team needs to gel & be successful is time. Look at Paul Poirier, he has skated with Gilles for 3 seasons and he is still yet to get the results (GP medals and reaching GPF, 7th at Worlds) that he did with Crone. Maybe these new couples will see great results in 2 or 3 seasons time, but before that they could be passed by some of the teams (C/B, Shibs, P/C, C/P) that were behind them.
 

Totentanz

Ursula Gumennik
Medalist
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
My philosophy. Nikkita and Victoria isn't that far away from Nikkita and Elena. Keep in mind this is after one month and just some gala show. And Elena and Ruslan should be a bit better than Ruslan and Victoria.

So its creating two contending teams. Whereas in the past I don't think the Ruslan/Victoria team was a strong contender.

I agree. This change will produce good results for each of Victoria and Ruslan, and maybe for Russia to have three strong couples.
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Totentanz, this is probably right. I don't think we ever saw what I/K could have really been though. Their personal relationships interfered. Lena especially suffered under Morozov, no pun intended. Only in the last season did they begin to give her some attention, largely in part because Nik knew he would be leaving her anyway. With Zhulin he at least tried to create balance and unity. I think this is a blessing in disguise for Lena and Ruslan. I hope they use the opportunity wisely. As for responding to calls to show their skating, I am sure they will when the time is right.
 

sisinka

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
I don't know why you thought lifts will be OK?....

I don’t expect those lifts to be those competive lifts, maybe some positions will be used in competive programs. I only noticed that a couple looks to handle lifts well (not looking at that one mistake, but looking at how he lifts her, how she gets into a position, how that position looks like, how is he keeping his balance). And looking at today’s lifts, I have a feeling, that competive lifts will be OK, that‘s all.
 
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