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Thread: Elena Ilinykh & Nikita Katsalapov Split

  1. #2671
    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsfan View Post
    Thank Sisinka and Alba for replying. It just can't convince to me that I/Z are better( or equal to) than S/K at this point, although I hope they are better. Why TAT didn't like S/Z? any details? Does she like their coaches? Z?
    She has not seen them yet. They were first on vacation and now in Latvia training, but she loves Zueva apparently.
    When asked do you belive in S&K her reply was: I belive in Zueva.

    According to sisinka though she never liked S&Z.

  2. #2672
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsfan View Post
    Thank Sisinka and Alba for replying. It just can't convince to me that I/Z are better( or equal to) than S/K at this point, although I hope they are better. Why TAT didn't like S/Z? any details? Does she like their coaches? Z?
    You've brought up an excellent point: how at this point can someone be so sure that I/Z or S/K are better (or equal to) already? It's certainly a valid point. Four years ago in pairs (yes discipline is different but analogous), we weren't sure if V/T were better than K/S until they debuted powerfully at Russian nationals. For all of the raw talent assembled, we're not sure if I/Z or S/K right now are competitive in terms of assembled talent, and also have the team energy and collective strength of mind to handle the intensity of competition. I do look forward to seeing how these three teams play it out ...

  3. #2673
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    Nothing will be proven until they take the ice. However, S/K have one major trump card that I/Z don't have Zueva. However, looking at the skaters individually the two that impress me the most are I/Z. Artistic, technically sound and reliable. Gosh when I watch Lena in their Don Quixote, I cringe at how her talents were wasted when she left Zhulin. If you look back at S/Z soberly (even their polka SD), Ruslan is the star, no doubt about it. He has touch, expression, control and passion. So regardless of how they do against each other, I want I/Z to get a fair shake by their team. They are really good skaters as well.

  4. #2674
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyanka View Post
    Overall, they're a "safe" choice in that they lack a certain x-factor, for me. I'm not alone on this, but I'm sure you and their fans disagree. They're not bad skaters by any means - they're quite accomplished, I think! - but they're just not distinctive. For me, there's no true star quality that makes them truly exciting to watch. I like that they do try to push themselves, but they don't stand out for me the way certain other star couples do.

    sisinka - and other fans here - I must say I like and respect how you've stuck up for and defended B/S. For me they're not the most exciting pair by any means, but I like the thought process you've given to this. It shows a real appreciation for them that I may not have. I enjoy our debate on this!
    Thanks for opinion.

    Here is where the problem starts…if people appreciate x-factor or star quality or skating quality or dancing quality. I must say that I was used to see everything in top couples until the end of last decade. With changement of new judging system, dancing and deep edges slowly dissapear and other more athletic and less dancy things come on the first place. I can’t get used to it, so when I see somebody who looks to have some real skating / dancing qualities like past top dancers had, I simply appreciate it.

    To x-factor, I know that it is very important for figure skating fans…and entertainment as well. But frankly Nora Hoffmann had bigger x-factor than Meryl or Madison Chock, why it was not enough than? Nora finished not higher than in top 8 at European Champs. For me Nora was decent in Skating Skills, and not variable in dancing despite her big passionate and wild character, so I was quite OK with her placement, but looking at x-factor and star quality, she should be definitely higher. So I really doubt how much star quality or x-factor should be included into marking and results. But for skating fans, it is essential, I know.

  5. #2675
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    Quote Originally Posted by sisinka View Post
    Thanks for opinion.

    Here is where the problem starts…if people appreciate x-factor or star quality or skating quality or dancing quality. I must say that I was used to see everything in top couples until the end of last decade. With changement of new judging system, dancing and deep edges slowly dissapear and other more athletic and less dancy things come on the first place. I can’t get used to it, so when I see somebody who looks to have some real skating / dancing qualities like past top dancers had, I simply appreciate it.

    To x-factor, I know that it is very important for figure skating fans…and entertainment as well. But frankly Nora Hoffmann had bigger x-factor than Meryl or Madison Chock, why it was not enough than? Nora finished not higher than in top 8 at European Champs. For me Nora was decent in Skating Skills, and not variable in dancing despite her big passionate and wild character, so I was quite OK with her placement, but looking at x-factor and star quality, she should be definitely higher. So I really doubt how much star quality or x-factor should be included into marking and results. But for skating fans, it is essential, I know.
    Another good point ... it is almost completely subjective. But the way I think of it is: when a competition is over, whose programs would I repeat watching on YouTube? I appreciate the close holds and technicality of some skaters, but if I don't find them "watchable", then I don't repeat. That for me is the difference between B&S and others.

    But then again, there is no such thing as "watchable" or "x-factor" points awarded under the judging system. Which is why although I am not as passionate about certain teams, I can understand why they would perform well. They may not be the pinnacle or the very top all the time, but they'll certainly be more than in the mix and still contend for the title. All things being equal and everyone skates lights-out, then the least memorable of the bunch fall further down the rankings unless those who are neck-and-neck with them make critical errors and lose valuable points.

    Not to belabor the point much more, but let's return to the original topic of I/K's split ... I hope for good things out of all teams mentioned here. If they all push and challenge one another, it will advance ice dancing.

  6. #2676
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsfan View Post
    Thank Sisinka and Alba for replying. It just can't convince to me that I/Z are better( or equal to) than S/K at this point, although I hope they are better. Why TAT didn't like S/Z? any details? Does she like their coaches? Z?
    She never told openly that she would dislike Ruslan or Victoria. Some people say that Kustarova / Alexeeva / Riabinina are in good terms with her, so who knows. But her critical attitude to Victoria & Ruslan while in the same moment she was praising Ivan Bukin was quite strange. Stepanova & Bukin finished 6th at Nationals this year. Personally looking at SD and FD at Nationals I would change some placements in top 6 there, but still S&B would lay on 5th or 6th place. Frankly until this season S&B are young and promising team who just came from juniors, but all other five Russian couples (B&S, I&K, S&Z, R&T and M&K) are a lot better in presentation, also better in skating skills, plus all those teams are more mature that S&B. Why Tarasova criticized S&Z and wanted to send Bukin at World Champs...it is good question but I don't have any logical or professional answer for it.

    But last year Tarasova almost looked to hate Konstantin Menshov who stood between Kovtun and European Champs... until this moment I can't get rid of an opinion that kicking Menshov out of European Team was unofficially mainly her work. And her notices about Menshov's age and no perspectives were really not on place. Why? For Kovtun? For something else? Only God knows.

  7. #2677
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    Quote Originally Posted by sisinka View Post
    She never told openly that she would dislike Ruslan or Victoria. Some people say that Kustarova / Alexeeva / Riabinina are in good terms with her, so who knows. But her critical attitude to Victoria & Ruslan while in the same moment she was praising Ivan Bukin was quite strange. Stepanova & Bukin finished 6th at Nationals this year. Personally looking at SD and FD at Nationals I would change some placements in top 6 there, but still S&B would lay on 5th or 6th place. Frankly until this season S&B are young and promising team who just came from juniors, but all other five Russian couples (B&S, I&K, S&Z, R&T and M&K) are a lot better in presentation, also better in skating skills, plus all those teams are more mature that S&B. Why Tarasova criticized S&Z and wanted to send Bukin at World Champs...it is good question but I don't have any logical or professional answer for it.

    But last year Tarasova almost looked to hate Konstantin Menshov who stood between Kovtun and European Champs... until this moment I can't get rid of an opinion that kicking Menshov out of European Team was unofficially mainly her work. And her notices about Menshov's age and no perspectives were really not on place. Why? For Kovtun? For something else? Only God knows.
    TAT is just a woman of very strange contradictions. Although in my unprofessional opinion TAT got wind of Nik and Vika's plans and she's been outraged ever since.

    Well Russia had better pull it together because competition is going to be fierce next year. What do you guys think about Jean-Luc Baker? IMHO, he and others are going to give Marina and company a run for their money, granted Kaitlyn can maintain her current form. The man can dance and manage his technique,

  8. #2678
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    Alexeeva is TAT's former assistant in the 80s. When TAT started to focus more on shows, Alexeeva inherited the group so no bad blood there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abraxis12345 View Post
    Alexeeva is TAT's former assistant in the 80s. When TAT started to focus more on shows, Alexeeva inherited the group so no bad blood there.
    Hmm, so TAT very well knows how I/Z are doing. She's just being coy. The nerve of this woman!

  10. #2680
    Tripping on the Podium TheGothicEme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyanka View Post
    I love that you use insanity and birds that way. :P
    But point well taken - it's a matter of taste, at least for me.
    I was referring to their presence on ice, not the content of their program.
    how very funny, "at least for me". can you find over 10 others agree with you? guess not.
    ok, so the programmes are nice but they are not, so can you find any other pairs can skate those programmes and be as good as them? Guess not (yet again)

  11. #2681
    Tripping on the Podium TheGothicEme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyanka View Post
    1) A lot of other teams are fast as well. Across the board, it's a given.

    2) I don't think the choreography is that interesting. Again, an aesthetic thing.

    3) I do agree that their close holds are very good, mostly in their SDs. I did enjoy this season's SD very much.

    4) Doesn't matter the presentation to me. They're unorthodox choices, for sure. I just don't think that the way they deliver the concept is striking, no matter how high-concept the theme.

    5) Their drama and expressiveness, for me, is just a bit flat. Although I liked how they presented their FD in Sochi, she was very much into it.

    6) They have range but for me it's not just not aesthetically pleasing.

    Overall, they're a "safe" choice in that they lack a certain x-factor, for me. I'm not alone on this, but I'm sure you and their fans disagree. They're not bad skaters by any means - they're quite accomplished, I think! - but they're just not distinctive. For me, there's no true star quality that makes them truly exciting to watch. I like that they do try to push themselves, but they don't stand out for me the way certain other star couples do.

    sisinka - and other fans here - I must say I like and respect how you've stuck up for and defended B/S. For me they're not the most exciting pair by any means, but I like the thought process you've given to this. It shows a real appreciation for them that I may not have. I enjoy our debate on this!
    Everything is " I I I I " for you, why am I not surprise?

  12. #2682
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    Personally I'm not describing any Carmen. I just hate the choice of the music. Sick and tired with it, so I'm hoping on the choreography to relieve the "pain".

    Anyway, Krylova's Carmen fantastic? Since when Carmen is a woman escaped from a psychiatric hospital?
    Carmen IS psychotic and deeply disturbed. The usual flirty, showy type of portrayal of Carmen is often superficial (not to mention overdone) compared to Krylova's, whose interpretation added depth and dimensions to the character, and made it more real than merely a character in an opera. I also thought her interpretation was fantastic.

  13. #2683
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGothicEme View Post
    Everything is " I I I I " for you, why am I not surprise?
    Of course. My opinion.
    Others agree with me, others don't.
    Mimi = me :P

    In all seriousness though - I love your avatar.

  14. #2684
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGothicEme View Post
    how very funny, "at least for me". can you find over 10 others agree with you? guess not.
    ok, so the programmes are nice but they are not, so can you find any other pairs can skate those programmes and be as good as them? Guess not (yet again)
    The programs are not great, they're not memorable, but they do well at what they do. I recognize and acknowledge that.
    Can I find other programs who can skate their programs as well as they have? I suppose we should coax D/W or V/M to swap FS's with them and let them try it out?

  15. #2685
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGothicEme View Post
    Everything is " I I I I " for you, why am I not surprise?
    By the way, sisinka defends B/S with thoughtful questions and a point-by-point analysis. Keep it in that key, OK?
    And let's get back to the main topic ... the I/K split. We're a bit off-topic here but we can meander back.

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