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Thread: Elena Ilinykh & Nikita Katsalapov Split

  1. #2791
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    So whatever seems to be favoritism doesn't really mean much when they all meet at international competition with international judges. And trust me, the Russian Federation wants the results and they don't care who they come from, so they have no reason to push one couple to the detriment of the other couple. the chances are that they will let them fight with each other internationally, stand back, watch and support the stronger one.
    I lost all my trust to ''international competitions with international judges'' after Cup of Russia 2013. We will see

    Quote Originally Posted by bramweld View Post
    They won both of these titles by the skin of their teeth and at Europeans because of a mistake by I/K. So both them and W/P and maybe B/S will be in a tight race for the top spot. I think they're just trying to stake a claim on that spot. In the current state of ice dancing there are no guarantees for any elite pair. Things are more open. Remember they were only fourth in the FD at the last worlds.
    But Igor could have help them too. Look at the new rules with partial step sequence in short dance, two types (A-B) of step sequences, lift/spin/twizzle rule changes. Igor usually very good with levels, especially after big changes like this year.

  2. #2792
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    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    I lost all my trust to ''international competitions with international judges'' after Cup of Russia 2013. We will see



    But Igor could have help them too. Look at the new rules with partial step sequence in short dance, two types (A-B) of step sequences, lift/spin/twizzle rule changes. Igor usually very good with levels, especially after big changes like this year.
    You have a point but maybe its a risk they're willing to take. I would have thought that they would have gone with Krylova and co. But given that Massimo left maybe there was no motivation to go that route. They will also have Margalio so maybe its a matter of getting a fresh image while also being comfortable.

  3. #2793
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I am really sorry, but what's wrong here is not what the Russian Federation is saying but what you are interpreting! For example, the fact that S/K were announced in 19th of May, while I&Z were confirmed 5th of June…it can be caused by not the Federation favouring on couple, but bu I and Z not knowing what the heck is going on. Katsalapov was the one calling the shots, so neither Elena nor Ruslan knew if their partner is coming back, so it is understandable that they were in no hurry of announcing a new couple because they did not know what Sinistsina and Katsalapov's decision will be.

    The same with all your other points. It is not a sign that the Federation is favoring one couple. All it meant was that the I/Z were not the ones making the decisions and therefore they were always one step behind S/K. They couldn't make any plans if they didn't know what S/K's plans were while S/K had their try out.
    Thanks to a fact that Alexeeva and Kustarova told openly in interview in April that they are waiting for Nikita and Vika’s explanation and final decision to let them (and Lena and Ruslan) solved everything what was needed, I don’t take it that Lena and Ruslan were not interested in things and just waited until Nikita‘s decision. They wanted to know as fast as possible how is situation looking like. But until Nikita‘s final decision both Lena and Ruslan had to wait. And why would be Nikita the first one and the only one to decide? How about Lena and Ruslan? After all those lies and unexpected surprises from Nikita and Vika, do you think that both Lena and Ruslan just waited and prayed that their partners would come back? After all of this? If they really wanted their partners back than they would never make a couple with each other and they would never prepared new programs so soon. Once Nikita decided to split a destroy another couple, all other three skaters should be free to make their decisions, they are all human ones with the same right, not Nikita on the first place and then others. This was not equal as well. And thanks to the fact that he was the one who caused all this situation, it was surprising that he was allowed to play the main role for whole time.

    Sorry, but first Larionov told that he finished with Vera, than Mozer announced it and finally then Very had something so say – in this irder how it happened. And the same for S&K and I&Z. All confirmed info comes from Russian Fed or from coaches who has and agreement of Russian Fed to spean openly. It really means that while S&K were announced like new couple and I&Z were announced a half months later – it came from Russian Fed members heads, it was not a media mistake.

  4. #2794
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    So whatever seems to be favoritism doesn't really mean much when they all meet at international competition with international judges. And trust me, the Russian Federation wants the results and they don't care who they come from, so they have no reason to push one couple to the detriment of the other couple. the chances are that they will let them fight with each other internationally, stand back, watch and support the stronger one.
    As to international judges – I must say that sometimes they are a very kind people. I heard on my own ears that during TEB 2013 members of Russian Fed and Russian officials were repeatedly talking to judges and asking them for good marks for the Russian Ice Dance couple using arguments that the couple needs great marks because the Olympics is in Sochi, in their home town, so they really need to have good results. And as we know the couple put very good performances, which was great, but some mistake was ignored by technical specialist and their marks surprisingly raised since NHK one week ago. And to my shock the person speaking there was one of judges who travelled there. So, that‘s international judging.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sisinka View Post
    Thanks to a fact that Alexeeva and Kustarova told openly in interview in April that they are waiting for Nikita and Vika’s explanation and final decision to let them (and Lena and Ruslan) solved everything what was needed, I don’t take it that Lena and Ruslan were not interested in things and just waited until Nikita‘s decision. They wanted to know as fast as possible how is situation looking like. But until Nikita‘s final decision both Lena and Ruslan had to wait. And why would be Nikita the first one and the only one to decide? How about Lena and Ruslan? After all those lies and unexpected surprises from Nikita and Vika, do you think that both Lena and Ruslan just waited and prayed that their partners would come back? After all of this? If they really wanted their partners back than they would never make a couple with each other and they would never prepared new programs so soon. Once Nikita decided to split a destroy another couple, all other three skaters should be free to make their decisions, they are all human ones with the same right, not Nikita on the first place and then others. This was not equal as well. And thanks to the fact that he was the one who caused all this situation, it was surprising that he was allowed to play the main role for whole time.
    I am not sure whether you have problems with comprehension, or where the problems is, but you completely missed the point. Let's explain it again:
    I am not saying that Lena and Ruslan were sitting around doing nothing, they were obviously skating together, but at the same time they were waiting what will be the news from Sinitsina/Katsalapov. They did not know whether their old partners will come back or whether this is not permanent move. (I am not saying they were praying for the partners to come back, but common sense would probably win over their feelings). So that would make them approach the Federation much later than Sinitsina/Katsalapov who actually knew that they are not coming back. While Lena and Ruslan were waiting for Sinitsina/Katsalapov to make up their mind, Sinitsina/Katsalapov approached the Federation and requested to be recognised as a new couple. The Federation announced them. As soon as Lena and Ruslan found out that this is it, they approached the Federation and the Federation announced them too. The Russian Federation could not announce Lena and Ruslan BEFORE Lena and Ruslan approached the Federation, and Lena and Ruslan did not approach the Federation earlier because they did not know what the outcome of the S/K's trial will be.

    In regards to your question why would be Nikita the first one and the only one to decide, well, Elena was willing to skate with him, and he was not willing to skate with her. That gave him the power. (No, it is not fair, but it all depended on his decision whether he will skate with her or not).

  6. #2796
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I am not sure whether you have problems with comprehension, or where the problems is, but you completely missed the point. Let's explain it again:
    I am not saying that Lena and Ruslan were sitting around doing nothing, they were obviously skating together, but at the same time they were waiting what will be the news from Sinitsina/Katsalapov. They did not know whether their old partners will come back or whether this is not permanent move. (I am not saying they were praying for the partners to come back, but common sense would probably win over their feelings). So that would make them approach the Federation much later than Sinitsina/Katsalapov who actually knew that they are not coming back. While Lena and Ruslan were waiting for Sinitsina/Katsalapov to make up their mind, Sinitsina/Katsalapov approached the Federation and requested to be recognised as a new couple. The Federation announced them. As soon as Lena and Ruslan found out that this is it, they approached the Federation and the Federation announced them too. The Russian Federation could not announce Lena and Ruslan BEFORE Lena and Ruslan approached the Federation, and Lena and Ruslan did not approach the Federation earlier because they did not know what the outcome of the S/K's trial will be.
    In regards to your question why would be Nikita the first one and the only one to decide, well, Elena was willing to skate with him, and he was not willing to skate with her. That gave him the power. (No, it is not fair, but it all depended on his decision whether he will skate with her or not).
    This is not true. I/Z skated for the Federation's representative in April, he recommended that their partnership was approved then. It was not at all dependent on what Nikita & Viktoria chose. Once S/K went to Zueva, the issue was not getting I/K back together because that was not an option, the only consideration was would I/Z & S/K work out as new couples or did they need to look further afield for other partners.

    The Federation didn't officially approve any of the new partnerships until the end of May, which is when the funding year ends. Lena & Ruslan weren't left waiting for their partners decisions, they were off preparing for the new season with Averbukh, and by that point it wasn't all in Nikita's hands because Elena would not have taken him back. The teams were approved at the same time with the same funding, you can see from the committee meetings notes of the RFSF on their website. You just hear about S/K more because Kustarova prefers to focus on the training on the ice rather than getting her teams mentioned in every sports media outlet.

  7. #2797
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    Quote Originally Posted by uhh View Post
    The Federation didn't officially approve any of the new partnerships until the end of May, which is when the funding year ends. Lena & Ruslan weren't left waiting for their partners decisions, they were off preparing for the new season with Averbukh, and by that point it wasn't all in Nikita's hands because Elena would not have taken him back. The teams were approved at the same time with the same funding, you can see from the committee meetings notes of the RFSF on their website. You just hear about S/K more because Kustarova prefers to focus on the training on the ice rather than getting her teams mentioned in every sports media outlet.
    Look at the earlier Kustarova's interviews. she stated that they can't make any decisions until they know what the outcome is. Elena and Ruslan were skating together, but until May they did not know whether this is permanent swap. They were working on their programs etc because it would be silly not to, but they were working while not knowing what the decision will be.

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    In the end Lena and Rus got their act together, it would seem, regardless of the perception of favoritism for S/K. While S/K's handlers have been talking to the press it would seem almost profusely, inclusive of Nikita patting himself on the back, I/Z's camp has just been more quiet. Others have been praising them. I get the sense that they plan to do all their talking on the ice. I don't think we should be overly concerned until we see them and how they're rewarded on the GP circuit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Look at the earlier Kustarova's interviews. she stated that they can't make any decisions until they know what the outcome is. Elena and Ruslan were skating together, but until May they did not know whether this is permanent swap. They were working on their programs etc because it would be silly not to, but they were working while not knowing what the decision will be.
    She was referring to funding, because they did not know if they were added to the national team or not until the end of May & so they didn't know which specialists they can afford to bring in & so on. Not whether they could skate together at all, the Federation was happy from the test skate they did in April, and neither they nor the RFSF were leaving their future in the hands of Nikita.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uhh View Post
    She was referring to funding, because they did not know if they were added to the national team or not until the end of May & so they didn't know which specialists they can afford to bring in & so on. Not whether they could skate together at all, the Federation was happy from the test skate they did in April, and neither they nor the RFSF were leaving their future in the hands of Nikita.
    We really ought to stop giving Nikita credit for such boorish behaviour. I don't believe for one minute the fed is going to be influenced by Zueva to support S/K more highly than I/Z unless the work warrants it. Nikita I firmly believe now greatly embarrassed certain persons in the russian ice dance community by how he handled things with Lena and by extension Ruslan. He came across as excessively ruthless and insensitive. IMHO, these are not the qualities of a great champion. If I were in Lena's shoes I wouldn't know how to appreciate the medals from Sochi in light of how things went down. IMHO, I would want to lay them aside and develop a new partnership geared at not only winning, but also being able to enjoy the fruits of such hard work. Lena and Roos have an excess of motivation, I don't think this should be overlooked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bramweld View Post
    We really ought to stop giving Nikita credit for such boorish behaviour. I don't believe for one minute the fed is going to be influenced by Zueva to support S/K more highly than I/Z unless the work warrants it. Nikita I firmly believe now greatly embarrassed certain persons in the russian ice dance community by how he handled things with Lena and by extension Ruslan. He came across as excessively ruthless and insensitive. IMHO, these are not the qualities of a great champion. If I were in Lena's shoes I wouldn't know how to appreciate the medals from Sochi in light of how things went down. IMHO, I would want to lay them aside and develop a new partnership geared at not only winning, but also being able to enjoy the fruits of such hard work. Lena and Roos have an excess of motivation, I don't think this should be overlooked.
    I agree with that. I do think they will come on top in the fight against S/K

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    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    Capellini/Lanotte need to establish themselves for number 1 too. Imagine critiques If they are not on the top after european and world titles season before. Why they did leave Igor?
    Yes indeed. That's why I'm saying that I doubt they would be Zueva's priority, given the fact that the she will want to make S&K a top russian couple ASAP.
    Anna&Luca went to her because she has power, I think. The choreography of the FS is done by Scali in anycase, so what they need from Zueva is her politicking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    Yes indeed. That's why I'm saying that I doubt they would be Zueva's priority, given the fact that the she will want to make S&K a top russian couple ASAP.
    Anna&Luca went to her because she has power, I think. The choreography of the FS is done by Scali in anycase, so what they need from Zueva is her politicking.
    Or maybe for a cosmetic facelift. They have been around for a while. Her power and brilliance hasn't done much for the Shibs. But this could have been intentional on her part. Their work looks much more impressive this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uhh View Post
    The Federation didn't officially approve any of the new partnerships until the end of May, which is when the funding year ends. Lena & Ruslan weren't left waiting for their partners decisions, they were off preparing for the new season with Averbukh, and by that point it wasn't all in Nikita's hands because Elena would not have taken him back. The teams were approved at the same time with the same funding, you can see from the committee meetings notes of the RFSF on their website. You just hear about S/K more because Kustarova prefers to focus on the training on the ice rather than getting her teams mentioned in every sports media outlet.
    Thanks for info, Uhh. I was looking for some documents as well.
    I found one which announced a Russian Fed meeting in 26 of May, where one of the topics were changes for skaters. Some day later there was published a letter with all changes done – but it was not about changes between couples and creating of new couples, it was only changes of clubs and coaches for skaters, which is not the same. And looking at other topics of that meeting, confirmation of new couples were never mentioned there.

    You noticed that changes coudn’t be done before 31th of May. I looked for articles and I found one with Gorshkov http://www.sports.ru/others/figure-s...159269500.html
    … where he says that changes must be done between 1st of April and 31th of May, not how you say – that it couldn’t be done before 31th of May. Gorshkov described 31th of May like deadline.
    I believe that funding year is good thing, but I think that it was destroyed in moment when both I&K and S&Z split – it happened when Vika and Nikita OFFICIALLY put request about new pairing (so they had to come to Russian Fed and brought them a document about it). Funding had no sense when couple already trained with new partners. And I am sure that every contract about funding between Fed and skaters has its rules in case of a split…because try to imagine situation that the contract would be signed 1st of June and some couple would stop skating together 1st of August, but thanks to a contract they would be both given money for support for the rest of the season until 31th of May – it would give no sense.

    My meaning of official confirmation which I was writing about – I meant exactly only announcement to the press about allowing both new couples, just to be sure that couples can skate together, I didn’t mean all documents signed about it. I expected that this announcement will be done in one day for both couples. It didn’t happen. On the contrary with Hanca, I never believed even for one minute that Lena or Ruslan were not serious about their new couple, that they secretly wished their ex-partners to come back – and all what Lena and Ruslan and their coaches did allowed me to think that I am right, that they wanted to make a new pair and were sure about it very quickly.
    If any contract about funding needed time, OK, I only wanted both couples to get the same chance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I am not sure whether you have problems with comprehension, or where the problems is, but you completely missed the point. Let's explain it again:
    I am not saying that Lena and Ruslan were sitting around doing nothing, they were obviously skating together, but at the same time they were waiting what will be the news from Sinitsina/Katsalapov. They did not know whether their old partners will come back or whether this is not permanent move. (I am not saying they were praying for the partners to come back, but common sense would probably win over their feelings). So that would make them approach the Federation much later than Sinitsina/Katsalapov who actually knew that they are not coming back. While Lena and Ruslan were waiting for Sinitsina/Katsalapov to make up their mind, Sinitsina/Katsalapov approached the Federation and requested to be recognised as a new couple. The Federation announced them. As soon as Lena and Ruslan found out that this is it, they approached the Federation and the Federation announced them too. The Russian Federation could not announce Lena and Ruslan BEFORE Lena and Ruslan approached the Federation, and Lena and Ruslan did not approach the Federation earlier because they did not know what the outcome of the S/K's trial will be.

    In regards to your question why would be Nikita the first one and the only one to decide, well, Elena was willing to skate with him, and he was not willing to skate with her. That gave him the power. (No, it is not fair, but it all depended on his decision whether he will skate with her or not).
    After Nikita and Vika run away without real explanation, both Lena and Ruslan were repeatedly showing that they want to be approved like new couple...
    ….around 7th of April both Lena and Ruslan announced that they will skate together
    …15th of April the head coach Stifunin was invited at practise, he promised to give good recommendations in front of Russian Fed
    …a journalist Vaitsekhovskaya was invited to come at practise to see a new couple
    …a photographer is invited to make a photoshoots from practise
    …23th of May Ilia Averbukh says that he is already working with Lena and Ruslan and prepare new FD…

    Hanca, if you are not sure about new dance partner, you are not behaving like that. No skater prepares new competitive programs and invites specialists and journalists at practise while he/she is not sure who he/she WANTS to skate with. I can accept the idea that two dancers without partners are skating together and trying steps and compulsory dances not to forget how skating with partner looks like. But in moments when competive programs and all round showing to specialists start – it is visible that Lena & Ruslan wanted to skate together, not to wait if their partners will change their minds…

    And let’s look at Russian Fed behaviour
    …in moment when Lena and Ruslan announced that they will skate together in 7th of April – Piseev was almost rude to Ruslan saying that Ruslan’s private wishes doesn’t speak about anything…
    …11th of April Gorshkov announced that Nikita and Vika did an official request to skate together, but he (Gorshkov) wants to let them skate, let them try together and then the decision will be done, he gives them THREE WEEKS
    …Zueva changes three weeks to four weeks…
    …22th of April Gorshkov says that decision about Lena’s partner will be done in months probably, he says that changing partners is a difficult process, it needs time to try and see if things go well…

    It is strange that while head coach Stifunin saw the couple 15th of May and he liked the couple and promised to tell Russian Fed only positive things, one week later Gorshkov still looks like that time for try-out is needed? Why, when Lena & Ruslan were looking OK? In my opinion he was waiting for Nikita, because nobody from Russian Federation saw him with Vika, and Russian Fed was probably hoped (in very naive way), that Nikita will come back to Lena, so Gorshkov didn’t even mention that Lena and Ruslan will be a new couple…

    And look at Nikita
    …around 4th of April he says to Lena that he will no longer skate with her
    …11th of April he and Vika made an official request for becoming new couple
    …13th of April Zueva announces that the couple is coming to her for try-out
    …since that time once a week Zueva sings a romantic songs about S&K – their perspectives, their beauty, their speed, their eyes
    …16th of April media announces new couple – S&K
    …since 28th of May all Vika, Zueva and Nikita speaks in superlatives about themselves

    In which moment could Russian Fed have any idea that Nikita may change his opinion? So why should Lena & Ruslan couldn’t be allowed by Fed to skate together like new couple after head coach saw them and liked them? Why they had to wait until Zueva and Fed were sure that Nikita can some way skate with Vika?

    Uhh mentioned that no couple was officially confirmed (signed documents about funding probably), OK, but S&K were announced like new couple 19th of May, so even before 31th of May. Why I&Z couldn’t be announced in press after head coach saw them? Why they were finally announced 4th of June, which was 4 days after deadline?

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