04-12-2014, 07:14 AM
There is no way there is any ice dancer more stunning than Elena ATM in my opion
04-12-2014, 07:58 AM
What is happening to Elena and Ruslan? These two are very good skaters as well. Are they training together? How long will S/K be observed? Surely they cannot reach I/K level in a few weeks, so will they at least allow both pairs to serve a full season together and then the Federation and only them decides their fate at the end of the season? Only this really seems fair...IMHO.
Tangoer, if you even forget about beauty and just look at her skating skills she is a gem. As Victoria says the reasons for this are personal. I just want I/Z to be taken care of. They have earned that at the very least.
04-12-2014, 08:11 AM
Wicked Yankee Girl
This discussion about who looks well with whom does bring up a question: Ice dance is more technical today than in the past, and there is great emphasis on equal skills for the partners. Shouldn't the first question in setting up a pair be which two skaters have equal potential, and ability to execute required elements, and only secondarily which 2 would look well together?
The long interview with Zoueva reminds me that in the day, many thought Meryl Davis was too short legged and was not pretty enough to succeed in ice dance. Marina, in the interview, pats herself on the back for seeing Meryl's potential and for changing the hair color and look of D&W. Moral: looks can be altered, but talent and willingness to work and attention to detail are harder to come by.
04-12-2014, 08:21 AM
Precisely dorispulaski, it is very short sighted to support a pair primarily on looks, it takes so much more than that.
They need to inform the public though about I/Z's options. Unless of course, Katsalapov's arrogance is noted within the community and Gorshkov is just giving him rope to "hang himself", so to speak. Personally though if I were Elena I would wash my hands of him. But I still feel there is MUCH we just do not know...
04-12-2014, 08:44 AM
I don’t know who you and sky_fly are…I am definitely not interested to know if you are girl/boy or anything else, but I would like to know if you are coach/skater/baker or anything what is far from skating/dancing. So, if you don’t understand that dancers should dance and keep the rhythm, they should also change the style of dancing with different music/story, they should finish all movements, they should keep great postures (plus knee action and extended free leg)….if you don’t understand that this is a part of dancers job…then I don’t know how to explain you my way of thinking.
Originally Posted by elif
If you have an effort than take Lena to Bukin or to whoever else…from my personal opinion she has great skating skills (and I wrote this always) and Bukin has very good skating skills, but worse than Lena and Zhiganshin and some others. Lena is faster than Bukin, but of course with millions cross-overs it will not be a problem to keep her speed for Bukin. Bukin is better lifter than Zhiganshin. And Zhiganshin is about 100% beter dancer than Bukin. But it is not only Bukin - Katsalapov, Soloviev and Khaliavin are better dancers also – in terms of expressing music/story. Katsalapov, Soloviev and Khaliavin are better lifters than Bukin.
But I remain…couple Lena with whoever you want.
I never wrote than Lena or Bukin would be bad dancers, I compared them with the best skaters I know from all years, I always do it. Lena is missing some things to be like Navka/Krylova/Domnina/Annisina/Virtue. Bukin is missing another things and his path is longer than in Lena’s case to be like Moir/Platov/Staviski/Shabalin etc.
It is not my fault that Bukin skates in Russia and there are some dancers who are better than he is. And believe me or not it is not just Zhiganshin. But of course if Bukin would be skating for France, he would be probably the best dancer there (after P&B finishing career).
My dear Elif the lifts are not done by girl who lifts herself….my poor boy…of course it is a man who lifts her…but she can help him to get into the position which is needed…and my God, she must be as strengthened as possible to help him to get into position and change all positions.
Compare how easily Alexandra gets on Paul’s shoulder and compare it with Lena who waits until Nikita gets her on his shoulder…
Compare how easily and how much strengthened is Alexandra with perfectly extended legs – how much easily she gets into a position, while Lena waits what he will do – how Nikita will lift her…
Compare how is Alexandra taking off from standing leg while once again Lena waits for Nikita who will lift her without her doing anything than just holding her blade…
Don‘t you really see the difference in Alexandra and Lena’s approach??? Don‘t you really see that Alexandra is actively helping Paul with lifts – take off, getting into the position, balancing it, changing position…while Lena waits all the time what will Nikita do with her???
Don’t you see it?
Of course Ruslan would be in trouble to lift Lena, but he is a fighter. But frankly everybody (really everybody) would be in trouble to lift Lena and everybody would prefer to lift Alexandra, because Lena has no lift habits – how this fact is connected with your comment about me I really don’t know. If Lena wants to be good in lifts, she must learn what to do in lifts and how to help a partner, that is all.
04-12-2014, 08:52 AM
Could it be that this is something that Lena needs to be taught with regard to lifts? She appears to be getting stronger with each season. Luckily for them though there is one fewer lift this season and they could opt for the choreographic spin rather than the lift right?
Or could this be the approach that both of them agreed upon? Elena is not as light as Alexandra so it will be more challenging for her to do these complex lifts. Further her positions in lifts have always been steadily improving. It is only this season that I/K really began to make progress on their lifts. P/I have had no such problems in the past. Their issues have been footwork sequences and twizzles IIRC.
04-12-2014, 08:55 AM
This is not precise (like always), I liked I&K very much with Schindler’s List and their Sikuriadas 2009/10 OD, that season I&K and M&K looked like next N&K and D&S or other past top Russian dancers. But since they run to Morozov, they changed into some superficial Morozov’s product (but great skating skills remained), all mistakes which were partly hidden by Zhulin’s choreo suddenly came on light and didn’t improve until this time.
Originally Posted by elif
I like I&K for great skating skills, costumes, twizzles (when it works), but no way to love them for lifts, for not ideal posture, out of rhythm issues, poor expression of ballroom and music/story. That is all, why is it so big problem in your eyes and in the same moment you don’t care about many people criticising Meryl and Charlie for many things….so you are probably not a man fighting for human rights, but a fan of I&K who can’t see anything what is not perfect in this couple. Love them if you want, no problem, but I am used to judge different things – skating and dancing and the couple is not perfect in all of it.
If Lena will learn better postures and keep the rhythm, if she will improve in expressing music with Ruslan (or anybody else), I will certainly notice it and write it, no problem. But for me first she must learn it and execute it and then I will admire it…
For Birds story – I wrote that choreography was extremely difficult and that I don’t know anyone except V&M who would be able to skate such difficult program. I wrote that a story is visible and making bird movements means completely different work of body and arms…I don’t know about any other couple who would be forced to change their skating style this season during two days in two programs, yes, P&B had completely different approach in both dances.
I don’t like Bobrova’s posture which she has sometimes…like I don’t like Nikita’s head forward…why you and others criticise Bobrova and not Nikita – that is a mystery for me. What else don’t you like on Birds? Many people (probably you including) wrote that the program is ugly, ugly, ugly. Why? Bobrova’s posture? What else? Bad choice of music? But original music was different, with criticism of music – turn to Russian Federation and Tarasova who love so much to change Zhulin’s ideas. What else – dog‘s and bird‘s sound? But it is a bird story, what is so strange to hear bird‘s sound in it, when it is ABOUT BIRDS? And you never saw a bird’s reaction to dog’s bark, you never saw birds flying away when ANY LOUD SOUND is on? In what planet do you live then?
And what else do you want to criticise on that program? And forget about words like ugly, bad, strange etc. …explain it what EXACTLY you don’t like. Then we can talk about it.
And by the way, why do you talk about my previous comments, this is topic with different ideas, and as I remember I didn’t write anything sooo negative on Lena here, why do you still come back to it?
04-12-2014, 09:01 AM
Yes, one less lift is a help. And making spin instead of lift is another help.
Originally Posted by bramweld
What I don't really understand is that all top couples worked with lift specialists....but Lena has no habits, so probably nobody explained her how to do it better, they only showed her a position and bye.
Both Lena and Nikita improved as to lifts, but they still need to improve much, both of them.
Acrobatic lifts are not connected with dancing in my opinion, but once ISU judging system wants it, then it is important to learn it...and to learn it well. So, a lot of work must be done for all four - Victoria, Lena, Ruslan and Nikita.
04-12-2014, 09:09 AM
Look at Russian lifts in general, they are not the cream of the crop. This is one of the reasons voiced by Katsalapov for their exodus from Zhulin, the lack of experts in this area. The Americans and Canadians seem to have access to the more superior technicians in this regard. However the junior pair of Y/M in Kustarova's group were good. So there is hope for Ruslan, if he's able to improve strengthwise.
04-12-2014, 09:10 AM
It is always a help if partners are equal in terms of skating skills, everything goes more easy then.
Originally Posted by dorispulaski
I agree that looks can be altered, especially in girl's case. Make-up can add from 5 to 10 years, especially if you chose a vamp look. With appropriate make-up both Lena and Victoria can look like quite innocent and kind girls, and after changing make-up like Femme Fatale. Today there are many things possible with make-up.
All four skaters have very similar skating skills, so I don't think that would be some problem in edges. But open holds / close holds, spacing between partners, step before elements, lifts - this is a question - both couples had different style in this. Temperament and expression - that is another question also.
04-12-2014, 09:16 AM
Originally Posted by anyanka
Nothing new in this video, the commentator repeated only what Gorshkov said on Friday, that Viki and Nikita asked for allowing them to be a couple, they got time for tryout. Some sentences from Lena by phone, that she doesn't want to comment it. That is all.
04-12-2014, 09:51 AM
Mozgov amongst the tallest Russian Ice Dancer along with Soloviev
Originally Posted by bramweld
Ruslan is not !
04-12-2014, 09:55 AM
My Russian is not very good so I might have misunderstood - did she really say "It's not official yet ?" I worry if she is thinking like this or somehow hoping that he will come back to her.
Originally Posted by sisinka
04-12-2014, 09:55 AM
Doris - You are so right!! I know exactly which article you're speaking of; and I have to agree with Marina. She did well at transforming and using both D/W and V/M's strengths to their utmost. And the part about Meryl not being pretty enough is just so crazy. She's gorgeous - in a totally non-traditional way. Besides the fact that beauty is in the eye of the beholder - and some people have a beauty that is more than surface deep that just radiates.
Originally Posted by dorispulaski
I hate how in this thread Elena and Victoria's looks just keep getting picked apart. They're both extremely pretty girls in different ways. And the fact that Elena is getting called "fat" is funny imo - I can think of a few female ice dancers that have done well that definitely are her size or a little bigger. AND - If she's gained weight, it may be because she's getting a little older or it may be because she was under extreme stress and upset training in the situation she was in. Stress releases a hormone and can cause a perfectly normally thin girl to pack on the pounds.
I hope that Elena gets paired with someone that brings her and himself to their fullest potential. IMO, she just has pretty and technically good skills on the ice, so I'd love to see her be able to reach the success she could. (Granted, I think she needs to leave any diva-like tendencies at the door - but maybe with a new partner and/or coach this wouldn't be an issue. Crazier things have happened.)
04-12-2014, 10:03 AM
True sky_fly20, however look at what H/B the junior champions were able to do, despite not have the best lifts or the ideal size differential. They are beautiful to watch and could be a force to be reckoned with. This is why the fed is treating S/K with kid gloves. They are trying to be as objective as possible and allow them themselves to come to the most sensible decision. Ice-dance outside of Russia is VERY strong now. So the fed is treading VERY carefully. This is why TAT is so mad, because Victoria and Nikita are making this a personal thing, it cannot be! I/K represented a significant investment to the fed. Essentially these two have spat in the face of their very federation, but they don't even have the brains to recognise this.