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Thread: Elena Ilinykh & Nikita Katsalapov Split

  1. #1276
    Tripping on the Podium
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    can someone please send me an email on here with a quick summary of what is going on with these two? it's impossible to follow.

    i like them and can't believe they're going to split if true.

  2. #1277
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Well, it could for example be like this:
    Katsalapov insisting that he wants to skate with Sinitsina. Federation hoping he will change his mind if he realises how much work is involved (that they would have to start from the beginning). So the Federation could have said - OK, this is the deal: you go with Sinitsina to Zoueva, (you pay for it because we can't fund you at the moment), you spend there three weeks and after those three weeks Zoueva will send us a report. If Zoueva will report that the partnership may have potentially a future, we will give you approval for skating with Sinitsina (but not funding until you earn your spot at the national team). If Zoueva reports that it won't work, we want you to return to Ilynikh (or we will find you another partner), otherwise we will guarantee you that we won't submit your name for any GP event and you won't get any funding in the future because we won't let you get on the national team. Easy!

    Also, you wondering why S/K were sent to Zoueva and I/Z are not having the same opportunity - have you considered that perhaps Ruslan and Elena sat down and though about what coach they want. Ruslan may have wanted to stay with his coach, Elena had a good experience with Kustarova because she trained there last year in spring when Morozov traveled to Japan, so she could have said 'fine, let's try, if I don't like it, we can change coach later'. So it could have been I/Z choice to stay in Russia, whereas S/K were sent on trial.
    Yes, this would be OK, I hope that people from Federation have the same way of thinking.

    I prefer I&Z's style to stay at home - I refuse to think that Zueva is the only one who can say whether skaters have potential, it can do anybody from top Russian coaches in Russia, there is no reason why to come to US and for three weeks to see whether they are compatible. Kustarova is great choice - and it would be much better to send BOTH teams to her for tryouts and then decide (and tryouts could last few days only). And there is already first problem, while I&Z will be judged by whole Federation and by everybody who will come to practise in Moscow and their progress will be under control from the first week, S&K will be judges firstly by Zueva (after three weeks of work + those tryouts before the whole world discovered that they are a new couple), and believe me that she will talk in superlatives, so her words will look stronger than those words Kustarova said, in the same moment Zueva will be no idea how is I&Z, so no comparison here), than S&K will be judges by specialists who will be already influnced by Zueva's words. If Russian Federation really wanted some tryout period for only looking for compatibility, working ethic and speed of learning new elements...than make those couple separate and give them different possibilities is not the most wise. And if this is just tryout and Nikita persist on Zueva and Federation agreed, so why not immediately from the beginning listen to Nikita in everything and making this team official, when Nikita wants it. How do you want to control training process and watch progress in couple when they are three weeks off...and Zueva knows her job very well, but she has their own motives to support promising couple and no possibility to compare with I&Z, and right now even no possibility to compare with another top Russian couples. So, already from the beginning this is far to objective to make any wise conclusion. Why Russian Federation just couldn't put both new couples on one place with one coach for three days, with three practises per day...and then just decide - yes, no...and let people work and prepare for next season?

  3. #1278
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    Quote Originally Posted by sisinka View Post
    Yes, this would be OK, I hope that people from Federation have the same way of thinking.

    I prefer I&Z's style to stay at home - I refuse to think that Zueva is the only one who can say whether skaters have potential, it can do anyboody from top Russian coaches in Russia, there is no reason why to come to US and for three weeks to see whether they are compatible. Kustarova is great choice - and it would be much better to send BOTH teams to her for tryouts and then decide (and tryouts could last few days only). And there is already first problem, while I&Z will be judged by whole Federation and by everybody who will come to practise in Moscow and their progress will be under control from the first week, S&K will be judges firstly by Zueva (after three weeks of work + those tryouts before the whole world discovered that they are a new couple), and believe me that she will talk in superlatives, so her words will look stronger than those words Kustarova said, in the same moment Zueva will be no idea how is I&Z, so no comparison here), than S&K will be judges by specialists who will be already influnced by Zueva's words. If Russian Federation really wanted some tryout period for only looking for compatibility, working ethic and speed of learning new elements...than make those couple separate and give them different possibilities is not the most wise. And if this is just tryout and Nikita persist on Zueva and Federation agreed, so why not immediately from the beginning listen to Nikita in everything and making this team official, when Nikita wants it. How do you want to control training process and watch progress in couple when they are three weeks off...and Zueva knows her job very well, but she has their own motives to support promising couple and no possibility to compare with I&Z, and right now even no possibility to compare with another top Russian couples. So, already from the beginning this is far to objective to make any wise conclusion. Why Russian Federation just couldn't put both new couples on one place with one coach for three days, with three practises per day...and then just decide - yes, no...and let people work and prepare for next season?
    Simply put they may be stroking a number of egos, Nikita, his parents maybe. If this really is just a tryout they will need to skate side by side at the end of it. My only problem is what if Lena and Ruslan look more promising than Vic and Nik and neither of them wants to take back their old partners. LOL. Only time will solve this mystery of russian ice dance. Why do they always bring unnecessary DRAMA?

  4. #1279
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    Quote Originally Posted by sisinka View Post
    I refuse to think that Zueva is the only one who can say whether skaters have potential, it can do anybody from top Russian coaches in Russia, there is no reason why to come to US and for three weeks to see whether they are compatible.
    Agreed.

    And there is already first problem, while I&Z will be judged by whole Federation and by everybody who will come to practise in Moscow and their progress will be under control from the first week, S&K will be judges firstly by Zueva (after three weeks of work + those tryouts before the whole world discovered that they are a new couple), and believe me that she will talk in superlatives, so her words will look stronger than those words Kustarova said, in the same moment Zueva will be no idea how is I&Z, so no comparison here), than S&K will be judges by specialists who will be already influnced by Zueva's words.
    I never thought about this, but I fully agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    You can't have equal chances for everybody though. I mean the Fed will always give more support to the couple that they judge as the better couple, more talented etc.
    And this situation can be difficult to resolve within a country and can lead to fighting between the fanbases of each couple. We've seen it here in Canada where there is a close rivalry between Gilles & Poirier and Paul & Islam and in the U.S. where there is a close rivalry between The Shibutanis and Chock & Bates.

    How do you determine which couple is better in each case? Which couple should get more support? They should all be treated equally, but it can vary from event to event and from season to season.

  6. #1281
    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan O View Post
    How do you determine which couple is better in each case? Which couple should get more support?
    Well, talent and skills, potential is more or less easy to be identified. Most important though are the results and the progress for each couple.
    It's like Ashley and Mirai if you like.
    Anyway, if you are a big fed. and have just 2 or 3 good couples it's not difficult to treat them equally I suppose. I see more problems with the women in Russia. There will be a bloodshed.

  7. #1282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan O View Post
    And this situation can be difficult to resolve within a country and can lead to fighting between the fanbases of each couple. We've seen it here in Canada where there is a close rivalry between Gilles & Poirier and Paul & Islam and in the U.S. where there is a close rivalry between The Shibutanis and Chock & Bates.

    How do you determine which couple is better in each case? Which couple should get more support? They should all be treated equally, but it can vary from event to event and from season to season.
    If everyone were treated equally, it wouldn't be a competition...

    I think whoever comes up with the best program package as well as the best execution of it deserves the most support.

    If Paul and Islam do another Voir-esque program and Gilles and Poirier do another brilliant program like Hitchcock, then of course G&P deserve higher placement.

  8. #1283
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    Quote Originally Posted by sisinka View Post
    Yes, this would be OK, I hope that people from Federation have the same way of thinking.

    I prefer I&Z's style to stay at home - I refuse to think that Zueva is the only one who can say whether skaters have potential, it can do anybody from top Russian coaches in Russia, there is no reason why to come to US and for three weeks to see whether they are compatible. Kustarova is great choice - and it would be much better to send BOTH teams to her for tryouts and then decide (and tryouts could last few days only). And there is already first problem, while I&Z will be judged by whole Federation and by everybody who will come to practise in Moscow and their progress will be under control from the first week, S&K will be judges firstly by Zueva (after three weeks of work + those tryouts before the whole world discovered that they are a new couple), and believe me that she will talk in superlatives, so her words will look stronger than those words Kustarova said, in the same moment Zueva will be no idea how is I&Z, so no comparison here), than S&K will be judges by specialists who will be already influnced by Zueva's words. If Russian Federation really wanted some tryout period for only looking for compatibility, working ethic and speed of learning new elements...than make those couple separate and give them different possibilities is not the most wise. And if this is just tryout and Nikita persist on Zueva and Federation agreed, so why not immediately from the beginning listen to Nikita in everything and making this team official, when Nikita wants it. How do you want to control training process and watch progress in couple when they are three weeks off...and Zueva knows her job very well, but she has their own motives to support promising couple and no possibility to compare with I&Z, and right now even no possibility to compare with another top Russian couples. So, already from the beginning this is far to objective to make any wise conclusion. Why Russian Federation just couldn't put both new couples on one place with one coach for three days, with three practises per day...and then just decide - yes, no...and let people work and prepare for next season?
    "it would be much better to send BOTH teams to her for tryouts and then decide" - better for whom? Have you considered that Elena or Ruslan may be so angry with their past partners that the last thing they want to is to see them every day and train with them (even temporarily) on the same ice? I think it would be extremely unfair towards them; how could you expect I/Z to put behind their feeliongs and concentrate on work if they had S/K in front of their eyes? If you are dumped by your husband/partner, would you want to see him every day even for the next week, two or three, or would you prefer to have some time off? I think in the future they will be seeing S/K during competition and they would have already moved on, but at this moment I don't think they have any intention at all to be seeing S/K anywhere near them.

    Zueva is probably not the only one that can say whether the couple has potential. It may be that S/K chose her (if they are paying, why shouldn't they choose who is going to coach them?). Or maybe if it was arranged in advance that I/K would move to her after worlds, the Federation decided that this is where S/K will go for their tryout. Or it could be that she currently doesn't have any top pairs, she has time because her skaters either retired or are doing shows in the summer, so why not Zueva? Whether Zueva will be talking about them in superlative - I think the matter is not as simple. She is currently without a top pair, so she probably would be interested in them and could report to the Federation how great they are. On the other hand, then she would be risking that the Federation leaves them with her and then what? If they are not great together, they are going to be constantly beaten by other Russian couples including I/Z and then Zueva is risking her name, her reputation. Is Zueva really that great when she doesn't have Spilband? I know that V/M and D/W kept winning, but they got on that high level while Spilband was still there, so Zueva was still benefiting from their joint work. Is Zueva capable to bring up a couple to that high level by herself? I am sure if Zueva thinks that she can't do it, she will rather say that they don't fit together, rather then risking her reputation by taking this project on and failing.

  9. #1284
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    The Shibs with all due respect is a better representation of her capabilities. Working with others is difficult at times, but I must say that Igor and Marina are a much better combination than each separately. Right now I really like the work done by the Canadian team that coaches Diaz and Hurtado. Stellar!!

    Kustarova can do good work when inspired. I liked B/S's 2010 OG FD and their Chess SD 2011 maybe? She just needs better consistency and better packaging for her skaters. Hopefully she will evolve or at the very least seek help. It's about time that she have a stellar pair with everyone leaving her. I also believe she did a better job with Ksenia Monko and partner than Zhulin did.

  10. #1285
    EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA CaroLiza_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingJackson View Post
    can someone please send me an email on here with a quick summary of what is going on with these two? it's impossible to follow.

    i like them and can't believe they're going to split if true.
    I think we could all do with one of those e-mails! I gave up trying to keep up about 30 pages ago!

    Well, I really like them as well. But, given the complicated personal relations between Nikita, Elena and Nikolai, I am surprised that it has lasted this long!

    I just wish somebody - be it the skaters themselves, the coaches or the Federation - would put out an official announcement as to what exactly is going to happen.

    CaroLiza_fan

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    I believe Gorshkov said S/K would be spending some time with Zoueva and some time with another coach, so the decision on whether it is working is not solely up to her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uhh View Post
    I believe Gorshkov said S/K would be spending some time with Zoueva and some time with another coach, so the decision on whether it is working is not solely up to her.
    My understanding was that they spend 3 weeks with Zueva to tryout, but that in the future they may not stay with Zueva (that it may be either Zueva or another coach)

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    My understanding was that they spend 3 weeks with Zueva to tryout, but that in the future they may not stay with Zueva (that it may be either Zueva or another coach)
    Exactly his words were: “They will try with one coach, then, maybe with another coach.“ So, we can imagine what we want under it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    "it would be much better to send BOTH teams to her for tryouts and then decide" - better for whom? Have you considered that Elena or Ruslan may be so angry with their past partners that the last thing they want to is to see them every day and train with them (even temporarily) on the same ice? I think it would be extremely unfair towards them; how could you expect I/Z to put behind their feeliongs and concentrate on work if they had S/K in front of their eyes? If you are dumped by your husband/partner, would you want to see him every day even for the next week, two or three, or would you prefer to have some time off? I think in the future they will be seeing S/K during competition and they would have already moved on, but at this moment I don't think they have any intention at all to be seeing S/K anywhere near them.
    I would prefer to make their chances equal, which means both couples on one place being judged by the same specialists in the same moment. Both couples doesn’t need a coach for simple tryout – specialists can tell them what steps they want to see from them. I can imagine that feelings of I&Z towards Viki & Nikita are not the best (not only right know, but forever). But we are talking about TRYOUT – which is some necessary short period of time during which specialists decide about making a new couples or not. (If Lena or Nikita cried and run away there would be still a possibility to make practises one after another to allow kids not to meet on ice in the same moment, but I expect that after so many years in the figure skating world – there is some sort of professionalism in everybody.) Or do you think that Riazanova after matching with Tkachenko run away from test skate while Guereiro was entering the ice rink? Certainly no.
    What is S&K doing with Zueva – that is a training camp. Personally I think that Zueva would be a great choice for S&K, so I am fully for her training them (but unfortunately paying her with money from region and parents).

    But we are talking about TRYOUT, which is not done like three weeks training camp. Time is running, other top couples are making programs, preparing plans for next season. New couples will have 3 times more work in front of themselves, because they are not used to each other. New couples simply don’t have time to stay and wait until tryout = training camp will end. Did you count how many days it means? S&K will return around 4th of May, few days will take test skate – maybe 2-3 days, some day/days for making final decision…so it can be around 10th of May when couples will get to know if they can skate together. Then they will start to look for suitable music, choreographer, training camps etc..it is too late.

    Having two days in Moscow with all specialists, 3 practises per day…after 2 days a resume by Russian Federation…and then every couple would go to any coach they will able to persuade, no problem…Why is Russian Federation behaving in such slow way….it is hurting both couples, for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    That's fine. What I don't understand is are they waiting to see if S&K are suitable before giving the approval to I&Z, or they are also monitoring I&Z? How much time do you need to see if a couple is suitable or not?
    If I'm not mistaken I&Z have applied officially to the federation, right?
    What is Russian Federation expecting I don't know. What is the difference betweeen 2 days and 3 weeks of practise?
    Having new couple…you need 1 minute to see if a couple looks well (face, body building), another 1 minute for looking at speed of skating separately – during warm-up, 5 minutes for comparing edges and skating skills when skaters skate separately but doing the same steps on the same side of ice rink. And you need 30 minutes to try skating in close holds and elements – twizzles side by side, if you want – spin also. Off the ice – you need from 5 to 10 minutes to look if a partner is able to lift his new lady. And that’s all.
    After one practise you have an idea (but you can’t be sure) whether a couple is compatible or not. You can take next practise the same day and one practise next day to confirm your idea. You don’t need more. Of course you can’t expect something perfect – they are two people who will learn to know each other for next few months, years – this process of feeling your partner greatly takes long time. A couple will need a half year to execute new lifts well (in case of S&K and I&Z longer). At least a half year to see good synchronization, same movements of legs, arms. Not sooner than 2-3 months to see whether is a couple able to express the music together (in moment when they will be sure that they will not stumble across each other they will suddenly start to concentrate on expressing the music more).

    So what is Russian Federation think 3 weeks can solve? OK, Zueva will learn S&K one interesting lift for wow efect and one spectacular step sequence with some toe-pick and running steps to hide a fact that they will be losing speed together (because every new couple loses speed until they start to move like one in the same rhythm and stop pushing each other in different direction).

    Personally I am sure that all four skaters having almost the same speed, deep edges and deep knee’s action will fit each other and I also expect that a feeling from both couples will be very good. To expect anything more after 2 days or 3 weeks of “tryout“= training camp doesn’t have sense, it is too early. And to expect that new born couples will look as good as previous couples after 3 weeks of tryout is just ridiculous.

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