Savchenko and Massot team up

pangtongfan · Mar 29, 2014

Amei said:
But S/Z were more artistic then S/S; S/S to me was more about the difficult elements, which get more difficult to accomplish with age.

I dont agree S&Z are more artistic than S&S. S&Z had to develop great artistry over time, and S&S were almost from the start. S&S did more creative and interesting programs, and in terms of unision, extension, line, while they might not be quite on par with V&T they are still clearly above even the matured version of S&Z.

The only problem with S&S is for all their technical abilities and artistic boldness and innovation they never had the consistency and mental toughness to really dominate the way teams like Totmianina & Marinin, Shen & Zhao, and Voloszhar & Trankov recently have. They just made too many mistakes and too few totally clean performances to do that. Yeah I know they have won 5 worlds but that is mostly when their main competition wasnt even there (eg- Shen & Zhao were at none of the 5 worlds they won, V&T were only at 2 of the 5, one months after becoming a team and in their debut event, and the other where they finished 8th in the short program). They never really felt like the dominant team, atleast without a little caveat such as "what if Shen & Zhao come back". It is pretty shocking for a 5 time world champion to have never gone into the Olympics as the gold medal favorite.

Alba · Mar 29, 2014

pangtongfan said:
I dont agree S&Z are more artistic than S&S. S&Z had to develop great artistry over time, and S&S were almost from the start. S&S did more creative and interesting programs, and in terms of unision, extension, line, while they might not be quite on par with V&T they are still clearly above even the matured version of S&Z.

The only problem with S&S is for all their technical abilities and artistic boldness and innovation they never had the consistency and mental toughness to really dominate the way teams like Totmianina & Marinin, Shen & Zhao, and Voloszhar & Trankov recently have. They just made too many mistakes and too few totally clean performances to do that. Yeah I know they have won 5 worlds but that is mostly when their main competition wasnt even there (eg- Shen & Zhao were at none of the 5 worlds they won, V&T were only at 2 of the 5, one months after becoming a team and in their debut event, and the other where they finished 8th in the short program). They never really felt like the dominant team, atleast without a little caveat such as "what if Shen & Zhao come back". It is pretty shocking for a 5 time world champion to have never gone into the Olympics as the gold medal favorite.

I agree. :thumbsup:

skatefan02 · Mar 29, 2014

Alba said:
Although Dimitriev did it so who knows...but for him it was his third Olympics, for her would be the fourth time.

Wouldn't it be her fifth time? She competed with Stanislav Morozov in 2002 for Ukraine.

Ziggy · Mar 29, 2014

bekalc said:
That really kind of bothers me. That she'd just dump Germany like that.

Steuer cannot receive any state funding because of not revealing his Stasi past.

The French Federation has promised to pay for everything.

According to the article in Bild, they still haven't decided on which country to represent, though. Maybe they are using this as a bargaining chip to make Steuer eligible for the funding again.

noidont said:
I think the person who suffers the most is Robin. No chance he is going to cash out on shows anymore.

She will continue to do shows with Szolkowy. They have signed a three-year contract with Art on Ice.

alopatra said:
Obviously, Daria couldn't get the French citizenship before Sochi because France requires the applicants to live in France at least for 5 years.
http://www.sportacaen.fr/index.php?...ova-et-bruno-massot&catid=11:divers&Itemid=87
Daria knew that she doesn't meet this requirement but still applied hoping she could get an exception because of the olympics but she did not. So, if it didn't work for Daria, how can it work out for Aliona?

Popova is Russian. Savchenko is German. It's much easier for a EU citizen to obtain citizenship of another EU country. Also, French Federation really wants Savchenko and they would probably pull some strings.

Amei said:
But S/Z were more artistic then S/S; S/S to me was more about the difficult elements, which get more difficult to accomplish with age.

S/S have really pushed the boundaries and have had the most difficult and creative programs ever performed in Pair skating, IMO.

What pangtongfan has said. They definitely had 'the whole package' but have lacked consistency.

pangtongfan · Mar 29, 2014

Ziggy, what do you think they can achieve in this particular partnership. Do you think Massot & Savchenko have a chance to be good enough as a team to win the next Olympics, or would the bronze medal be a more realistic target for them by then?

Ziggy · Mar 30, 2014

pangtongfan said:
Ziggy, what do you think they can achieve in this particular partnership. Do you think Massot & Savchenko have a chance to be good enough as a team to win the next Olympics, or would the bronze medal be a more realistic target for them by then?

I think that Olympic gold is extremely unlikely, regardless of the partner. She definitely deserves it but it just wasn't meant to be.

As far as Massot is concerned, from what I can remember, it's Popova who has usually made mistakes on the side-by-side and throw jumps and she always appeared to be very tense and nervous. IIRC, he has usually landed his jumps.

Popova had a much larger build than a typical pairs girl. Despite that, Popova/Massot had some impressive lifts and a huge triple twist. He seems very strong.

Savchenko is really tiny. Both very short and has a very petite build. So if he could have a twist that big with Popova, I could imagine him doing a quad with Savchenko.

The big unknown is how fast will they manage to gel. Massot was trained by Steuer so he might have a similar technique already. He definitely doesn't have Savchenko's basics so they might look mismatched, at least at first.

At first it felt like Savchenko was moving towards Suguri territory but from what I remember, she hasn't had that many injuries, seems to be in a very good shape still so if that partnership works out, why not give it a try. They should be able to challenge for some Euros medals at least and maybe Worlds medals as well. But yeah another bronze at Olympics - at best - seems the only realistic target to me, personally.

But then, Szolkowy wasn't an accomplished skater either when they teamed up and look where they got to.

MaiKatze · Mar 30, 2014

This is drama at it's best. Doesn't look as if Aliona/Ingo and Robin will have their happy ever after. And they looked so loving at Worlds just hours ago. So maybe they're fantastic actors or Sportschau is lying.

Snow63 · Mar 30, 2014

MaiKatze said:
This is drama at it's best. Doesn't look as if Aliona/Ingo and Robin will have their happy ever after. And they looked so loving at Worlds just hours ago. So maybe they're fantastic actors or Sportschau is lying.

Can you translate? brief synopsis?

MaiKatze · Mar 30, 2014

It basically says that there is bad blood between Aliona/Ingo at one side and Robin at the other. Aliona doesn't understand that Robin doesn't want to participate in financially well paid ice shows anymore. He was reluctant even to go the WC and they (Ingo and Aliona) had to talk him into it. Robin is sad and basically is quoted "everything I could say now would make things worse" Robins girlfriend is supposed to be the one who talked about the Aliona/Bruno pairing before they were ready to talk about it, although the article states that Aliona has been saying she wants to continue with someone else earlier as well. Aliona says "That was really evil. It is sad, we were like a family!" Robin kept quiet about it, and a person from the german eislauf union is quoted that they were all always admiring Robin because he didn't have it easy in his career. The underlying theme is that Ingo Steuer and Aliona Savchenko are difficult people to work with.

Snow63 · Mar 30, 2014

MaiKatze said:
It basically says that there is bad blood between Aliona/Ingo at one side and Robin at the other. Aliona doesn't understand that Robin doesn't want to participate in financially well paid ice shows anymore. He was reluctant even to go the WC and they (Ingo and Aliona) had to talk him into it. Robin is sad and basically is quoted "everything I could say now would make things worse" Robins girlfriend is supposed to be the one who talked about the Aliona/Bruno pairing before they were ready to talk about it, although the article states that Aliona has been saying she wants to continue with someone else earlier as well. Aliona says "That was really evil. It is sad, we we're like a family!" Robin kept quiet about it, and a person from the german eislauf union is quoted that they we're all always admiring Robin because he didn't have it easy in his career. The underlying theme is that Ingo Steuer and Aliona Savchenko are difficult people to work with.

Thanks. I always suspected that she's a *****. Beautiful and talented *****. We'll se how this situation will turn out to her in the end.

MaiKatze · Mar 30, 2014

You'll never know. Officially they german fed didn't support Ingo because of his Stasi past. I don't know he was very young back then, it should be forgiven. While he certainly is a great trainer, he seems to be a intimidating guy as well. Mandy Wötzel, his partner when he was still skating himself, was scared of him and didn't talk about him in very admiring words. Maybe Aliona and Ingo just aren't the type of people to hold back. And Robin is at a stage in his life where he just wants this all to be over. They seem dominant while he is more submissive. 11 years is a long time for such a relationship.

Alba · Mar 30, 2014

MaiKatze said:
It basically says that there is bad blood between Aliona/Ingo at one side and Robin at the other. Aliona doesn't understand that Robin doesn't want to participate in financially well paid ice shows anymore. He was reluctant even to go the WC and they (Ingo and Aliona) had to talk him into it. Robin is sad and basically is quoted "everything I could say now would make things worse" Robins girlfriend is supposed to be the one who talked about the Aliona/Bruno pairing before they were ready to talk about it, although the article states that Aliona has been saying she wants to continue with someone else earlier as well. Aliona says "That was really evil. It is sad, we we're like a family!" Robin kept quiet about it, and a person from the german eislauf union is quoted that they we're all always admiring Robin because he didn't have it easy in his career. The underlying theme is that Ingo Steuer and Aliona Savchenko are difficult people to work with.

I belive that. She always seemed to be the one wearing the pants. Extremely ambitious and always wanted to win everything, like Grishuk in this aspect. I kind of like that in an athlete. I understand Robon though, as you said 11 years is a long time for such a relationship, and they had their chance almost 3 times and missed it. He's mentally and physically tired.

skatefan02 said:
Wouldn't it be her fifth time? She competed with Stanislav Morozov in 2002 for Ukraine.

I completely forgot that. Anyway, they were not real contenders there so I don't count that as a missed chance for a medal.

BounceAround · Mar 30, 2014

I think it would have been fascinating had Hao Zhang not found a new partner and Aliona ended up skating with him.

1) He could have made that throw triple axel happen. :biggrin:

2) He seems like the stronger jumper/performer in both of his last two teams.
3) If they had skated for China, done well, and the Chinese Federation had made citizenship happen for her for the Olympics, it would be interesting politically since China almost never gives foreigners citizenship. I've never heard of anyone being naturalized. It would be also interesting to see if the Chinese could ever accept her as "one of their own", similar to Yuko in Russia.

louisa05 · Mar 30, 2014

I am really tired today and read the thread title as "Savchenko and MasCot". Wondered which one. Thought maybe one of the cute bears from Sochi would be good.

:laugh:

Anyway...I'm taking a nap now, back to regularly scheduled discussion of partnerships.

CPWest · Mar 30, 2014

BounceAround said:
I think it would have been fascinating had Hao Zhang not found a new partner and Aliona ended up skating with him.

1) He could have made that throw triple axel happen.
2) He seems like the stronger jumper/performer in both of his last two teams.
3) If they had skated for China, done well, and the Chinese Federation had made citizenship happen for her for the Olympics, it would be interesting politically since China almost never gives foreigners citizenship. I've never heard of anyone being naturalized. It would be also interesting to see if the Chinese could ever accept her as "one of their own", similar to Yuko in Russia.

Before Hao Zhang found the new partner, some Chinese FS fans were fantasizing him teaming up with Aliona :laugh:

cptnhastings · Mar 30, 2014

MaiKatze said:
Aliona says "That was really evil. It is sad, we were like a family!" .

That was a good translation but I'd've translated "Es ist schade, wir sind wie eine Familie gewesen. Aber das ist wirklich böse." to "It's a shame, we were like a family. But that's too bad."

I don't see the word "evil" there. I'd rather people didn't think Aliona was calling Robin evil. That word kinda stuck out to me when I read the translation.

tulosai · Mar 30, 2014

cptnhastings said:
That was a good translation but I'd've translated "Es ist schade, wir sind wie eine Familie gewesen. Aber das ist wirklich böse." to "It's a shame, we were like a family. But that's too bad."

I don't see the word "evil" there. I'd rather people didn't think Aliona was calling Robin evil. That word kinda stuck out to me when I read the translation.

Yeah I speak German and I agree. Evil is too strong for what she said.

spread beagle · Mar 30, 2014

tulosai said:
Yeah I speak German and I agree. Evil is too strong for what she said.

From my knowledge of German, "mean" is probably best translation for "böse" in this case.

anyanka · Mar 30, 2014

spread beagle said:
From my knowledge of German, "mean" is probably best translation for "böse" in this case.

Mein Deutsch ist nicht sehr gut, but now I think of "Bose" speakers and can't think they mean "bad" ...

Back to the subject at hand ...

(und entschuldigung)

gmyers · Mar 30, 2014

So no worlds in 2015. They will wait for 2016 worlds to establish worldwide rep to contend for peyongchang gold. Massot needs mental stregnth at Olympics which unfortunately szolkowy lacked.

Savchenko and Massot team up

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

Alba

skatefan02

Ziggy

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

Ziggy

MaiKatze

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.

MaiKatze

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.

MaiKatze

Alba

BounceAround

louisa05

CPWest

cptnhastings

tulosai

spread beagle

anyanka

gmyers

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