Naomi Nari Nam

hockeyfan228 · Apr 5, 2004

Rgirl,

Is it the pressure of 3/3's and quads in traditional boots for everyone, or is it the pressure of performing them when a girl is 12-16, and still in the process of growing and forming? I wonder if Arakawa, for example, has bypassed the point of injury, because her training was curtailed to an extent while she attended college.

Vash01 · Apr 5, 2004

Thanks for the excellent article RGirl. It is surprising that not much R&D has been done on skating equipment. Perhaps the injury epidemic will motivate peple to put money into it. It should have happened a lot sooner. NNN's story is heartbreaking but how many others saw their dreams end too soon? We don't hear of so many.

euterpe · Apr 5, 2004

It's kind of idiotic that 12-, 13- and 14-year-olds are being pushed to do 3/3s, quads and 3As when they can't compete at the senior level until they are almost 16.

By the time they ARE 16, their bodies have matured or have started to mature, and their technique is thrown off. They either relearn their jumps, or they fade away due to injury or inability to adjust.

With the frantic attention on tougher and tougher combinations, it may be that only the very young can consistently do these jumps, but they never learn good SKATING, just jumps. Miki Ando is an accomplished jumper, but her skating lacks musicality and affect. I looked at the string of presentation 5.8s given her and shook my head in disbelief. Is this what we want in a champion? I sure hope not.

Longhornliz · Apr 5, 2004

I agree, I have watched the video of her landing her quad and 3/3 combo at japanese junior nationals several times... and although its amazing that she can do this.... it isnt pretty to watch.

Everything comes and goes in cycles... so maybe in future years the artistry will again be the trump card in figure skating. Its interesting to think about how the sport has evolved over the years. Its not too long ago that they traced figures and judges examined them with magnifying glasses. Who knows what the future holds in regards to the level of jumping that will be expected from the ladies (and men for that matter).

Just because miki (and sasha almost) has the quad. i dont think that will become the standard to which skaters are judged. The women arent exactly throwing the 3A out there after the few who have landed it in the past.

I agree that NNN will probably never be able to make it back to the level she might have reached... I just hope she is able to become a contender at nationals in the next year.

egskater0003 · Apr 5, 2004

nnn

Rgirl
actually it was NNN's SP where she fell hard and got back up to skate a fantastic program. Boy was she a fast skater and just oozing charm & charisma. She was the cute bubbly so adorable little girl, but that was then.

I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe some day she'll be able to be in her top form again. Even if she can't get back to that level in 99, I still hope she can make Nats05 just for her own sake to make her happy and proud that depsite everything she was able to make it to one more Nats and skate just for herself. Wow, now wouldn't that be a headliner for Nats05 to have one of the baby ballerinas come back from the dead.

berthes ghost · Apr 5, 2004

Wow, now wouldn't that be a headliner for Nats05 to have one of the baby ballerinas come back from the dead

Which one?

Maybe they could do a "BBs, where are they now?" segment.

Sarah, the most overlooked of the BBs, yet the most sucessful. She'll have the Kate Jackson role in "Charlie's Angels on Ice".

Sasha, so much hype and what has she really acoomplished? She'll have the Farah Fawcette role in "Charlie's Angels on Ice".

NNN, so posh, yet somehow lost between the other two. She'll have the Jacquline Smith role in "Charlie's Angels on Ice".

gkelly · Apr 6, 2004

euterpe said:
With the frantic attention on tougher and tougher combinations, it may be that only the very young can consistently do these jumps, but they never learn good SKATING, just jumps. Miki Ando is an accomplished jumper, but her skating lacks musicality and affect.

Fortunately, Ando's basic skating skills are very good, not just her jumps. Solid edges, solid footwork, solid spins.

That will give her a firm foundation to develop the "musicality and affect" side of her skating if she wants to keep up with the more artistic top skaters and win gold at the senior international level. Or she may always be more of an athletic-technical skater than an artist. It is a sport after all.

As for NNN, she already did return competition this year, competing at regionals and sectionals. Don't you consider that "eligible" skating, Rgirl? Maybe you meant "elite" skating instead, with a narrow definition of elite (national/international medal contender)?

chuckm · Apr 6, 2004

gkelly said:
Fortunately, Ando's basic skating skills are very good, not just her jumps. Solid edges, solid footwork, solid spins.
That will give her a firm foundation to develop the "musicality and affect" side of her skating if she wants to keep up with the more artistic top skaters and win gold at the senior international level. Or she may always be more of an athletic-technical skater than an artist. It is a sport after all.

If a person doesn't have musicality, it is not an easy thing to develop. If a skater doesn't 'get' anything from pieces of music, how can he or she relate to it, or express any outward emotion from it? Ando doesn't skate to the music. The music is there, and she goes through the motions, but her motions don't follow the music. There's nothing wrong with the choreography, but she doesn't DO anything with it.

Yoshie Onda has had the same problem for years. She was always a good jumper, but she didn't relate to her music. Now that she's trying to develop musicality, her jumps have become a problem.

soogar · Apr 6, 2004

I disagree about musicality. Todd E didn't have a whole lot of musicality early on in his career and he developed it later on in his career. Also there is nothing wrong with Ando's skating, she looked pretty good in the SP and nerves really got to her in the LP.

chuckm · Apr 6, 2004

Ando skated pretty much the same way at Junior Worlds as she did at Worlds. She tried the 4S but didn't land it, her program was flat, and she got slower and slower as it went along. If anything, she looked bored at JW, not nervous, but her performance wasn't really any better than at Worlds.

I don't think it was nerves, I think that's the way she skates.

soogar · Apr 6, 2004

chuckm:
Sometimes missing one element will hose up a performance. Maybe she builds so much on her 4s that when it's not on , the whole program is shot.

However presentation can be developed and Ando has good skating ability so all she needs is a choreographer who will work with her strengths.

jesslily · Apr 7, 2004

At Jr. World, the younger girls, 3 US 14 year olds, Binshu Xu, and 2 younger Japaness girls got all the attention, sure the mature looking Miki Ando felt a little out of place. But at Worlds, she was really enjoyed herself, she was eager to show her maturity. Comparing two years ago her performance at the Jr. world she improved a lot in terms of music interpretation.

chuckm · Apr 7, 2004

Miki Ando was the star of this year's Jr. Worlds, and she was the preordained winner. She got the lion's share of the attention since she was the only one who was going to attempt a 4S in her FS. No one expected two US 14-year-olds in their first try at Junior Worlds to be on the podium, as a Japanese sweep had been predicted.

Miki wasn't the oldest lady on the ice, either. Viktoria Pavuk is 18, Jenna McCorkell, Gwendolen Dider and Giorgia Carrossa are all 17 and Cynthia Phaneuf is just one month younger than Miki.

Miki didn't look out of place, she just looked bored, as the commentators noted. And given the great buildup, I was sorely diappointed by her performance, as she didn't skate all that well.

berthes ghost · Apr 7, 2004

I'm a little surprised that Miki is turning out to be not everyones cup of tea. I thought that she was far and away the best at Jr. Worlds.

euterpe · Apr 7, 2004

Ando may have been the best, but this was her THIRD try at winning Jr. Worlds. She darn well SHOULD have been the best.

shine · Apr 7, 2004

berthes ghost said:
I'm a little surprised that Miki is turning out to be not everyones cup of tea. I thought that she was far and away the best at Jr. Worlds.

Not exactly so presentation wise.

soogar · Apr 7, 2004

Euterpe:
Come on now, slow and steady always wins the race. Junior events are for kids to make mistakes and grow. There lots of skaters who have won world junior skating championships and nothing ever came of their skating.

heyang · Apr 10, 2004

I remember reading something years ago.... supposedly John Nicks liked to get his girls doing triples earlier. The thought process was that it made them standout against the rest of the novice and junior field - sorta get the buzz going.

At the same time that the article came out, many people pointed out that NNN and SC (who were both with Nicks at the time) had shorted/cheated triples, partially evidenced by how their free leg skate blade would graze the top of the boot of the landing leg.

thvudragon · Apr 10, 2004

shine said:
Not exactly so presentation wise.

PML, and who exactly was better? The boring horribly generic American girls who know nothing but random arm movements?

TV

shine · Apr 10, 2004

PML. You did notice that the poster quoted by me said "far and away the best"? The other girls may not be exactly better than Ando, but neither is she head and shoulders above them, including Meissner, Pavuk, Johanson, Phaneuf and Sawada etc. IIRC, boringness doesn't directly translate into "bad presentation" either. And if you want to compare arm movements, Meissner alone has far better and less generic arm movements than Ando.

Naomi Nari Nam

hockeyfan228

Vash01

euterpe

Longhornliz

egskater0003

berthes ghost

gkelly

chuckm

soogar

chuckm

soogar

jesslily

chuckm

berthes ghost

euterpe

shine

soogar

heyang

thvudragon

shine

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