So-Youn Park

I just rewatched SoYoun's SP, OMG, isn't that stunning. really perfect interpretation wise. She got every note/tone right this time! shame on the step out of the lutz. otherwise, it will be a perfect program. I take back on my comment she should use more power, the IN is perfect.

sunny_stars said:

Very minimal chance unless someone decides to take a leave before gpf.
Yulia, Elena, Ade, Anna, Liza, and Satoko or Ashley are basically the skaters for gpf. She was to win CoR which is really impossible. Buut, she does have a good chance on winning her first GP medal (possibly bronze).

DW is also working with Jin Seo and Hae Jin. I've been liking what he has done with Jin Seo the most though. He really made Jimbo seem like he's enjoying his time which imo is pretty rare.

edit: nvm she has no chance to get into gpf. she has to pass sam and gracie first.

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That is really sad, considering she should have gotten 3rd place in the LP. She outskated both Gracie and Sam, IMHO, even with the fall - she had the second highst technical score in LP! I think she should have gotten Bronze here. Really a shame.

And Ashley? That girl is still a contender? So Youn actually rotates her jumps all the way around.

Don't have high hopes for Adelina or Anna, but I could see Adelina getting +10000 GOE at the Rostelecom after she waves at the judges. Don't mean to be so negative, but the results of Sochi don't leave me with expecting much else.

Anyway, sorry to get off topic, that was just my two cents about GPF. Personally, So Youn was my favorite of the SA and deserved Bronze or at least a very close 4th.

os168 said:

Wow what great report! To watch it live must be incredible. I did laugh a little inside on the curse of the 3loop for the Koreans, whats up with this 3loop?! Yeah I felt she was nervous, but she controlled it very well.

What is important is she has improved over last couple of weeks and delivered when it count. Although her PCS was low (something like 4th lowest in the SP?) it did rise up the rankings during the LP, so it is a promising improvement already. To expect any more at this point is probably unrealistic.. (I guess I am naturally cynical about GP judging, due to the home advantages and how typical these biases are accepted by ISU is entirely ridiculous imo)

I must say, SoYoun does lovely, sweet, innocent, delicate and tenderness very well (romantic young Juliet), infact better than any competitors I can think of right now even. But the program can benefit from better clarification. To demonstrate more distinctive emotional growth and character progression of Juliet (2nd part- Love Awakening/Maturing Juliet), other wise the stabbing (3rd part -Tragic Juliet) at the end would makes no sense or have little impact. (If she can complete the dying stabbing 1 second before the music end, it can have a bigger dramatic effect.) The 2nd part meeting of Romeo and Juliet - step sequence can improve with some music tuning to the waltz with greater conviction and greater tension. It should be the emotional transition part of the program, ideally timed with the skating stride movement.

People keep complain about David Wilson Choreography, but really he and his music editors knows what they are doing. The people who slight the program and music as boring and meandering are baseless. They are either prejudiced already, have an agenda or seriously sensitivity depraved. The 3 arch of the story is on a linear path, Not on abstraction, nor based on the one passage/theme of the story. Once the movement are tuned to the music intentions, the whole thing will make clearer sense. Just like Adios in its early phase, it is about getting the tech right and the foundation set first, then work on the expressions. If So Youn can hold some of her spirals positions and choreography bit longer to create sort of a sustain pedal effect at end of key music phrasings (Yuna is a master of this on an instinctual level). These maturing/polish things are naturally finely tuned as the season progresses. Once she add 3lz jump combo back, wow!!! Watch out, TES!! Greater consistency, GOE as well as PCS follows. Fingers crossed at Cup of Russia. It should be a test of nerves. I have no idea what kind of audience she will face, hopefully less hostile than the ones that greeted Yuna on her last 2 competitions there.

I kind of feel bad for HaeJin actually, hope she do not feel neglected. If anything So Youn's good progress should help to motivate her to do better. She has Cup of China and Skate Canada coming up, not too shabby!! Especially with programs by Lambiel and Wilson. I am just thinking, if people are complaining that SoYoun remind them of Yuna already, can you imagine how much more the complaints will be with HaeJin?

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Great analysis! It's only the first event of the season after JO, so I think she still has time to get into the role.

So Youn's FS is beautiful!!! I absolutely love how at the 2:20 mark she follows the slowing tempo to create a slowish feel that is pure (her FS had this last year also) She definitely gets the music.

I think the fall was compounded by the place in which it happened. Unfortunately it was at about the worst time in that program to happen. It's right after the halfway point so maybe they designed it as a little breather section but she did a few crossovers and then right into a 2a-3t that was followed by a layback spin.(I'm aware these aren't easy moves but the crossover section leading in that lasted a good ~20 seconds). The point is its too bad she couldn't have got the program back before doing the jump and spin. I'm probably way to analytical here. As soon as she exits the spin she does a beautiful catch foot that matches the music perfect and then begins to get the feel back ....at least IMO. Again if she would have been able to get up after the fall and tune back into the program via some interpretive moves the tech elements may have had a bit more impact on the judges. Probably hoping for too much here. Anyway the best part is yet to come. Ina Bauer into a 2a and then she drops down for the cymbal crash. Very good choreo

Long story short.....I really like this program and other than S/B and Machida crushing the men...this program is probably the only one I'll rewatch. (I've watched it like 10 times ) I hope she can go clean for an entire competition this season so the judges can give her the marks she deserves. I've got my eyes on this one!

Here is the version I have been watching: Ya know you want to watch it again


http://youtu.be/oiaSQoyNGk4

re-watched both SP and LP, I have to say SoYoun is tremendously improved. just wish she can have 2 perfect clean performances of these 2 programs in this season. that's all.
After I watched a few events live and get to know more about figure skating community. I realize that this sports is really political, and it is a business as well as a show. Not just Russian against US, not that simple. One of the tech specialist is the Russian guy who is also the tech specialist of Sochi Lady's LP.
Anyways. I only cares about skaters themselves.

I realize that this sports is really political, and it is a business as well as a show.

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I think it's best to avoid the politics and just find skaters you enjoy regardless of their nationality and any federations relation to the ISU. It's going to happen no matter what is said.

I love skaters from all cultures and backgrounds. So Youn is one of many for me.

os168 said:

People keep complain about David Wilson Choreography, but really he and his music editors knows what they are doing. The people who slight the program and music as boring and meandering are baseless. They are either prejudiced already, have an agenda or seriously sensitivity depraved. The 3 arch of the story is on a linear path, Not on abstraction, nor based on the one passage/theme of the story. Once the movement are tuned to the music intentions, the whole thing will make clearer sense. Just like Adios in its early phase, it is about getting the tech right and the foundation set first, then work on the expressions. If So Youn can hold some of her spirals positions and choreography bit longer to create sort of a sustain pedal effect at end of key music phrasings (Yuna is a master of this on an instinctual level). These maturing/polish things are naturally finely tuned as the season progresses. Once she add 3lz jump combo back, wow!!! Watch out, TES!! Greater consistency, GOE as well as PCS follows. Fingers crossed at Cup of Russia. It should be a test of nerves. I have no idea what kind of audience she will face, hopefully less hostile than the ones that greeted Yuna on her last 2 competitions there.

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Utilizing ad hominem attacks to discredit people who disagree with your opinion doesn't strengthen your argument at all, but rather underlines your lack of sound reasoning. I do not like Wilson's choreography and *gasp* do not fit any of your criteria.

Wilson has been coasting for several seasons now (everything up to 2011 was excellent). His programs for Yuna 2013-2014 looked like clones of one another, and his choreography for Park's LP looks like he just spliced up Yuna's choreography, mixed it around, and gave it to Park. There were many moments through the LP where I side-eyed my screen because it looked like an exact rehash of Kim's choreography: same step sequence, same transitions (ex: Ina Bauer into jump), same arm movement. I worry that all the Korean skaters are going to use Wilson and not diversify their choreographers.

That being said, I do like what Wilson did for Park's SP. She needs more fire and edge to skate it effectively.

^totally agree. It's not like people only critize Wilson for his works for So Youn anyways.

hm it depends. usually, skaters need to lose weight unless they were born with the power. that's why many skaters do not enter the podium or their jumps get lower when they enter senior competition due to their weight change.

chelsey333 said:

hm it depends. usually, skaters need to lose weight unless they were born with the power. that's why many skaters do not enter the podium or their jumps get lower when they enter senior competition due to their weight change.

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umm...what? is this about So Youn's weight or about her competitors?

lilahozi said:

Utilizing ad hominem attacks to discredit people who disagree with your opinion doesn't strengthen your argument at all, but rather underlines your lack of sound reasoning. I do not like Wilson's choreography and *gasp* do not fit any of your criteria.

Wilson has been coasting for several seasons now (everything up to 2011 was excellent). His programs for Yuna 2013-2014 looked like clones of one another, and his choreography for Park's LP looks like he just spliced up Yuna's choreography, mixed it around, and gave it to Park. There were many moments through the LP where I side-eyed my screen because it looked like an exact rehash of Kim's choreography: same step sequence, same transitions (ex: Ina Bauer into jump), same arm movement. I worry that all the Korean skaters are going to use Wilson and not diversify their choreographers.

That being said, I do like what Wilson did for Park's SP. She needs more fire and edge to skate it effectively.

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I made 3 points in your bold paragraph.

1. People keep complain about David Wilson Choreography, but really he and his music editors knows what they are doing.
I am referring to their competence, and creative direction of the program including the music/content construct. Not whether it suited to your taste, which anyone is welcome to like or dislike, who am I to judge on someone's preference.

2. The people who slight the program and music as boring and meandering are baseless.
Let me ask you, do you find it boring and meandering? If so, why? If it is just that it is not to your taste, or that your tasted changed/evolved, it is not exactly the same thing is it. When I hear this sort of generalisation without constructive criticism. I tend to think as the most ignorant, narcissistic (self important) and useless statement one can make. I mean even I am not a fan of most of Lori Nichol's recent works because she does repeat herself often, and it is through cherry picking and matching, highlighting rather than organic process of develop someone's maturity holistically, but I can at least understand why she does them and will never slight her work as boring.

3. They are either prejudiced already, have an agenda or seriously sensitivity depraved

Tell me if this is true. If one is already set in their ways on what they find interesting, can they be naturally prejudiced when the skater does not deliver on these expectations. Heck, even myself is often guilty of this, but I am at least concious of it. There are those who are bored by unfamiliarity (too set on their ideal/expectation, e.g I want rockin' roll, why am I getting sleepy music.) and there are those who are bored by excess familiarity. Either way, it would make it their problem and not necessarily to do with the quality or the validity of work itself.

How a skating program came to be is not done by the choreographers alone. It requires at least 1/3rd input by the skater, and the rest are done by the spectators with their interpretation and their subjective inner qualifications/prejudices to weigh the piece work. So to blame entirely on the choreographer on something not suited to 'taste' is almost certainly giving them too much credit.

All artists/designers/composers, even the greatest creators repeat themselves as they matures, it is just the way it has always been through out history. As they matures, their general path is less of reinvention, but about refining their idea, or in some cases, breaks them down entirely but always apply their distinct signature where they see appropriate. People don't buy a Monet to get a Picasso, or watch a Steven Spielberg movie and complain it is not like a Soderberg, or that is too Spielberg etc. To expect a Wilson program not anything like Wilson is unrealistic or lack understanding/empathy of the creative process, and most of all the practical limitation which these programs must fulfil. For choreographers under COP in particular, they are there to create a piece of work that can meet the rigidity of COP requirement/confinement, optimise scoring, tech content that is up to the skater's capability, and managing packages suited to the skaters and their variability, with their preferences and inspirations and doing this in a limited time.

Korea, unlike the power federations they don;'t have a staple of them, they just got Wilson, Yuna, 2 or 3 great tech coaches. As long as the youngsters stick with these resources that are available to them, and want to pay tribute to those that inspires them, then you will get Wilson/Yuna esque programs regardless. You might as well just be prepared for it. Things will not change. Just like if US only have Frank, Lori and Michelle at their disposal for many years, then they will get a crop of skaters that more or less skate Kwan like. Even US today when Michelle is no longer skating, with Frank and Lori alone, you got those Gracie/Mirai programs that can only be described as very Kwan like don't you think?

lilahozi, seriously, all I want to say is that David can give SoYoun a SP that you like. also he can give Patrick the new LP.full of innovation and beyond, which proved more than enough his ability and creative mind. And he is being doing that every season for quite a long time now, always on the top of his game as a choreographer.
And you claim that Yuna's program after 2011 looks like "clones" of one of another. Kov, Les Mis, SITC and Adios, plus ex all of me, imagine, nessun dorma. And they are clones of one of another. Really? I absolutely disagree. Wanna watch clones, I suggested you watch JuliaLip's every program including SL and what about Tarasova' program for Mao.
Regarding SoYoun's program I have done detailed analysis on YNKF and why I think it is good choreo, where is the innovation and why it suited SoYoun, I dont wanna repeat here.
BTW, inna bauer into 2A is a classic transition/point getter lots of skaters do , not just SoYoun and Yuna, if you watch closer, actually SoYoun's SP steps into 2A is another new transition for her, not bauer. When other skaters do it, are you going to blame on David as well.
You can watch SoYoun new SP/LP in a row and compare to her old SP/LP. judge it by yourself.
there is tremendous improvement technically including foot work and I think her new programs also suits her like a glove. (compare to Radio's new LP program).
Well, that is good work from both choreographer and skater.
There are limited classic moves of figure skating. also just like OS said, any artist has their preferred style, and that style usually changes and refines along with the artist's life.
David, Rohene, Lori, and Cindy (SoYoun's former choreographer and Mariah's) are choreographer's work that I watched often and enjoyed a lot. They all have distinct style and preferred artistic vocabulary.
BTW, David choreo for many many skaters. not just SoYoun and Yuna. I mentioned his work for Patrick. This year, he also choreo 3 Chinese young pairs. All the reception from China skating community is thank David for his hard work. 3 Chinese young pair team, 6 programs, but absolutely distinct music choice (most of them never been used or heard of) and suited every one with proper dose of challenge.
People could have different tastes.
And I know, David's work for Yuzuru seems not work very well. The reason I personally think is that those LPs are too difficult for Yuzuru to execute them perfectly, So Yuzuru changed choreographer this season. no big deal.
As for Yuna. her program after 2011 is very different from before 2011 visually is largely due to rule change. (plus, she changed costume designer, grown mature ....) Actually, lots of Yuna fans think that some of her master pieces are from after 2011. for me, like another poster here, KoV is one of my favorite. Thank David and Yuna dare to try something like that.
People can have different taste, totally okay, but I have seen too much unbased David bash, I mean bash....
As for SoYoun, I think she is on the right track, this season upgrade tech element, and SP is a bit more of a challenge style-wise, and LP showcase her beauty. She is in pretty good hands so far. I wish next season, when she is more confident, her team can try something vastly different moreso than her SP this year. and #DavidMustGo
#DavidNoMoreStabbing&UterusGrabbing

EDIT: about SoYoun's new step sequence, are they similar to Yuna's SITC and Adios? I only saw that, one is straight, the other is circular which is the same, that is about it. And choreo sequence my fav part of SoYoun's LP, wish she can hold spiral a bit longer (SoYoun please watch how Yuna use spiral to highlight her program in HomageToKorea). Ya know, twizzles are twizzles, and position 2 ballet arms, will always be like that.

BTW, David is not the highest paid choreographer as well

yyyskate said:

lilahozi, seriously, all I want to say is that David can give SoYoun a SP that you like. also he can give Patrick the new LP.full of innovation and beyond, which proved more than enough his ability and creative mind. And he is being doing that every season for quite a long time now, always on the top of his game as a choreographer.
And you claim that Yuna's program after 2011 looks like "clones" of one of another. Kov, Les Mis, SITC and Adios, plus ex all of me, imagine, nessun dorma. And they are clones of one of another. Really? I absolutely disagree. Wanna watch clones, I suggested you watch JuliaLip's every program including SL and what about Tarasova' program for Mao.
Regarding SoYoun's program I have done detailed analysis on YNKF and why I think it is good choreo, where is the innovation and why it suited SoYoun, I dont wanna repeat here.
BTW, inna bauer into 2A is a classic transition/point getter lots of skaters do , not just SoYoun and Yuna, if you watch closer, actually SoYoun's SP steps into 2A is another new transition for her, not bauer. When other skaters do it, are you going to blame on David as well.
You can watch SoYoun new SP/LP in a row and compare to her old SP/LP. judge it by yourself.
there is tremendous improvement technically including foot work and I think her new programs also suits her like a glove. (compare to Radio's new LP program).
Well, that is good work from both choreographer and skater.
There are limited classic moves of figure skating. also just like OS said, any artist has their preferred style, and that style usually changes and refines along with the artist's life.
David, Rohene, Lori, and Cindy (SoYoun's former choreographer and Mariah's) are choreographer's work that I watched often and enjoyed a lot. They all have distinct style and preferred artistic vocabulary.
BTW, David choreo for many many skaters. not just SoYoun and Yuna. I mentioned his work for Patrick. This year, he also choreo 3 Chinese young pairs. All the reception from China skating community is thank David for his hard work. 3 Chinese young pair team, 6 programs, but absolutely distinct music choice (most of them never been used or heard of) and suited every one with proper dose of challenge.
People could have different tastes.
And I know, David's work for Yuzuru seems not work very well. The reason I personally think is that those LPs are too difficult for Yuzuru to execute them perfectly, So Yuzuru changed choreographer this season. no big deal.
As for Yuna. her program after 2011 is very different from before 2011 visually is largely due to rule change. (plus, she changed costume designer, grown mature ....) Actually, lots of Yuna fans think that some of her master pieces are from after 2011. for me, like another poster here, KoV is one of my favorite. Thank David and Yuna dare to try something like that.
People can have different taste, totally okay, but I have seen too much unbased David bash, I mean bash....
As for SoYoun, I think she is on the right track, this season upgrade tech element, and SP is a bit more of a challenge style-wise, and LP showcase her beauty. She is in pretty good hands so far. I wish next season, when she is more confident, her team can try something vastly different moreso than her SP this year. and #DavidMustGo
#DavidNoMoreStabbing&UterusGrabbing

EDIT: about SoYoun's new step sequence, are they similar to Yuna's SITC and Adios? I only saw that, one is straight, the other is circular which is the same, that is about it. And choreo sequence my fav part of SoYoun's LP, wish she can hold spiral a bit longer (SoYoun please watch how Yuna use spiral to highlight her program in HomageToKorea). Ya know, twizzles are twizzles, and position 2 ballet arms, will always be like that.

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I agree with what you said about So Youn in bold, but I think that if she enjoys working with David and feels that he helps her understand and interpret the music, she should stay with him. It's not for us to decide.

As a fan of Yuna, I don't actually have a big preference for her 2011 programs (I love ALL of her programs, except maybe one or two). I mean, they were really well-done and really beautiful to watch, but I got more emotional reaction from some of her earlier programs as well as some of her later ones, i.e. KOV, Les Mis, and Adios. If David can find that "wavelength" on which So Youn shines, like he did with Yuna in Les Mis, it would be fantastic. I would say she's already pretty close, just needs some fine tuning.

agreed. My first impression of SoYoun's LP second half is very emotional (asian open). but SA seems a bit weaker in the second half. For one, I believe, SoYoun is comfortable working with David, if she is to work with Tarasova, get some Mao's swan lake like program, maybe also suitable for her ballet background. But I doubt that is ever gonna happen. Even it happened, will Tarasova spend time to tailor-make a program for her? Anyways, if have the resource, try different choreographer for ex maybe a good start.
Watch it live, if a skater have big projection and presence, it will arouse audience more. Some achieve that through big-skating like Patric k and Yuna, Some through flare, like Sami and Mae. And the over-the-top Machita and awe-inspiring tricks like Y/S.
For SoYoun, can you imagine she does something hot and sexy like Sami.
I enjoy her because, I like details and delicacy, I also find asian beauty/style in her skating. I dont wanna that kinda style disappear, she has her unique presence.
Her SP is classic, grace, tension and sharpness, her final close-up look which stunned me is exactly the look that reflects the feel of this music. this is challenge for her but also what she can manage to achieve.
her LP is what she is good at style-wise. the challenge for her here, is to express the emotion. You cannot expect she is going to do Yuna's danse macabre right away or ever.

Fall on the loop threw off her music timing, result in the lagging effect for short while. I find her sort of quieter skating endearing and suit the character of sweet Juliet (The one Romeo fell in love with) well. She does need to convey Julia's spirits some how, a women in charge of her destiny, unafraid to love till the death. I agree her skating is more Asian and delicate. Mao has aspects of these qualities in her skating, Zijun too, and of course Yuna's Lark Ascending (OMG!!!), it is perhaps more TV zoom-in friendly than live arena audience friendly. I kind of feel bad for her, it will take a few years of conquests before she is able to walk out of Yuna's shadows. But if she had been skating for another Asian country, let's say Singapore or Philippines, wonder how different will people judge her..

She is a very different type of skater and I appreciate that, and I really think Wilson realise this too in this lush/sweeping program (I can't imagine Yuna ever pick this character, can you?).

Yeah, I can never imagine SoYoun do "fever" -- one of my fav Yuna's ex
And yeah, if the same choreo and execution given to any other asian country skater or non-asian country skater, the review will be different.
in my mind, R&J and the specific movie version they chose is perfect for SoYoun, just like Yuna's lark. SoYoun does have more of a demure look on her(suits the character).If use bird, SoYoun is more like swan and Yuna is a little lark back then. that program is too special, because Yuna was suffering from injury. And those bandages. All in all created a image of a little lark of broken wings, trying to fly high. just perfect. Like you said, Yuna's experience is kinda miracle. Hard to repeat for any one.

my account about the audience's response is truly what happened. watching live, her attention to detail, little gestures, tucked my heart.it feels exactly like the tone of Eurosports commentator, not the kind of gushing/fanboy about the performance but a little trembling in their voice.

yyyskate said:

Yeah, I can never imagine SoYoun do "fever" -- one of my fav Yuna's ex
And yeah, if the same choreo and execution given to any other asian country skater or non-asian country skater, the review will be different.
in my mind, R&J and the specific movie version they chose is perfect for SoYoun, just like Yuna's lark. SoYoun does have more of a demure look on her(suits the character).If use bird, SoYoun is more like swan and Yuna is a little lark back then. that program is too special, because Yuna was suffering from injury. And those bandages. All in all created a image of a little lark of broken wings, trying to fly high. just perfect. Like you said, Yuna's experience is kinda miracle. Hard to repeat for any one.

my account about the audience's response is truly what happened. watching live, her attention to detail, little gestures, tucked my heart.it feels exactly like the tone of Eurosports commentator, not the kind of gushing/fanboy about the performance but a little trembling in their voice.

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I absolutely loved Seo-youn Park's LP performance at Skater America. It is one of the most surprising performances I have seen because I liked it so much more than her Worlds 2013 LP and because she gave my favorite performance even with a fall, which was totally unexpected.

^^ I also watched Mao at SA 2013 live (I still think that her SA short is her best outing that season), She also have little gestures that makes your heart trembling. I think you know what i mean.

Good job on your first Grand Prix event, So-Youn!
Enjoy it and we'll see you Cup of Russia next month.

no just in general because of the question