State of US Ladies in skating III: 2014-15 Season

yyyskate · Sep 28, 2014

Mrs. P said:
I just watched Gracie's LP. It wasn't her best performance ever, but I sort of expected a complete disaster based on what people were saying. She's definitely done much worse. The girl still did 5 triples. Hardly a meltdown.

As for the program, yeah its not quite there yet, but I actually think with time it could work. I know, I'm crazy and clearly in the minority, but I didn't hate it as much as others...

Yeah I just didn't see anything that screams panic button..but I realize I'm in the minority...

I agree with you as well, I think it is solid, she added new transitions, so she is still getting used to it, I also think, her jumping abilities and speed is about the same as last year, also she showed improvement in pacing and maturity. I just really really dislike the dress.

EDIT: there is a style skater naturally skating to, call it row talent, such as Yuzuru's R&J 1.0 or Patrick's POTO, and there is a style skaters are aiming for, for whatever reason (challenge themselves,artistic exploration...) if the skater is not an innately talented dancer like Yuna or Jason, they will struggle but perhaps will eventually get there through hard word. What I saw is improvement from Gracie.

starlight97 · Sep 28, 2014

Sam-Skwantch said:
Lets face it...these girls have been thru the ringer and back. I can't hold it against them if they are struggling with motivation. The Good news for Gracie is there aren't a bunch of girls nipping at her heals that can easily replace her in international competitions.

Exactly
That's why I don't go crazy with worry about her either.
Even with these programs, may they be the best choices or not, IMO she still is the USA's biggest chance by far.

Wagner struggles even more with her technical aspects (although imo her Components should be higher than they usually are cause artistically she sells those programs! )
And I know that everyone or many people are in love with Polina, but to me she still is very unpolished and completely lacks expression in her skating. Her programs do even less for her than Gracie's and to me she's just a bit "gangly" and awkward to watch. ..she skates more like a junior in some areas and her 2. mark reflects that. And if you look at where 80% of the Russian ladies are at her age or even 3 years younger...
NO insult to this young girl! She has beautifully solid jumps and is technically superior to many when it comes to jumping and she could improve in the other areas And she'll have time for that in the USA. I just think that, right now, she's miles behind her Russian counterparts.
And you know when many say "She is better than Gracie" ....there IS a reason why Gracie won nationals and there is a reason why Gracie was 4th in Sochi and Polina was 9th and so on and so on.
What I'm saying is that Gracie won't be replaced that quickly in her country.

Sam-Skwantch · Sep 28, 2014

I wouldn't count Polina out. Right now she has better programs and most importantly the ability to deliver them. She as of right now at 16 is better than Gracie was at that age or maybe even is better than she is now. I know that's harsh but I see things in Polina that I wish Gracie had. Is this misguided? Maybe..but my gut says yes.

As an American I kinda wish Marai would have covered the Olympics and Worlds spots instead so that Polina could challenge for a JWC this season. I think she would have a real shot at it. As a Yulia fan I'm a bit afraid Polina could sneak in early this season for a gold at CoC but...as the season develops I highly doubt she can compete with the senior Russians if they are on their game come Worlds and GPF time. Think about it. A JWC for Polina coming in as a senior would have really bumped up her status more than say a CoC win or even if she beats Radionova and Gracie at NHK. Once we get to Worlds and Euros and Russian Nationals take place.... That's when we we'll know for sure who is at the top. Deep down.. I'm hoping that Polina wins the US Nationals. I'm still not sure though that can translate into a World's medal. :popcorn:

Signed,
Confused American who loves the Russian Talent :bang:

starlight97 · Sep 28, 2014

No, of course counting Polina out completely would be stupid.
And you're right, she has one big thing that Gracie doesn't appear to have: relative consistency.
Nevertheless I think that Polina's "problem" aren't her technical aspects, but her artistry, meaning her Component marks.
That's where she really looses out to Gracie and the Russian girls.
And I definitely agree, that a JWC medal or title would have been a better platform for her to go on from, like Lipnitskaya and Radionova did.
And I honestly don't think that she has even the slightest chance against "The Russians" or even Gold (if she goes clean) at the GPF (if she makes it) or the WC, unless the others make more than one mistake.
Maybe I am the one who is misguided here Sam :biggrin:

and it'll all be the contrary!
The new, harsh penalties for wrong take-off edges will work in Polina's favor of course

R.D. · Sep 28, 2014

So y'all are saying not to count Edmunds out, yet that's essentially what is being done anyway. Take your pick. :rofl:

And as for Gold, this season will be the real test for her, being the top American/defending champ and all. The nerve handling will make or break her more than any perceived "program deficiencies".

chuckm · Sep 28, 2014

Gracie has NEVER been a good early-season skater, and actually she's a lot better this season at this point than she usually is. That's why I'm not worried. It isn't as if she finished 20 points behind Liza and Alena, and both had a lot to prove---they HAD to be well prepared for this competition.

Sam-Skwantch · Sep 28, 2014

So y'all are saying not to count Edmunds out, yet that's essentially what is being done anyway. Take your pick.

That's kind of true and it was unintentional. :slink:

I guess for as much of a threat as I perceive Polina to be, I can't bring myself to see her as a medal contender at Worlds this season. For me, Gracie is the best hope for the US in that department judging purely on things even at this point today. I do however think Polina has a real shot at over taking the US #1 position by the end of this season.

desertskates · Sep 28, 2014

I agree with thoughts that it's too early to tell on jumps and how the program will all come together. But one thing I do know is that I just don't care for the music selections and the arrangement of the program. It's a snore. Just like I found Sleeping Beauty to be. And with the errors, I thought 120 was a bit high for the score :/ I'm also one that thinks Polina has a shot at taking over at Nationals. And I don't think we'll have any ladies on the World podium this year.

humbaba · Sep 28, 2014

starlight97 said:
Exactly

And I know that everyone or many people are in love with Polina, but to me she still is very unpolished and completely lacks expression in her skating. H

I don't agree that Polina lacks expression. I love her long program this season; it is so intricate and ethereal. Then again , some people hear "Peter Pan" and immediately think "juniorish". That's an unfortunate prejudice, IMHO. I think Polina may suffer from some perception issues because she doesn't really fit any of the more common ladies FS molds. She's not a princess, or a music-box ballerina, or a waif, or a sex kitten. She does remind me of a ballerina, but more a lanky, sinewy Balanchine type dancer.

I'm not too concerned about whether Polina dethrones Gracie or threatens Lip or makes this or that podium. I just want to watch her develop and become the very special skater I think she can be.

Selene · Sep 28, 2014

I don’t agree with the “it’s early in the season” excuses for Gracie. This is a girl who, despite her hype, has never won a senior international event. She’s just not anywhere as good as people hoped she would be. She has never shown any jump consistency (at the senior level) or connection to her music.

I am very disappointed in her packaging/direction as a skater as well. What made her so exciting a few years ago was her speed and the power in her jumps. Frank has taken that away. She now has small jumps with very hard landings and zero flow out of them. They are poor quality jumps, especially the axel. The only elements she excels at now are her layback spin and the step sequences.

Frank has turned her into another powerless pretty princess. I think her musical selections and pageant girl packaging are boring. I don’t understand why Frank has tried so hard to minimize her technical strengths and push her into the pretty princess skater mold.

R.D. · Sep 28, 2014

Selene said:
Frank has turned [Gold] into another powerless pretty princess. I think her musical selections and pageant girl packaging are boring. I don’t understand why Frank has tried so hard to minimize her technical strengths and push her into the pretty princess skater mold.

Now, this I agree with.

Having said that, the proof is in the pudding (scores) and she's reaching new heights - 4th at Olys and 5th(?) at Worlds. So as long as the results happen, the direction is very unlikely to change. Unfortunate for those of us who DON'T care for the princess shtick. But, whatever works/gets points these days.

Sam-Skwantch · Sep 28, 2014

I'm not too concerned about whether Polina dethrones Gracie or threatens Lip or makes this or that podium. I just want to watch her develop and become the very special skater I think she can be.

Oh my!! What a great outlook. Care if I join ya? :clap:

LRK · Sep 28, 2014

Selene said:
Frank has turned her into another powerless pretty princess. I think her musical selections and pageant girl packaging are boring. I don’t understand why Frank has tried so hard to minimize her technical strengths and push her into the pretty princess skater mold.

It occurred to me - since we are often talking about how they are trying to turn her into a princess - that maybe they are trying to turn her into the wrong princess.

I think if they want a princess, princess Tamina in Prince of Persia is more what they should aim for - the music might suit her as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oSggsWhwMw&list=PLE4E153A86374F5BB

It's perfectly possible to be fierce, powerful AND graceful at the same time.

(Yeah, I know - I'm probably the only one who saw and enjoyed the movie. It was a fun action adventure fantasy, and I loved the characters and... it was just fun.

)

Anyway, I'm not panicking re Gracie myself - I'm sure she'll do a competent job with her program. And if people find "competent" satisfactory enough, then, indeed there is nothing to be overly concerned about. And if I thought "competent" was the best Gracie could do - and some skaters can't do better than that, and that is perfectly fine - I'd say nothing about it either. I just believe Gracie can do better than that - a whole lot better. And I think there is potential in Gracie that is going untapped - and I think that is a real pity. That is all. (shrug)

Icey · Sep 28, 2014

chuckm said:
Gracie has NEVER been a good early-season skater, and actually she's a lot better this season at this point than she usually is. That's why I'm not worried. It isn't as if she finished 20 points behind Liza and Alena, and both had a lot to prove---they HAD to be well prepared for this competition.

And it would have been great if Gracie had been prepared and ready too. Finishing behind Elizabetha is not a good thing for her, no matter the excuse. The judges don't accommodate for things like a skater not being a good early-season skater. You begin your competition year; you best be prepared and ready imo.

Icey · Sep 28, 2014

R.D. said:
Now, this I agree with.

Having said that, the proof is in the pudding (scores) and she's reaching new heights - 4th at Olys and 5th(?) at Worlds. So as long as the results happen, the direction is very unlikely to change. Unfortunate for those of us who DON'T care for the princess shtick. But, whatever works/gets points these days.

Mirai was 4th at her first Olympics and Flatt was 5th at her first worlds. Their direction certainly changed. In fact, I don't believe Mirai has even competed in a worlds (?). Hopefully, Gracie won't go in to decline, but it can happen.

AsadaFanBoy · Sep 28, 2014

Mirai competed in worlds after the Olympics. 1st after the short.

Icey · Sep 28, 2014

AsadaFanBoy said:
Mirai competed in worlds after the Olympics. 1st after the short.

Yes, of course. And finished 7th.

Mrs. P · Sep 28, 2014

Icey said:
And it would have been great if Gracie had been prepared and ready too. Finishing behind Elizabetha is not a good thing for her, no matter the excuse. The judges don't accommodate for things like a skater not being a good early-season skater. You begin your competition year; you best be prepared and ready imo.

Sometimes no amount of preparation can prevent a less than ideal performance.

Evan Lysacek was known to be the hardest worker in figure skating and even HE had his subpar performances. Oh hello, that time he finished 3rd at 2009 nationals behind Brandon Mroz and Jeremy Abbott? Or he finished 3rd at both his GP events and didn't make the JGPF that same season, getting beat by the following people: Johnny Weir, Takahiko Kozuka, Patrick Chan and Ryan Bradley.

We all know what happened at the end of that season.

ETA: A thought, which has nothing to do with the post above I'm responding to: It's worth noting that Polina Edmunds actually LOST the free skate to Courtney Hicks at the U.S. International FS Classic and her TES score (as well as her overall FS score) was actually LOWER than Gracie's. Yet somehow she's already predestined to take Gracie Gold's spot as U.S. No. 1? :think:

LuisRollerArg · Sep 28, 2014

wiht a weak Gracie, I think this will be again the perfect time for Ashley! #1 US Lady!!!

Mrs. P · Sep 28, 2014

LuisRollerArg said:
wiht a weak Gracie, I think this will be again the perfect time for Ashley! #1 US Lady!!!

Hey, that works! Battle!!

State of US Ladies in skating III: 2014-15 Season

yyyskate

starlight97

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

starlight97

R.D.

chuckm

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

desertskates

humbaba

Selene

R.D.

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

LRK

Icey

Icey

AsadaFanBoy

Icey

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

LuisRollerArg

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

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