State of US Ladies in skating III: 2014-15 Season

R.D. · Oct 6, 2014

Well...

Gold is the current US champion, therefore she is the current US #1. Until another American beats her at Nationals and/or on a regular basis, that's set in stone.

As expected, the Americans are off to a slow start. That said, a lot can change very quickly and this is no time to panic. Frankly I'm probably going to end up backing off this season as I lost a good bit of interest in the competitive scene after Sochi. So whatever happens will happen. Pretty clear though that the Russians are here to stay (in the short term).

Icey · Oct 6, 2014

R.D., currently Wagner ranks fourth in the world and Gracie fifth. So , from that perspective, Gold is not the number 1 us lady.

R.D. · Oct 6, 2014

Icey said:
R.D., currently Wagner ranks fourth in the world and Gracie fifth. So , from that perspective, Gold is not the number 1 us lady.

On the official ISU ranking or is this ice network's proprietary list?

Anyway, it's only very recently that Gold surpassed Wagner, and the rankings probably have not yet caught up to that fact. But they will soon.

StitchMonkey · Oct 6, 2014

R.D. said:
On the official ISU ranking or is this ice network's proprietary list?

Anyway, it's only very recently that Gold surpassed Wagner, and the rankings probably have not yet caught up to that fact. But they will soon.

ISU Results show Ashley still ranked higher than Gracie. And it looks like that does include this Gracie's most recent win.

(not trying to take sides with anyone or any stance, just posting a link that might interest some and be relevant. . . please ignore the messenger pigeon)

Mrs. P · Oct 6, 2014

StitchMonkey said:
ISU Results show Ashley still ranked higher than Gracie. And it looks like that does include this Gracie's most recent win.

(not trying to take sides with anyone or any stance, just posting a link that might interest some and be relevant. . . please ignore the messenger pigeon)

Thanks for posting.

They're practically tied (3021 for Ashley, 3014 for Gracie) as of now.

As for the season (not counting Gracie's senior B event), Ashley is at 1,686 while Gracie was at 1,491. The main reason for this Ashley's stronger GP season (and making the GPF and getting bronze, which is worth a lot more than a regular GP).

Gracie made up some, but not all, the deficit, by placing higher in the second half.

R.D. · Oct 6, 2014

StitchMonkey said:
ISU Results show Ashley still ranked higher than Gracie. And it looks like that does include this Gracie's most recent win

Thanks for posting the link.

It's a virtual tie now, but Wagner better enjoy it while it lasts. I suspect she will be passed up very shortly.

shine · Oct 6, 2014

starlight97 said:
No matter how impolite and rude and almost hateful some of the posts here are towards Gracie:

To some extend they all hold a spark of truth but I think it's scary how some skating fans rip skaters apart because they "do not live up to expectations/ status".

I also think that her programs are forgettable and that she lacks the mindset others have but like it has been said- She is the USA's #1 and RIGHTLY so. She placed highest at Nationals. She placed highest in Sochi (1 place away from a medal....where did Polina place again?), she placed highest at worlds.
Edmunds is promising but not there yet. No offense but if one thinks Gracie's programs are forgettable. .. what one has to think of Edmund's programs then

Her SP is dynamic, musical, complex, and sophisticated. Her LP is just mesmerizing. Two great program that are so different from each other and showcase her versatility and sensitivity wonderfully.

starlight97 · Oct 6, 2014

R.D. said:
Thanks for posting the link.

It's a virtual tie now, but Wagner better enjoy it while it lasts. I suspect she will be passed up very shortly.

I know that there are posters here who have been following FS way longer than I have so I hope you don't mind me asking:
Was there a time, I mean earlier on, when Wagner was very veerry good? Like was there a time during which her jumps were consistent and she did say a 3Lz-3T and got way higher marks then she does now?
Because there must be a reason that she was called the USA's top skater and since I love her presentation nowadays I'd love to know if there was a time when her Technical ability was equally brilliant.

humbaba · Oct 6, 2014

SimplyAFan said:
While everyone is in here taking about Gracie, Polina, and Ashley what worries me most is skaters like Amber Glenn. She has the technical ability to compete with the best but she hasn't been able to put together one good program so far this season. Even if she didn't beat the Russian ladies, I was hoping she would at least beat her personal best score which, correct me if I'm wrong, she hasn't done.

According to her ISU bio, Amber is still only fourteen years old. It's easy to forget how young she is because she looks mature for her age. Amber's PBs all came during the 2013 JGP season. She did just kind of tread water this season. Amber is tall for a skater (165 cm), so she make be struggling a bit to adjust to her height. I think she would score very well if she could ever put two clean programs together. But for now she is a work in progress. We'll have to be patient, give her a chance to grow up, and see what happens.

kwanatic · Oct 6, 2014

yyyskate said:
^^ Gracie earned her US champion fair and square, and if she is not good enough, she will not be any champion pretty soon. and before that, please pay her due respect. Gracie and her team's responsibility is to do the best they could, not please you. And your anguish/bash towards Gracie will NOT help her in anyway. If you really care about her, why dont you really study Gracie's program and try to give her constructive suggestions.

Nothing I said about Gracie in that post could be considered bashing. It's not bashing someone to say that they should have won...especially when they were projected to win or at least place 2nd. I don't think it's unreasonable to have expected her to beat Alena and Liza T. And if it is then I supposed I've been giving Gracie waaay too much credit.

Trust me, there's no anguish here. I've given constructive criticism a dozen times where she's concerned but seeing as I'm not on the payroll for Team Gold in addition to the fact that I'm a fan on a forum, it really doesn't matter what I say or think, now does it? :sarcasm:

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
This is a bit of undue pressure. At the moment Miyahara and Murakami represent the best Japan has and neither is exactly top tier (although Miyahara had a strong JO skate, even with some URs overlooked).

Not to be an I told you so, but I had said that so many people had a misplaced belief that Gold is without a doubt US #1. It's becoming more apparent that Edmunds is in better shape at this point. One thing I didn't expect though was Wagner to be nailed with so many URs at Japan Open but I'm not hitting the panic button for Gold or Wagner quite yet. Although it was foolish for anyone to think Gold was a solid, indisputable #1 given a) her Worlds 2014 and b) Edmunds, and c) her 3-3 becoming inconsistent. Obviously it's early season but Gold better shape up.

But Gracie was the top skater at that competition. US champ, top 5 at both the Olympics and worlds...that carries a bit of expectation doesn't it? Doesn't it? It's not like she's coming in as the Latvian national champion. Being the US champion means something...or it least it used to.

Maybe I am being too hard on her. Given the history, I've always held the US champion to a higher standard. *sigh* I guess it's time I lower my expectations.:disapp:

samson said:
After reading Kwanatic's fabulous blog (I think I've always known about it but for some reason it didn't click till now!) I finally figured out that Rachael Flatt choreographed Angela Wang's sp to Paint It Black...

Thanks

. I was really blown away by that program. There are really beautiful subtleties to the choreography that pulled me in. It helps that Angela is a gorgeous performer but I could see that being a great program for a number of skaters. Rachael never reached me either but, given this SP and her SP from last season (another one she choreographed herself), I think she has a good amount of talent when it comes to putting together programs. I really hope we get to see more of her work. And I definitely agree about the younger skaters coming in as choreographers. They do add something new and fresh to the mix that we haven't seen in a while.

kwanatic · Oct 6, 2014

starlight97 said:
I know that there are posters here who have been following FS way longer than I have so I hope you don't mind me asking:
Was there a time, I mean earlier on, when Wagner was very veerry good? Like was there a time during which her jumps were consistent and she did say a 3Lz-3T and got way higher marks then she does now?
Because there must be a reason that she was called the USA's top skater and since I love her presentation nowadays I'd love to know if there was a time when her Technical ability was equally brilliant.

Not really. In her junior days she was overshadowed by Caroline Zhang, Rachael Flatt and Mirai. In 2008 she had more difficulty (she was credited with a 3Lz-3L at nationals) but she never really made a splash on the senior level until back in 2011-2012 when she switched to John Nicks. Up until that point she'd been a middle-of-the-pack skater. She earned a few medals on the GP and never placed out of the top 5, which is really great BTW. But no, she was never a technical prodigy and her marks were never that high/impressive.

The reason she was the top skater for about a year and a half is b/c the US was in a slump. No one was stepping up like they wanted to bear the torch...so Ashley stepped up and took it. She's never been the most gifted skater but she worked hard, improved her consistency and confidence and really began to shine. She carried the US champion label really well after winning nationals: she won 4CC, 4th at worlds, 2 golds on the GP that next year and silver at the GPF. When Gracie showed up at nationals in 2013 on a wave of hype, I think that's when Ashley's confidence faltered a bit. She defended her national title by the skin of her teeth and managed to be the top US finisher at worlds again, but it was clear Gracie was catching up to her.

Last year, bad R&J FS aside, she was really strong on the GP b/c she added the 3F-3T and was able to hit it the majority of the time. She maintained her #1 status during the GP but after the GPF last year things started going downhill. Since that disaster at nationals and losing her title to Gracie, it's been a tougher road for Ashley. She continues to fight but she's lost a lot of ground in terms of her positioning. She's definitely a fighter though. I really hope she can get back to her 2012-2013 form...but with this new wave of skaters, I'm doubtful she'll be able to get back to the top.

Thus ends my brief history on Ashley Wagner.

ice coverage · Oct 6, 2014

StitchMonkey said:
ISU Results show Ashley still ranked higher than Gracie. And it looks like that does include this Gracie's most recent win.

(not trying to take sides with anyone or any stance, just posting a link that might interest some and be relevant. . . please ignore the messenger pigeon)

Parachuting into this thread ... and not trying to give Stitch a hard time.

But not sure what you mean by "Gracie's most recent win"??
I can't think of a recent win other than the US championship, which does not count toward ISU World Standings.

In any case, thx for being the messenger pigeon

who posted the ISU link, Stitch.

Re Angela Wang:

I posted in the Frank Carroll mentoring thread that she is one of the skaters who recently had a chance to work with him in Colorado Springs. (Max Aaron is another.)
So I wonder whether FC also worked with any Team Kori skaters in Monument, such as Mariah Bell? :think:

ETA, not to mention Mirai Nagasu in C. Springs. :think: :think:

Mrs. P · Oct 6, 2014

golden411 said:
Parachuting into this thread ... and not trying to give Stitch a hard time.

But not sure what you mean by "Gracie's most recent win"??
I can't think of a recent win other than the US championship, which does not count toward ISU World Standings.

I think what Stitch meant was that the points she earned for Nebelhorn Trophy bronze was included in the overall total. (I guess to point out the fact that the gap is actually larger, if not for that recent addition; Ashley is not competing in any senior Bs.)

starlight97 · Oct 6, 2014

kwanatic said:
Not really. In her junior days she was overshadowed by Caroline Zhang, Rachael Flatt and Mirai. In 2008 she had more difficulty (she was credited with a 3Lz-3L at nationals) but she never really made a splash on the senior level until back in 2011-2012 when she switched to John Nicks. Up until that point she'd been a middle-of-the-pack skater. She earned a few medals on the GP and never placed out of the top 5, which is really great BTW. But no, she was never a technical prodigy and her marks were never that high/impressive.

The reason she was the top skater for about a year and a half is b/c the US was in a slump. No one was stepping up like they wanted to bear the torch...so Ashley stepped up and took it. She's never been the most gifted skater but she worked hard, improved her consistency and confidence and really began to shine. She carried the US champion label really well after winning nationals: she won 4CC, 4th at worlds, 2 golds on the GP that next year and silver at the GPF. When Gracie showed up at nationals in 2013 on a wave of hype, I think that's when Ashley's confidence faltered a bit. She defended her national title by the skin of her teeth and managed to be the top US finisher at worlds again, but it was clear Gracie was catching up to her.

Last year, bad R&J FS aside, she was really strong on the GP b/c she added the 3F-3T and was able to hit it the majority of the time. She maintained her #1 status during the GP but after the GPF last year things started going downhill. Since that disaster at nationals and losing her title to Gracie, it's been a tougher road for Ashley. She continues to fight but she's lost a lot of ground in terms of her positioning. She's definitely a fighter though. I really hope she can get back to her 2012-2013 form...but with this new wave of skaters, I'm doubtful she'll be able to get back to the top.

Thus ends my brief history on Ashley Wagner.

Thank you so much, I didn't hope for such a detailed answer

!
The one skate of her from earlier times that I've watched very often is this one: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FXc8UO8WLTQ
I love the spiral from 2:16 to 2:26 and the whole program. I miss seeing a happy and satisfied Ashley on the ice and in the K&C.
And I think it's an absolute shame that she has so much trouble with her jumps because IMO she has the competitive mind and like you said the fighter's ability to be amazing! I know many people don't like her style but I personally love her Presentation and I would choose it over a little-ice-fairy-oh-so-cute program anytime.
I do agree that she won't likely medal a lot in the future, but I will always enjoy watching a woman on the ice, who shows passion and fire instead of arm waving and a cute smile to monotonous music.
Don't get me wrong both variants of skating should have their place! But I think the latter is taking over in this sport right now and I'm happy to be able to watch some skaters like Ashley who "throw a few spices in the bland soup" like we would say here.

Jammers · Oct 6, 2014

kwanatic said:
Not really. In her junior days she was overshadowed by Caroline Zhang, Rachael Flatt and Mirai. In 2008 she had more difficulty (she was credited with a 3Lz-3L at nationals) but she never really made a splash on the senior level until back in 2011-2012 when she switched to John Nicks. Up until that point she'd been a middle-of-the-pack skater. She earned a few medals on the GP and never placed out of the top 5, which is really great BTW. But no, she was never a technical prodigy and her marks were never that high/impressive.

The reason she was the top skater for about a year and a half is b/c the US was in a slump. No one was stepping up like they wanted to bear the torch...so Ashley stepped up and took it. She's never been the most gifted skater but she worked hard, improved her consistency and confidence and really began to shine. She carried the US champion label really well after winning nationals: she won 4CC, 4th at worlds, 2 golds on the GP that next year and silver at the GPF. When Gracie showed up at nationals in 2013 on a wave of hype, I think that's when Ashley's confidence faltered a bit. She defended her national title by the skin of her teeth and managed to be the top US finisher at worlds again, but it was clear Gracie was catching up to her.

Last year, bad R&J FS aside, she was really strong on the GP b/c she added the 3F-3T and was able to hit it the majority of the time. She maintained her #1 status during the GP but after the GPF last year things started going downhill. Since that disaster at nationals and losing her title to Gracie, it's been a tougher road for Ashley. She continues to fight but she's lost a lot of ground in terms of her positioning. She's definitely a fighter though. I really hope she can get back to her 2012-2013 form...but with this new wave of skaters, I'm doubtful she'll be able to get back to the top.

Thus ends my brief history on Ashley Wagner.

I think at the end of the 2012-13 season Ashley knew that Gracie was right on her heels. Despite not skating totally clean Gracie was losing by less then 4 points at Nationals, Worlds and if not doubling a 3sal would have beat Ashley at the WTT event. I think she knew sooner or later Gracie was going to put it together and would be hard to beat. That still doesn't explain collapsing like she did at Nationals though.

kwanatic · Oct 6, 2014

starlight97 said:
Thank you so much, I didn't hope for such a detailed answer !
The one skate of her from earlier times that I've watched very often is this one: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FXc8UO8WLTQ
I love the spiral from 2:16 to 2:26 and the whole program. I miss seeing a happy and satisfied Ashley on the ice and in the K&C.
And I think it's an absolute shame that she has so much trouble with her jumps because IMO she has the competitive mind and like you said the fighter's ability to be amazing!

You're welcome. Hey, I'm nothing if not thorough.

Ashley's confidence and fighter's spirit is what really made me a fan of hers. She willed her way into that #1 spot in the US and I respected her immensely for that. When the younger girls started rising in the ranks, I feel like her confidence wavered. Now, I feel like the level of talent is getting a bit beyond her reach. A 3F-3T will help to keep her in the mix but I'm afraid even that won't be enough to get her to the top. I'm still a huge fan of Diva Wagner though. I think she's a fabulous performer and is one of the best in the field at embodying a character and selling a program.

Jammers said:
That still doesn't explain collapsing like she did at Nationals though.

I think knowing that she barely won that second title coupled with the pressure of making the Olympic team (which she failed to achieve last time) and the strong performances from everyone else did her in. She completely psyched herself out...man, it was so tough to watch her implode like that especially b/c she'd been skating pretty solidly all season long.

StitchMonkey · Oct 6, 2014

Mrs. P said:
I think what Stitch meant was that the points she earned for Nebelhorn Trophy bronze was included in the overall total. (I guess to point out the fact that the gap is actually larger, if not for that recent addition; Ashley is not competing in any senior Bs.)

This is exactly what I meant. Gracie has points for this season, which I assume is for Nebelhorn (which I have no confidence in my ability to spell) and Ashley does not have any in that row.

ice coverage · Oct 6, 2014

Mrs. P said:
I think what Stitch meant was that the points she earned for Nebelhorn Trophy bronze was included in the overall total. (I guess to point out the fact that the gap is actually larger, if not for that recent addition; Ashley is not competing in any senior Bs.)

StitchMonkey said:
This is exactly what I meant. Gracie has points for this season, which I assume is for Nebelhorn (which I have no confidence in my ability to spell) and Ashley does not have any in that row.

Thank you for the explanations.

Random bits re other U.S. ladies:

Mariah Bell will compete at Southwestern regionals [Oct 18-21] and Tyler Pierce at Southwest Pacific [Oct 11-14].

http://usfigureskating.org/Story.asp?id=50560&type=media

Hannah Miller posted a post-Lombardia blog.

http://figureskatersonline.com/hannahmiller/main/senior-international-debut/ (Oct 5)

This part caught my eye: I had my first practice on Friday and I quickly noticed the rink felt short. I had to alter some of my jump set ups but I quickly got settled in. I guess that taking such adaptations in stride is one of the reasons why competition experience is helpful?

apgold · Oct 6, 2014

Random bits re other U.S. ladies:

Mariah Bell will compete at Southwestern regionals [Oct 18-21]) and Tyler Pierce at Southwest Pacific [Oct 11-14).
http://usfigureskating.org/Story.asp...560&type=media

Hannah Miller posted a post-Lombardia blog.
http://figureskatersonline.com/hanna...ational-debut/ (Oct 5)
This part caught my eye: I had my first practice on Friday and I quickly noticed the rink felt short. I had to alter some of my jump set ups but I quickly got settled in. I guess that taking such adaptations in stride is one of the reasons why competition experience is helpful?

Thanks for the update on two of my favorite "up and comers."

Mista Ekko · Oct 6, 2014

starlight97 said:
Thank you so much, I didn't hope for such a detailed answer !
The one skate of her from earlier times that I've watched very often is this one: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FXc8UO8WLTQ
I love the spiral from 2:16 to 2:26 and the whole program. I miss seeing a happy and satisfied Ashley on the ice and in the K&C.
And I think it's an absolute shame that she has so much trouble with her jumps because IMO she has the competitive mind and like you said the fighter's ability to be amazing! I know many people don't like her style but I personally love her Presentation and I would choose it over a little-ice-fairy-oh-so-cute program anytime.
I do agree that she won't likely medal a lot in the future, but I will always enjoy watching a woman on the ice, who shows passion and fire instead of arm waving and a cute smile to monotonous music.
Don't get me wrong both variants of skating should have their place! But I think the latter is taking over in this sport right now and I'm happy to be able to watch some skaters like Ashley who "throw a few spices in the bland soup" like we would say here.

Just to add another element to the story that would give you more perspective on Ashley's whole Olympic situation,
Here she is at 2010 fighting for a spot in the team after a fall in the short, Finishing 4 points away:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAPG12Ne-yg

State of US Ladies in skating III: 2014-15 Season

R.D.

Icey

R.D.

StitchMonkey

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

R.D.

shine

starlight97

humbaba

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

starlight97

Jammers

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!

StitchMonkey

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605

apgold

Mista Ekko

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