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Thread: Chock and Bates push forward

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    Keepin' it real gsk8's Avatar
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    News Chock and Bates push forward

    After winning silver at their two previous national championships, Madison Chock and Evan Bates took the title at the 2015 U.S. Figure Skating Championships in Greensboro, N.C.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Thanks for the article. I really like this team. Hope they'll go far.

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    I think it is not impossible but they could win world's this year. I don't like them as much as the shibs - mainly because I think the Shibs when on are technically better skaters. I think this team is a little overmarked or liked. I appreciate Madison and maybe it is the timing - there aren't a lot of divas out there and usually divas do well (lol) in dance as to emoting - Bestimanova, Navka, Gritschuk, Usova, Krylova etc. Iwould love to see the Shibs and C and B fight it out much closer.

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    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Thank you for all these interesting interviews Golden Skate!

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    Custom Title humbaba's Avatar
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    Enjoyed the article. Chock and Bates skated two great programs at Nats. Congratulations to them both on their victory.

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    Custom Title Coltrocks12's Avatar
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    I just wish they had more pizzazz. The Shibutanis should have won. I like Chock and Bates as people and have seen Madison's personality in media interviews, but she puts a wall of glass up between her and the audience when she skates. They lack artistry, romance, and connection for me. I thought Shibs should have won and Hawayek/Baker should have been second. I would have had C/B third and H/D fourth. It felt to me like C/B won because it was their turn and not because they are the best. I want to like them but I can't until Madison Chock learns how to emote and bring the audience in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coltrocks12 View Post
    I just wish they had more pizzazz. The Shibutanis should have won. I like Chock and Bates as people and have seen Madison's personality in media interviews, but she puts a wall of glass up between her and the audience when she skates. They lack artistry, romance, and connection for me. I thought Shibs should have won and Hawayek/Baker should have been second. I would have had C/B third and H/D fourth. It felt to me like C/B won because it was their turn and not because they are the best. I want to like them but I can't until Madison Chock learns how to emote and bring the audience in.
    I could not disagree with you more. A wall of glass? I think she's the complete opposite: she's totally projecting TO the audience, but mindful of keeping a connection with Evan. I think she's a first-rate performer, even if her technical abilities aren't at the same level.

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    Custom Title Coltrocks12's Avatar
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    I think we had this discussion in the past in a different thread. More of us were not on team Madison/Evan that were on team Madison/Evan. Some were saying that she emotes too much. To me her face never moves. I think a lot of us were trying to put our finger on a feeling that somehow expression and true emotion don't match. Maybe she gets nervous, and that is why her personality disappears. Maybe she is an introvert (though so is Meryl and she doesn't struggle with this) so that many people in a room make her want to escape into herself. I do remember that some of those that were on team Chock/Bates are the ones who saw them live in Boston (could apply to Greensboro as well) and could see the speed and ice coverage well and felt swept away in their program. Speed and ice coverage don't translate well to television and if she is having a hard time with connecting true emotion to facial expression it is going to read as no connection to Evan to the TV audience. I think it is hard for Samuelson/Bates fans because at least Emily had a feisty sass about her that was refreshing. As to technical, I think they are competent technically but I think the Shibs are better. I can agree to disagree because skating is not only subjective to the judges but to the fans as well. Since they have been crowned champion, at least they have a fanbase. Just don't count me into it.

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    Medalist LyraAngelica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coltrocks12 View Post
    I just wish they had more pizzazz. The Shibutanis should have won. I like Chock and Bates as people and have seen Madison's personality in media interviews, but she puts a wall of glass up between her and the audience when she skates. They lack artistry, romance, and connection for me. I thought Shibs should have won and Hawayek/Baker should have been second. I would have had C/B third and H/D fourth. It felt to me like C/B won because it was their turn and not because they are the best. I want to like them but I can't until Madison Chock learns how to emote and bring the audience in.
    I think the Shibs should've won also. The marks for a lot of couples felt off to me but it's a politics thing most of the time. Chock and Bates have good programs but I didn't feel a connection between them. They have the content but I didn't see the spark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coltrocks12 View Post
    I think we had this discussion in the past in a different thread. More of us were not on team Madison/Evan that were on team Madison/Evan. Some were saying that she emotes too much. To me her face never moves. I think a lot of us were trying to put our finger on a feeling that somehow expression and true emotion don't match. Maybe she gets nervous, and that is why her personality disappears. Maybe she is an introvert (though so is Meryl and she doesn't struggle with this) so that many people in a room make her want to escape into herself. I do remember that some of those that were on team Chock/Bates are the ones who saw them live in Boston (could apply to Greensboro as well) and could see the speed and ice coverage well and felt swept away in their program. Speed and ice coverage don't translate well to television and if she is having a hard time with connecting true emotion to facial expression it is going to read as no connection to Evan to the TV audience. I think it is hard for Samuelson/Bates fans because at least Emily had a feisty sass about her that was refreshing. As to technical, I think they are competent technically but I think the Shibs are better. I can agree to disagree because skating is not only subjective to the judges but to the fans as well. Since they have been crowned champion, at least they have a fanbase. Just don't count me into it.
    C/B are not an especially popular team on this board, but you know, de gustibus non est disputandum. I am a big fan and think their FD this year is sophisticated and deserving of all the medals it has garnered so far. But I will tell you that Madison has always had the reputation of being a terrific performer with charisma galore, and not a great technical skater. Of course YMMV. That's what a discussion board is all about.

    ETA: Wow. Again, I cannot disagree with you more about Emily Samuelson. A terrific technical skater, but lacking in charisma. But different opinions are what makes the world go round I suppose.
    Last edited by WeakAnkles; 02-04-2015 at 03:59 PM.

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    Custom Title merrywidow's Avatar
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    I like both teams but think the Shibutanis made a mistake sticking with Marina. They need to step up their difficulty if they hope to surpass Chock & Bates.

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    I agree that the Shib should get out of Danceland. Marina has wayyyy too many teams and I've never felt like the Shibs have been given choreo that matches their talent. I thought their exhibition piece was farrr better than their free dance this year. I, too, think they are a better team than Chock and Bates and I really don't see C&B getting on the podium at Worlds. I actually find them a tiny bit boring. Different strokes I guess....

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    Keeper of the Kweens OGM. MK's Winter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    I agree that the Shib should get out of Danceland. Marina has wayyyy too many teams and I've never felt like the Shibs have been given choreo that matches their talent. I thought their exhibition piece was farrr better than their free dance this year. I, too, think they are a better team than Chock and Bates and I really don't see C&B getting on the podium at Worlds. I actually find them a tiny bit boring. Different strokes I guess....
    I felt the Shibs should have won as well. I thought their performances at Nationals was the best they performed all season. I don't have anything against Chock and Bates, I think Madison is a wonderful performer but that's where it stops for me. Her skating skills are really not on the same level as the Shibs or even Evan, and it throws the team off for me. She skates on flats a lot, although I feel she has been working hard to get better.

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    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    They are closely matched in the SD. That is quite clear. They were pretty much tied after that segment. The Shibutanis won in TES, C&B in PCS. Even internationally, there wasn't much of a gap in the GPF.

    I do think C&B do have the better FD, from a choreography standpoint. The lifts (such as that crazy statue of liberty one) are super awesome and they have a lot of difficult transitions in and out of the movements. The Shibs' revised dance looked much better, but I can see how it's not as dynamic and lifts just have not been their forte.

    The Shibs should stop getting choreo from Marina (who did their FD) and work more with whoever did their SD (which I think was Scali w/ some ballroom training from Corky Ballas).
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 02-04-2015 at 05:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    They are closely matched in the SD. That is quite clear. They were pretty much tied after that segment. The Shibutanis won in TES, C&B in PCS. Even internationally, there wasn't much of a gap in the GPF.

    I do think C&B do have the better FD, from a choreography standpoint. The lifts (such as that crazy statue of liberty one) are super awesome and they have a lot of difficult transitions in and out of the movements. The Shibs' revised dance looked much better, but I can see how it's not as dynamic and lifts just have not been their forte.

    The Shibs should stop getting choreo from Marina (who did their FD) and work more with whoever did their SD (which I think was Scali w/ some ballroom training from Corky Ballas).


    And you know I'm a bigtime ShibSibs Fan, Mrs P. I actually think the Shibs should have won the SD, but their FD... Le sigh. I agree with you 112% they need a new choreographer for their FDs. On the other hand, I think C/B's FD has some of the best choreography Igor has done in years. It's like he wanted to prove something. And C/B are finally starting to gel as a team (alas, not everyone can have instant gel like I/Z--and as we saw at Euros, even that is no guarantee for a medal).

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