Missing Tdizzle and SDiggity
@AmberGlenn_ tweeted about her SP results today at the Cannon Texas Open:
Originally Posted by Mrs. P
Are Miller, Long and Keiser competing as seniors internationally this season?
I'd say it remains to be seen. The USA's JGP slots are greatly reduced this year. That, and the advent of the Challenger Series, makes me believe at least some of these ladies will opt to go senior and skate in the Challenger Series events.
Originally Posted by Figureskaterr
Catching up on my reading this morning. I think that the US Senior Ladies is going to be filled with inconsistency, with skaters on and off the podium like a cheap prom dress. In total agreement with the comments about Polina still being coltish. Yes, she has ability, but let's hope that for starters her costumers help her look less childish and more like a "senior" lady. Can't help thinking that the yellow feathers of last season made her look like one of the chicks in the incubators at the state fair. Would really love to see Sam Cesario on the podium o a regular basis. She's a fabulous skater - very passionate and at times provocative - and uses her music/choreo very well to promote her program's PoV. Don't really know what USFS is seeing in Ashley Cain - what's this move to SCoNY all about, anyway?? IMO nothing more than a quintessential ice princess with an excuse for every misstep. Mirai might still have enough juice to knock a couple of competitions out of the park in her favor. Have to tell you, her James Bond free skate at Nationals was incredible. If she can channel that kind of energy and passion and remember how supportive the audience was back in January, she could be a real surprise this season. Isn't she doing some training in CO? She'd be great with Brian Orser or Yuka Sato if she's willing to relocate. Still wondering if Christina Gao will show up this season. My all event ticket for Nationals was just behind "Kiss and Cry" and she was a total mess at the end of that free skate. She also had rows of kinesio tape all over her. Can't help wondering exactly how injured she was last season and if she has healed? As far as Gracie Gold is concerned, if Frank can work to keep her new found ego in check and work ethic on her plate, she could further develop her presentation and find herself in a good position come January 2015. As far as Ms. Wagner is concerned, perhaps it is time to step aside. USFS gave her the chance last season that she wanted for the Olympic Team, and quite frankly (again IMO), she squandered it. There are so many youngsters just waiting for the door to open...Francesca Chiera, for one, who is entering her second season as a Senior Lady, and certainly a host of talented junior ladies who still have a month to test to Senior for the qualifying season. USFS will have much to watch over the next two years, to be sure.
So Polina is coltish and dresses funny---but she can and did land SEVEN triples in her Worlds FS at first try and is a seeded skater in the GP this year. Ashley Cain is a headscratcher ---- but she did beat Mirai Nagasu at Broadmoor. Mirai Nagasu had a decent James Bond FS at Nationals ---- but did it with an expressionless face and was gasping for air at the end (I was in the front row). Wagner should step aside after her excellent performances at Sochi and Worlds? Who would have done better? Certainly not Mirai after her disastrous 4CC! If Ashley can continue to outperform the other ladies she has no reason to retire.
I think that after 2015 Worlds, Ashley is going to retire. I think she technically can keep up with the up and coming Russian and American ladies, but I think the judges will score them higher than her in the artistic side of the scores. I think Gracie will win nationals again, Polina will finish second, Glenn third, and Wagner fourth.
2016 Worlds is in Boston so I doubt she'd retire before then, I actually think the opposite of you, her tech content is not up to par, a lot of the younger girls have much better spins and consistent 3-3s, Ashley is much better at connecting with her audience and selling her programs in my opinion. If the younger girls are consistent, their PCs will naturally go up but Ashley's can too.
Originally Posted by Skategmt
I agree. I expect Ashley to slide down the national and international rankings. Technically, she cannot compete with Polina Edmunds or the Russian girls. Her jumps (URs and no real 3-3 combo), spins and footwork are not up to par.
Originally Posted by Krunchii
Rejoicing in the land of Kwan
I do think that Ashley really performs well and brings that level of maturity and polish that some of the younger girls lack; but unfortunately for her, nearly all of the younger girls have caught up to/surpassed her in terms of PCS (Julia, Adelina, Gold, even Anna), which wasn't the case last season until after the GPF. That was the one thing she had over some of the younger skaters and now, I feel as though that advantage is gone which means she doesn't have any wiggle room. She's got to be perfect and even if she is, all of the Russians and both Gold and Edmunds can outscore her technically.
Ashley's in a really tough place. I think she can still medal or place top 5 but I think her days of standing on a major podium (GPF, possibly 4CC, worlds) are over at this point. The field is even more stacked than it was this past quad. Mao, Carolina and Yu-Na ruled the last quad; in this upcoming quad we have Lipnitskaya, Sotnikova, Radionova, Gold, Pogorilaya, and now Edmunds. The competition is twice as deep as it was a year ago. I really think Ashley missed her shot at a world medal back in 2012 when she placed 4th. Barring some rather epic meltdowns from at least 3 of those girls, I don't see Ashley making it to the world podium. Nationally, she can can still medal (for now), but internationally I think the judges will start to lowball her given the competition she's up against.
The level of talent has gone over her head at this point. I do want her to continue to compete and skate well...I just hope that she's being realistic about her chances when it comes to winning the bigger titles...
08-07-2014, 10:03 PM
We shall see about Wagner (and everyone else for that matter). The odds are stacked immensely against her and I agree with those who all but say she is finished. However, if anyone has the resolve to turn things around, it is her. We see what she did in 2012, so if she puts her mind to it, who knows what can happen. But another thing working against her is time. Athletes only have a limited window in which they can put out their highest performance. Age and mileage (the number of years skated), so to speak. Even the most reliable of cars eventually shows its age and begins to break down.
The most recent case study, of course, is Czisny. I usually shy away from suggesting that skaters should retire, as it is ultimately their choice. Wagner has managed to avoid major injury for almost 8 years, but if she continues to 2018, especially considering where she wants to go, and what the top skaters are doing now - I think one is inevitable, unfortunately...Not wishing it on her, of course, but it's gonna be tough to put it mildly.
If Wagner remains healthy this season, this may be it - her last chance to make something happen. Because after this year, the new generation kicks in and the tech bar will be raised even higher.
08-07-2014, 10:23 PM
Rejoicing in the land of Kwan
I do agree and I won't count her out yet. The only difference is back in 2012 there was a much bigger gap in the field in terms of competition: Yu-Na was gone; Mao was still struggling to get her jumps back; Carolina was doing TES-lite programs...I don't think any of the top ladies did anything harder than a 3T-3T that year. That was the year the podium was open to her. Had she knocked both programs out of the park she may have placed 2nd or even 1st.
Originally Posted by R.D.
Fast forward to 2014 and it's a completely different story. Not only are there 3-3s in every program, there are even two in some. I'm not even sure a solid 3F-3T would solve all of her problems at this point...it would definitely help but I don't think a clean Ashley with a 3F-3T will beat Julia, Adelina or Gracie if they skate clean or nearly clean--just look at worlds from last year. I feel like the judges will leave them room to make a mistake. Ashley doesn't have that luxury anymore.
08-08-2014, 11:03 AM
In search of a summer sport to love <3
I agree with the thoughts on Ashley hanging around through '16. Technically, she has been passed by. But, if she can stay in the top 10 at Worlds for the next 2 years, that's not shabby at all. And though she skated well at the end of the season this year, there has to be a bit of a bittersweet taste in her mouth after the controversy surrounding her being named to both teams. I hope she stays injury free and can make the 3 lady team this year. Especially since Mao and Carolina will not be around. Ashley's a very mature presence. She's one of my favorites, and it would be nice to see such a hard worker exit on her own terms.
08-08-2014, 11:11 AM
We might have a very promising flight of skaters looking to take over the reins right now, but who knows what will happen? Some might fizzle out, some might fade away, some might be marred by injuries.
Wagner has a great connection to the music and fantastic emoting abilities, which is something the more technically advances skaters (Russians, Gold, Edmunds) lack.
08-08-2014, 12:00 PM
ISU judges give Wagner high PCS scores in recognition of her excellent musical interpretation abilities. It's going to take Edmunds years to achieve that level of skill, and I'm not sure Gold has the native ability to ever get to Wagner's level.
08-08-2014, 05:10 PM
It won't matter much if Gracie is consistent she will get as high if not higher PCS scores then Ashley.
Originally Posted by chuckm