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Thread: Ilya Averbukh discusses Worlds,break up of I/K, Lipnitskaya, etc etc

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    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    News Ilya Averbukh discusses Worlds,break up of I/K, Lipnitskaya, etc etc

    Ilya Averbukh summed up the world championship in figure skating - 2014 in Japan

    http://m.vk.com/article1310161312_16...9fb72439e3d2ac


     
    The award-winning Russian figure skater Ilya Averbukh, summing up the World Cup - 2014 in Japan, told "Gazeta.ru" about the causes of the collapse of the duo Elena Il'inykh / Nikita Katsalapova and noted that Julia Lipnitskaya one season became a symbol of women's figure skating.

    Olympic silver medalist in Salt Lake City in ice dancing Ilya Averbukh, acting in tandem with Irina Lobacheva, summed up the world championship in figure skating - 2014, which ended on Sunday in Saitama Prefecture. The assets of the Russian team two silver medals. In sports competitions became the second pair Ksenia Stolbova / Fedor Klimov, managed to replicate the results shown at the Games in Sochi. Another award in the treasury of our team brought 15-year-old Olympic champion in the team competition Julia Lipnitskaya. Maxim Kovtun and dance duo Elena Il'inykh / Nikita Katsalapov finished the performance in Japan in the step of the podium.

    - Ilya, what do you know about the decay of the pair Elena Il'inykh Katsalapova and Nikita? Their coach Nikolai Morozov and the children themselves do not confirm the information, but, as they say, no smoke without fire happens ...
    - And no one but themselves Lena, Nikita and Nicholas, to this question you can not answer.

    - You really do not know or just can not yet comment on this information?
    - Why? All I can comment on. If I had some details about this situation, I would have told you everything. But at the moment like I do not have information. As far as I know, all these rumors was most surprised by their coach. And the most insulting, that all this rigmarole spinning before the show guys. I think that ultimately it affected their final result.

    - I'm sure the guys were counting on the world championship for more than fourth place, especially after the "Bronze" for success at the Olympics?

    - I'll tell you this: we all expected more. And you and I. After all, if it was not a mistake on the twizzle in the short dance, Lena and Nikita would become world champions. They had a chance, but they did not use.

    On the other hand, no one is immune from such errors. But I have repeatedly drawn the attention of the press that it is on Twizzles partner stopped fighting. I do not understand why he did not go to the following combination? It will remain a mystery to me.

    - Maybe we should look for the cause in the post-Olympic fatigue?
    - Yes, not without it. But at the time I did not allow myself to throw items so even in training. It is clear that a mistake could prevent Nikita and due to excessive excitement. But let's talk objectively all couples competed in Japan, were on equal footing.

    - By the way, many people have complained about the crazy schedule of training and competition, which made the organizers. Nikita was indignant about this, perhaps more active than others.

    - Again, all were on an equal footing. And the Italians, the French, and Canadians.

    - If the duo Il'inykh Katsalapova and still fall apart, what you see is the main reason?
    - We all see only the outer shell of a beautiful figure skating - and ice dancing in particular, and in fact the guys every day to spend six to eight hours together on the ice and in the hall. As practice shows, if the skaters really unbearable train and perform with each other, it is better to separate.

    - But in sports there are examples when athletes, gritting his teeth, and suffered reunited for a single purpose, such as Olympic gold. If we recall the history of our bobsleigh Alexander Zubkov and Alexey Governors ...
    - Everyone makes their own choices. Go through it, to endure can not all. Lena and Nikita came to the peak shape for the Olympics, coped brilliantly with their programs, eventually won two medals. For this he thanks.

    - Do you think if Ekaterina Bobrova and Dmitry Solovyov not withdrew from the competition, they would be able to compete for the prizes of the world championship?
    - With a rental, which they showed at the Olympics, I think, yes. I note militant Katie and Dima. They are great lads. Despite the fact that they became Olympic champions in the team, they are very disappointed with the result shown in the individual tournament in Sochi. Still, figure skating - is primarily an individual sport. The main thing is that the guys have a desire to work, continue to train, perform, conquer new heights. And Alexander Zhulin help them to achieve these results.

    - If Julia Lipnitskaya fell off a jump in the free skate, it could overtake Mao Asada?
    - Here I agree with Julia. I think that at home Asada Russian woman just would not give gold even under ideal hire.

    And Julia this season literally became a symbol of women's singles figure skating. And sometimes it is more important than all the medals and titles. She charmed the world with its directness, purity. And the world loved her not only the braids and bright eyes, and high professionalism.

    It takes the complex elements in its asset complicated set of jumps. Work with Julia - great fun. We already are thinking about what images and music, select the next season. But this year was a hundred percent hit, if we talk about the performances. Hopefully, it will delight us all in the future.

    - From Julia, 15-year-old girl, after such complex forces Olympics?
    - She's a real fighter. Olympics made of Julia another person. She found confidence and strength, and motivation to train, prepare, once again go on the ice. This once again demonstrates its high sporting professionalism. Julia skated the short program that called for aortic rupture.

    - Figure skater Aliona Savchenko, representing Germany in pairs, will continue his career in tandem with the Frenchman Bruno Musso. In your opinion, this duo has a future?
    - It is very difficult to discuss this topic. Remember four years ago, Tatiana Volosozhar and Maxim Trankov, too, no one believed. Let's not get ahead of ourselves, because as far as I know, some of the partners have yet to be a long process to change citizenship.

    Read other news, materials and statistics on the page you can winter sports.

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    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Ilya seems very direct and honest. Truest Russian approach you'd expect. Great insight from the inside of the skating world!

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    The hypocrisy of decrying the rumors about I/K is rich considering, to my knowledge, not a single Russian skater or coach or federation member decried the pre-Olympics rumor in L'Equipe--which was planted by a conveniently anonymous Russian coach. I would be happy to be proved wrong, but I'm not holding my breath that I will be.

    Same hypocrisy with decrying that Julia couldn't possibly win a gold medal in Japan against a Japanese skater. By that same logic, no non-Russian female skater had a chance in Sochi, did they? It really is poor, picked on Russia for Ilya.

    And please, can we go past this fiction that if I/K hadn't stumbled on the twizzles in the SD they would have won? After all, they skated a near perfect SD at Euros and then lost in the LD with Elena's mistake. Nothing like hindsight to rewrite history.

    More non-denials about an I/K breakup.

    Well at least he sounds honest, though much of this is the standard party line, so to speak. Thank you for posting it.

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    WeakAnkles has amazing ability to turn anything into anti-Russian rant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whatif View Post
    WeakAnkles has amazing ability to turn anything into anti-Russian rant.
    This is a free board. By all means feel free to argue with what I've said. Name me a single Russian skater, fed member or coach who protested the L'Equipe article. Tell me when have past performances ever guaranteed present ones, particularly with a team who has a history of making mistakes in the past. Tell me why shouldn't someone extend Averbukh's own logic to what happened in Sochi.

    And the thing is, Russian skating is so good and there is so much obvious and abundant talent that they don't need these shenanigans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whatif View Post
    WeakAnkles has amazing ability to turn anything into anti-Russian rant.


    Yagudin's interview about worlds: http://news.sportbox.ru/Vidy_sporta/...gotov-k-Olimpi

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    Yuzulia & Ruslena Team Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    Ilya seems very direct and honest. Truest Russian approach you'd expect. Great insight from the inside of the skating world!
    This translation need some serious correction, because some of what he said about I&K doesn't make sense.
    Also this is something which I don't belive Yulia said: "- Here I agree with Julia. I think that at home Asada Russian woman just would not give gold even under ideal hire." Although I know what Eteri think.

    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    to my knowledge, not a single Russian skater or coach or federation member decried the pre-Olympics rumor in L'Equipe--which was planted by a conveniently anonymous Russian coach. I would be happy to be proved wrong, but I'm not holding my breath that I will be.
    U.S. Figure Skating called that "rumor" as “categorically false.” Did that change anything to those who belived and still belive in those rumors?

    Same hypocrisy with decrying that Julia couldn't possibly win a gold medal in Japan against a Japanese skater. By that same logic, no non-Russian female skater had a chance in Sochi, did they? It really is poor, picked on Russia for Ilya.

    And please, can we go past this fiction that if I/K hadn't stumbled on the twizzles in the SD they would have won? After all, they skated a near perfect SD at Euros and then lost in the LD with Elena's mistake. Nothing like hindsight to rewrite history.
    It's not rewriting history. It's obvious he's speaking in retrospect and saying "would have won".
    It's llike saying about Mao in Sochi "pity for the SP otherwise she could've been on the podium" (actually a lot are saying even with that short she should've been on the podium. ). Nothing wrong with that.

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    Yuzulia & Ruslena Team Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElenaNikitaFan View Post
    Thank you. Saying what exactly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    This translation need some serious correction, because some of what he said about I&K doesn't make sense.
    Also this is something which I don't belive Yulia said: "- Here I agree with Julia. I think that at home Asada Russian woman just would not give gold even under ideal hire." Although I know what Eteri think.



    U.S. Figure Skating called that "rumor" as “categorically false.” Did that change anything to those who belived and still belive in those rumors?






    It's not rewriting history. It's obvious he's speaking in retrospect and saying "would have won".
    It's llike saying about Mao in Sochi "pity for the SP otherwise she could've been on the podium" (actually a lot are saying even with that short she should've been on the podium. ). Nothing wrong with that.

    Let's take each of your points in turn.

    1. I'm simply going by the translation about his agreeing with Julia about her not having a chance in Japan. If the translation is wrong, I would reassess what I said and correct it if necessary. But you can't use one kind of logic in situation A and then not expect someone to use the same logic in situation B.

    2. L'Equipe Article. You completely missed my point. A similar situation would have been if a coach from the US team after the team event said, Oh that L'Equipe article so upset our team. We would have won gold if it hadn't been printed. Don't remember hearing anything like that. For the record, it doesn't matter when someone says, This kind of rumor-mongering is wrong, if it changes anyone's opinion. It is right to say it. So I will say it. This rumor planting as a kind of psychological warfare is wrong no matter who does it. I'd say the same thing if an American coach planted a rumor. It's gutless. But it is a matter of historical record that an anonymous Russian coach did spread a rumor to a French newspaper. And it is a matter of historical record that not a single Russian skater, coach or federation member said anything about it.

    3. Woulda. Coulda. Shoulda. Doesn't matter. You can never use past results to guarantee future ones. Ice is slippery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    This translation need some serious correction, because some of what he said about I&K doesn't make sense.
    Also this is something which I don't belive Yulia said: "- Here I agree with Julia. I think that at home Asada Russian woman just would not give gold even under ideal hire." Although I know what Eteri think.
    He said: "I agree with Julia that in Japan she would not have easily received gold even with ideal skating". That's somewhat milder than the translation. Also funny is the phrase: "Julia skated the short program that called for aortic rupture". That's was not a good direct translation of the expression which meant that she gave her all in SP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by samkrut@mail.ru View Post
    He said: "I agree with Julia that in Japan she would not have easily received gold even with ideal skating". That's somewhat milder than the translation. Also funny is the phrase: "Julia skated the short program that called for aortic rupture". That's was not a good direct translation of the expression which meant that she gave her all in SP.
    Thank you. That is a much milder. But then again, using his own logic, in Sochi no non-Russian skater would have easily received gold even with ideal skating. And given the historical record, there is something to that.

    Ask Sarah Hughes.

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    Yuzulia & Ruslena Team Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    Let's take each of your points in turn.

    1. I'm simply going by the translation about his agreeing with Julia about her not having a chance in Japan. If the translation is wrong, I would reassess what I said and correct it if necessary. But you can use one kind of logic in situation A and then not expect someone to use the same logic in situation B.
    No I'm sorry but I don't understand what you're talking about? My comment was referred to Sam-Skwantch, not to you.
    I was saying that based on that translation: a) I have no idea what Averbuch is saying about I&K splitting. Most of the phrasing doesn't make sense to me therefore I don't understand. b) Since the translation is not properly done, from what I can understand, I thought it would be better to corrected and be sure because I don't think she (Yulia) said it. This just my opinion though, I might be very well wrong.



    2. L'Equipe Article. You completely missed my point. A similar situation would have been if a coach from the US team after the team event said, Oh that L'Equipe article so upset our team. We would have won gold if it hadn't been printed. Don't remember hearing anything like that. For the record, it doesn't matter when someone says, This kind of rumor-mongering is wrong, if it changes anyone's opinion. It is right to say it. So I will say it. This rumor planting as a kind of psychological warfare is wrong no matter who does it. I'd say the same thing if an American coach planted a rumor. It's gutless.
    You see I had no idea that Averbukh was saying that. Anyway, it's not the same thing and not a similar situation at all.
    Articles like that of L'Equipe don't have that kind of influence to upset a team - and it's definitely not the same thing - as it may have to speak about a couple splitting. Especially if one of the partners has no clue. If the rumors are true of course.
    P&B more or less said the same thing. Virtue or Moir said something like that as well, if I'm not mistaken.

    But it is a matter of historical record that an anonymous Russian coach did spread a rumor to a French newspaper. And it is a matter of historical record that not a single Russian skater, coach or federation member said anything about it.
    Historical record? Is it a rumor or is it a fact?


    3. Woulda. Coulda. Shoulda. Doesn't matter. You can never use past results to guarantee future ones. Ice is slippery
    What do you mean use past result to guarantee future ones?
    It's perfectly normal to analyse a competition, performance, after it has been done. Make a judgement and say "Oh pity for that mistake. Given the performances and the scores, even with the mistake, they could've easily been World Champions".
    Many italian fans are saying the same thing, they're not saying pity though, they're saying thanks. . Some of the commentators said the same, including British Eurosport making the calculations on the twizzles points and adding those points to the final scores for I&K.
    Ita Eurosport thought I&K could still win it, even after the SD, with a clean performance in FD. Nothing wrong about that, IMO.
    I don't agree with you that Woulda. Coulda. Shoulda. Doesn't matter. It does matter because it shows you that how much you might've improved, that judges liked your program, your skating, etc.etc. and that you're on the right track.

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    Quote Originally Posted by samkrut@mail.ru View Post
    He said: "I agree with Julia that in Japan she would not have easily received gold even with ideal skating". That's somewhat milder than the translation. Also funny is the phrase: "Julia skated the short program that called for aortic rupture". That's was not a good direct translation of the expression which meant that she gave her all in SP.
    Thank you.

    So he is saying that Yulia said that, or at least she thinks that, am I right? I'm asking because Eteri said something like that before, but I'm surprised that Yulia will follow her on this. If that's true than she is wrong about it, and tbh I don't like her speaking and lamenting about judging.

    p.s. I don't know why is he moaning about it though. She didn't gave an "ideal skating", so why bring this argument?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    This is a free board. By all means feel free to argue with what I've said. Name me a single Russian skater, fed member or coach who protested the L'Equipe article. Tell me when have past performances ever guaranteed present ones, particularly with a team who has a history of making mistakes in the past. Tell me why shouldn't someone extend Averbukh's own logic to what happened in Sochi.

    And the thing is, Russian skating is so good and there is so much obvious and abundant talent that they don't need these shenanigans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    No I'm sorry but I don't understand what you're talking about? My comment was referred to Sam-Skwantch, not to you.
    I was saying that based on that translation: a) I have no idea what Averbuch is saying about I&K splitting. Most of the phrasing doesn't make sense to me therefore I don't understand. b) Since the translation is not properly done, from what I can understand, I thought it would be better to corrected and be sure because I don't think she (Yulia) said it. This just my opinion though, I might be very well wrong.
    I responded to this in a previous post. It was a problem with the translation and I have emended my response accordingly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    You see I had no idea that Averbukh was saying that. Anyway, it's not the same thing and not a similar situation at all.
    Articles like that of L'Equipe don't have that kind of influence to upset a team - and it's definitely not the same thing - as it may have to speak about a couple splitting. Especially if one of the partners has no clue. If the rumors are true of course.
    P&B more or less said the same thing. Virtue or Moir said something like that as well, if I'm not mistaken.
    I was responding more to Averbukh saying, "And the most insulting, that all this rigmarole spinning before the show guys." Well the L'Equipe article is pretty much an analogous situation: right before a major event, someone--in that case, a Russian coach, reports a rumor to the media which then prints it. Well all I'm asking is, why didn't Averbukh or ANY Russian say how insulting that was, given the timing of the article? If you're silent when something execrable like that is done to your competition, don't expect a lot of sympathy when the same thing is done to you. In this case, by your own media (if I am not mistaken, the rumor was first printed March 26 on sports.ru).


    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    Historical record? Is it a rumor or is it a fact?
    Yes, it is a matter of historical record that the source of the rumor printed by L'Equipe is an anonymous Russian coach. You can google it and read it yourself in black and white. Historians hundreds of years from now will be able, as long the record survives, to do the same. And I've asked anyone who reads this to provide any evidence in any media whatsoever if a single Russian skater, federation member or coach said anything about it. Still waiting.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    What do you mean use past result to guarantee future ones?
    It's perfectly normal to analyse a competition, performance, after it has been done. Make a judgement and say "Oh pity for that mistake. Given the performances and the scores, even with the mistake, they could've easily been World Champions".
    Many italian fans are saying the same thing (they're not saying pity though, they're saying thanks. ) and some of the commentators, including British Eurosport. Actually Ita Eurosport thought I&K could still win it, even after the SD, with a clean performance.
    Nothing wrong about that, IMO.
    What you're saying is very different from what Averbukh said. You're qualifying remarks: "they could've easily been World Champions," they "could still win it." And you're right. There is nothing wrong with that. In all probability, if they skated a clean SD AND a clean FD they probably would have won. But what Averbukh says is something different: they WOULD have won it without the mistake. And making the unspoken assumption that everyone, of course, knows that to be true. And in a sport where reputation can unfairly influence scoring, that kind of assumption should be immediately challenged and put into its proper perspective: they could have won. It wasn't the historical inevitability Averbukh assumes it would be--and would like everyone else to believe.

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