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Thread: Ilya Averbukh discusses Worlds,break up of I/K, Lipnitskaya, etc etc

  1. #16
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    Yulia said herself: ' I had no chance of winning the world championship in Japan againt Asada, even if I did clean Salchow.' (not sure about my grammar, but you get the picture).

    But she said that not about judging. She obviously meant that Asada skated very well.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    Thank you.

    So he is saying that Yulia said that, or at least she thinks that, am I right? I'm asking because Eteri said something like that before, but I'm surprised that Yulia will follow her on this. If that's true than she is wrong about it, and tbh I don't like her speaking and lamenting about judging.

    p.s. I don't know why is he moaning about it though. She didn't gave an "ideal skating", so why bring this argument?
    For me it's not a crime by any means. There was a big hype in Russia. I would assess the ratio pro-con Sotnikova as 70-30 even among "russkie". With thousands of posts 30% is a lot. And haters said directly: "no chances for you now in Japan and in 2018 in Korea". It is easy to say: "just dismiss". Wiser person would think but be silent. But when you are 15 year old and as direct as Yulia she just says what she thinks and I would never blame her for that.

  3. #18
    Yulia forver! I'm on team dumped Ice Dance. Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samkrut@mail.ru View Post
    For me it's not a crime by any means. There was a big hype in Russia. I would assess the ratio pro-con Sotnikova as 70-30 even among "russkie". With thousands of posts 30% is a lot. And haters said directly: "no chances for you now in Japan and in 2018 in Korea". It is easy to say: "just dismiss". Wiser person would think but be silent. But when you are 15 year old and as direct as Yulia she just says what she thinks and I would never blame her for that.
    I'm not saying it's a crime, although I do think it's better to keep a low profile when it comes to judging, especially if you're a russian and with Sochi debate still fresh.
    My point was, still is, that judging from her reaction after a perfect SP and the LP. She doesn't seems to think that way.
    She is genuinely a fan of Carolina, and for example she said "I knew I would be 3rd if I sakted clean". The reason for that I suppose, and that's how I interpreted that statement, is that Mao and Caro (which is not from Japan) are better if they saktes clean too.

    @Snow63
    But she said that not about judging. She obviously meant that Asada skated very well.
    That's what I mean, when I speak about her reaction and the statement she made after the SP. But Ilia seems to think that it's because the home factor. These are completely two different views.

  4. #19
    Yulia forver! I'm on team dumped Ice Dance. Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    I was responding more to Averbukh saying, "And the most insulting, that all this rigmarole spinning before the show guys." Well the L'Equipe article is pretty much an analogous situation: right before a major event, someone--in that case, a Russian coach, reports a rumor to the media which then prints it. Well all I'm asking is, why didn't Averbukh or ANY Russian say how insulting that was, given the timing of the article? If you're silent when something execrable like that is done to your competition, don't expect a lot of sympathy when the same thing is done to you. In this case, by your own media (if I am not mistaken, the rumor was first printed March 26 on sports.ru).
    Yes it was done by the russina media. I suppose he's talking about them, but above all about the person who leaked the info.
    So I don't think there is an analogy to be made with the Russians not saying anything about L'Equipe article tbh.


    Yes, it is a matter of historical record that the source of the rumor printed by L'Equipe is an anonymous Russian coach. You can google it and read it yourself in black and white. Historians hundreds of years from now will be able, as long the record survives, to do the same. And I've asked anyone who reads this to provide any evidence in any media whatsoever if a single Russian skater, federation member or coach said anything about it. Still waiting.
    My question is, is it a rumor or is it a fact that the deal was done and the source was a russian coach? I asked for proves. Still waiting.
    You see, I have another film in my mind and could be even better and closer to the truth than l'Equipe article.



    What you're saying is very different from what Averbukh said. You're qualifying remarks: "they could've easily been World Champions," they "could still win it." And you're right. There is nothing wrong with that. In all probability, if they skated a clean SD AND a clean FD they probably would have won. But what Averbukh says is something different: they WOULD have won it without the mistake. And making the unspoken assumption that everyone, of course, knows that to be true. And in a sport where reputation can unfairly influence scoring, that kind of assumption should be immediately challenged and put into its proper perspective: they could have won. It wasn't the historical inevitability Averbukh assumes it would be--and would like everyone else to believe
    .

    Well speaking in retrospect, and judging by the scores, they WOULD have won it without mistakes. That's what he is saying, I belive.
    Unless you think the judges gave those scores to them just for pity, or any other motive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    Yes it was done by the russina media. I suppose he's talking about them, but above all about the person who leaked the info.
    So I don't think there is an analogy to be made with the Russians not saying anything about L'Equipe article tbh.

    My question is, is it a rumor or is it a fact that the deal was done and the source was a russian coach? I asked for proves. Still waiting.
    You see, I have another film in my mind and could be even better and closer to the truth than l'Equipe article.

    Well speaking in retrospect, and judging by the scores, they WOULD have won it without mistakes. That's what he is saying, I belive.
    Unless you think the judges gave those scores to them just for pity, or any other motive.

    Like I said, you can google it. So can historians. As far as the analogy, we'll just agree to disagree. A respected newspaper like L'Equipe would be in a precarious position if it were found to be making up a story that hot. So yes, given the credibility of L'Equipe, I would believe an anonymous Russian coach leaked the rumor. The credibility of the anonymous Russian coach and the rumor itself, however, are another matter altogether.

    Sorry but no one can say for certain anyone WOULD win an event in ice skating based on previous results. Ice is slippery. I/K are prone to making mistakes. Scoring can be flukey. Who would have thought C/L would win Worlds before they did?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    She is genuinely a fan of Carolina, and for example she said "I knew I would be 3rd if I sakted clean".
    Not exactly that. She gave an interview just after SP and sounded more like a fatalist than like a person ready to blame judges or to praise Mao and Caro: "I was sure that I will be the third. We with my mother noted that my hotel room has two "3", my start number is 30, my group is 6, my turn in the group is the third. So it was already decided above". Her exact quote on the final result is somewhat controversial: "did you see the difference in the scores? I had no chances to win the world championship over Asada in Japan even with the clean salkhov. The difference would still stay".

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    Quote Originally Posted by samkrut@mail.ru View Post
    Not exactly that. She gave an interview just after SP and sounded more like a fatalist than like a person ready to blame judges or to praise Mao and Caro: "I was sure that I will be the third. We with my mother noted that my hotel room has two "3", my start number is 30, my group is 6, my turn in the group is the third. So it was already decided above". Her exact quote on the final result is somewhat controversial: "did you see the difference in the scores? I had no chances to win the world championship over Asada in Japan even with the clean salkhov. The difference would still stay".
    There's nothing about judging in this quote. She basically said that difference in the scores was bigger than base value of the clean triple salchow .

    She just pointed that Asada skated very well and her marks were great, nothing more IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    More non-denials about an I/K breakup.
    Probably because he has no right to deny or confirm anything since he's not Ilinykh, not Katasalapov and not even their coach?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snow63 View Post
    Probably because he has no right to deny or confirm anything since he's not Ilinykh, not Katasalapov and not even their coach?
    I just thought it was interesting that no one is actually denying the rumor. Or seem particularly surprised by it, to be honest. And I also liked that he said everyone was skating under the same conditions at Worlds. They were.

  10. #25
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    **I probably should have posted a disclaimer that I used a translator app in order to share this story. Obviously some literal translation may be lost. To be honest most of my translations have been said to be quite accurate but I should have made a disclaimer.

    I took Yulia's / Ilya's comments about not having much chance as a thing of respect for Mao and not implying Judging issues at all. I figured it was due to her score going into the FS, the crowds reaction after Mao's skate coupled with Mao's skill and chances of going clean at home were all enogh reason that even a landed Salchow would not have been enough. Honestly I think she thought she was off of the podium when she fell and she may have been referring to that too. She seemed genuinely surprised to be in second. She usually only critics herself so anything else would be out of character. You guys are making something out of nothing IMO.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    I took Yulia's / Ilya's comments about not having much chance as a thing of respect for Mao and not implying Judging issues at all. I figured it was due to her score going into the FS, the crowds reaction after Mao's skate coupled with Mao's skill and chances of going clean at home were all enogh reason that even a landed Salchow would not have been enough.
    And that's exectly what I had been trying to say
    Not so sure about Ilya's statement though. I need to see russian version of the article first (I can't see it since VK is blocked at my working network), I think that his statement may have different context, despite the fact that he 'agrees' with Yulia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    You guys are making something out of nothing IMO.
    I am the biggest fan of Julia. Yuna, Mao, Caro are nice to watch but for me that's it. For example, it would be lightyears from my decision to reg here and post if I did not see Julia (team Olympics for the first time btw and was "devastated"). Yulia brought emotions I could not imagine, brought excitement - now I plan to go to the next Russian nationals and even to bring my son to FS in a couple of years (he is 1.5 now). I was just referring to semantics: there's a clear difference between "to win the championship in Japan over Asada" - the emphasis is on Asada being good and "to win the championship over Asada in Japan" - the emphasis is arguable.

  13. #28
    Yulia forver! I'm on team dumped Ice Dance. Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    Sorry but no one can say for certain anyone WOULD win an event in ice skating based on previous results.
    It was not a previous result, that's what I'm trying to say. It's about the result they got in this championship.

    Quote Originally Posted by samkrut@mail.ru View Post
    Not exactly that. She gave an interview just after SP and sounded more like a fatalist than like a person ready to blame judges or to praise Mao and Caro: "I was sure that I will be the third. We with my mother noted that my hotel room has two "3", my start number is 30, my group is 6, my turn in the group is the third. So it was already decided above".
    No I had no idea about this number thing. Interesting.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    I took Yulia's / Ilya's comments about not having much chance as a thing of respect for Mao and not implying Judging issues at all. I figured it was due to her score going into the FS, the crowds reaction after Mao's skate coupled with Mao's skill and chances of going clean at home were all enogh reason that even a landed Salchow would not have been enough. Honestly I think she thought she was off of the podium when she fell and she may have been referring to that too. She seemed genuinely surprised to be in second. She usually only critics herself so anything else would be out of character. You guys are making something out of nothing IMO.
    That's what I think too. But this sounds very different though or is it just me? English is not my first language so I might get it wrong.

    Her exact quote on the final result is somewhat controversial: "did you see the difference in the scores? I had no chances to win the world championship over Asada in Japan even with the clean salkhov. The difference would still stay".
    I think (I hope) the journalist did report an incorrect version of what Yulia, or Ilia meant, because he is bringing her into this by saying "I agree with Yulia".

  14. #29
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    I want to say how far out of character it would be for Yulia to complain about judging being unfair. If that were her style then when asked about her flutz calls she could easily have said I think I'm doing a perfect lutz...but instead grunted and said oh the lutz!! She immediately followed up with saying judges should call everything and ALL skaters should not give the judges anything to criticize by presenting clean skating. She is her own worst critic and has never laid blame on judging. This was the same interview where her words were taken out of context when she said she doesn't think she's seen anyone do a clean lutz. Everyone went crazy and said she was referring to the whole figure skating community when in fact she was making a light hearted comment about the group she skates with during their mandatory lutz sessions at practice. I can't however comment on Ilya who is one of her coaches and probably largest proponents. I think I'll give him the benefit here since he said he agrees with her. I think both her and Ilya knew this was an uphill battle with Mao not only being better but it being her final skate. I think it's actually a show of respect contrary to some here!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    I want to say how far out of character it would be for Yulia to complain about judging being unfair. If that were her style then when asked about her flutz calls she could easily have said I think I'm doing a perfect lutz...but instead grunted and said oh the lutz!! She immediately followed up with saying judges should call everything and ALL skaters should not give the judges anything to criticize by presenting clean skating. She is her own worst critic and has never laid blame on judging. This was the same interview where her words were taken out of context when she said she doesn't think she's seen anyone do a clean lutz. Everyone went crazy and said she was referring to the whole figure skating community when in fact she was making a light hearted comment about the group she skates with during their mandatory lutz sessions at practice. I can't however comment on Ilya who is one of her coaches and probably largest proponents. I think I'll give him the benefit here since he said he agrees with her. I think both her and Ilya knew this was an uphill battle with Mao not only being better but it being her final skate. I think it's actually a show of respect contrary to some here!
    Yulia hasn't said ANYTHING about judging in Japan at all. Not even a word. So I don't know what's everyone talking about? She just said that even with clean free programm (clean salchow) she wouldn't have won there. That's all.

    Ilya on the other hand clearly meant Mao-Japan-Judging 'situation'. I can say that for sure after reading russian article. He clearly has not understood what Yulia meant or is just agreeing with different interview (probably Eteri's one).

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